Timeline for Should we burninate [chemistry]?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
43 events
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Mar 20, 2017 at 9:16 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
replaced http://meta.stackoverflow.com/ with https://meta.stackoverflow.com/
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Mar 7, 2017 at 17:05 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @KyleStrand while I believe you're right about Braiam not having English as a first language, I think that the weird fragments here are simply a stylistic choice. Braiam is perfectly capable of writing long, complex sentences in perfect (or at least good-enough-to-understand) English when he wishes to. And no, I'm not intentionally trying not to understand; if you understand, feel free to elaborate. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 17:01 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @MarkAmery I don't believe English is Braiam's first language, so to my taste your "please at least speak in sentences" and "cryptic fragments" comment come off a bit rude/dismissive. Successful communication requires some effort from both parties, and it honestly seems like you're intentionally trying not to understand what Braiam is trying to say. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:56 | comment | added | Mark Amery | "you argue that we need chemistry tag" - No, that's not quite what I've argued here. If there were no chemistry tag, I wouldn't much care whether one was created. I am arguing, though, that the tag has value that shouldn't be wantonly destroyed. We don't need pretty much any individual piece of content on Stack Overflow, but that doesn't mean that it's okay to arbitrarily destroy stuff. Applying a high standard of scrutiny to decisions to delete other people's work is a principle that I care strongly about. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:55 | comment | added | Mark Amery | "If you don't see a direct response to your previous comment..." - for goodness' sake, please write in sentences rather than cryptic fragments. I do not have the slightest clue what you are trying to express. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:53 | comment | added | Braiam | If you don't see a direct response to your previous comment... | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:51 | comment | added | Mark Amery | '"specific programming problems" == "problem that is unique to software development" If you don't see it...' - I have no idea what this is meant to mean. Please at least speak in sentences to give people a chance of understanding you. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:49 | comment | added | Braiam | "Problems do not require an exhibit of a failed solution in order to be practical, answerable, or unique to software development", yet you argue that we need chemistry tag... | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:48 | comment | added | Braiam | "specific programming problems" == "problem that is unique to software development" If you don't see it... | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:47 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @Braiam huh? Kyle hasn't "quoted" that at all, nor does the point of his that I'm contesting in any way follow from the section you have quoted from the help center. Problems do not require an exhibit of a failed solution in order to be practical, answerable, or unique to software development. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:45 | comment | added | Braiam | What Kyle says is quoting the help center: "a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development". Or if you want it more digested, lets try Tim Post's "Would it take a programmer to understand answers to this?" | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:30 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @KyleStrand - "In general we require questions about specific programming problems to already have some programming done" - assuming that by this you mean exhibiting the code of a failed or incomplete attempt at a solution in the question, then I strongly disagree. That's an old fight here. Look at the highest-upvoted questions on the site; most don't meet that standard (and would be much worse questions if they did). Some are one-liners! | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:28 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @MarkAmery Okay, if you break problems down that way, I'm not sure questions about the "determine the logic" step are ever on topic here. In general we require questions about specific programming problems to already have some programming done. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 16:26 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @GabeSechan If you say so. Here's a concrete example of a question that seems like it might fall under the umbrella of "computational linguistics questions that require domain knowledge", but which, indeed, was flagged and removed: meta.linguistics.stackexchange.com/q/497/2041 If the OP had the start of a corpus generation tool but was struggling with a specific programming road block, the question probably would have been on topic, but I'm not sure domain specific knowledge would have been necessary. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 15:53 | comment | added | Lundin | But it sounds as if there is not one specific problem, but rather several, unrelated problems: understanding the task, ask at chemistry.stackexchange.com, designing an optimal algorithm for the task, ask at cs.stackexchange.com, then implement it in some programming language, possibly on-topic on SO if specific enough. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 15:06 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @Lundin Sure (or you use tools that do those things for you, like regexes or parsing libraries). But at the level of abstraction that you're having to zoom out to here, it's not just all parsing problems that are the same, but all programming problems. "The approach is the same. You determine the logic your process has to follow, and then specify it using the syntax of your programming language." Just as true as your observation, but both points are clearly impractical; there are frequently useful things to be said about how to solve specific problems. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 14:59 | comment | added | Lundin | The approach is the same. You specify tokens and delimiters. You build up some sort of expression tree. You process it. You present the results. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 14:57 | comment | added | Mark Amery | "Parsing a chemical formula is not programatically different from any other form of parsing" - this seems like obvious nonsense to me, at least given any useful definition of "programatically different". The question of how to parse a chemical formula is clearly not a duplicate of a question about how to parse a URI, and the people who arrive at those questions from Google are going to do so because they want to parse the exact thing that the question is asking about. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 14:53 | comment | added | Lundin | Parsing a chemical formula is not programatically different from any other form of parsing. Lets say a mathematical equation, some reverse polish notation, a script language etc etc. The smallest set of smallest rings is a sheer algorithm problem that is more suitable for cs.stackexchange.com. Etc etc. Very few programmers make programs for programming's own sake. There's always an application with a purpose. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 0:28 | comment | added | Gabe Sechan | @KyleStrand All your doing is proving your utter ignorance of that field. You still think its about asking questions on linguistics. Its not- its programming questions that require special techniques and knowledge. It is absolutely worthy of a tag. If it isn't worth of a tag, neither are things like client-server. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 0:24 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @GabeSechan "Nothing" is? Piffle. Technologies (e.g. programming languages and environments) are clearly more relevant than problem domains that happen to have "known techniques" associated with them. By "known techniques," I assume you mean algorithmic approaches to common problems in the domain. But in most cases, I would expect questions that actually require this sort of algorithmic knowledge to be likely candidates for the "too broad" flag. Also, as noted in other comments, there is already scicomp.stackexchange.com, where such questions would probably be more appropriate. | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 0:18 | comment | added | Gabe Sechan | @KyleStrand THe field of computational linguistics assumes a certain set of known techniques and programming concepts. If that isn't worthy of a tag, nothing is | |
Mar 7, 2017 at 0:13 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @GabeSechan Every computer program is ultimately an effort to solve a real-world problem, unless it's (a) an exercise or dummy program meant to help someone learn or demonstrate a programming concept or (b) tooling or infrastructure to facilitate the writing of more programs. But the real-world problem domain doesn't actually provide anything more than circumstantial context for questions that are on-topic here. The fact that a particular problem arises in the context of computational linguistics may be worth mentioning in the question body, but that doesn't mean it's useful as a tag. | |
Mar 6, 2017 at 21:46 | comment | added | Tunaki | A missing point here, IMO, is that I cannot imagine an on-topic question on SO that would only be tagged [chemistry]. And from help: If the tag can’t work as the only tag on a question, it’s probably a meta-tag. Not a strict rule, but to keep in mind though. | |
Feb 23, 2017 at 7:14 | comment | added | usr1234567 | @GabeSechan Still, it wouldn't help to get answered when the tag [chemistry] was added. | |
Feb 23, 2017 at 7:12 | comment | added | Gabe Sechan | @usr1234567 ANd if the question is about how to implement a trigram model? Or how to correctly identify phonemes in Java? Then its a programming question. I'm not saying a comparisson of Hebrew and Italian would be on topic here, but a question like either of the above would be appropriate and appropriately tagged linguistics. | |
Feb 23, 2017 at 7:10 | comment | added | usr1234567 | @GabeSechan Probably linguistics.stackexchange.com is a better place for such question. SO is about programming questions. | |
Feb 23, 2017 at 7:02 | comment | added | Gabe Sechan | @usr1234567 are you aware there's entire field called computational linguistics? They give phds in it. There's a huge overlap of linguistics and programming. Questions in that field go from everything to how to handle RTL languages to natural language processing. I wouldn't be burninating that tag. | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 20:07 | comment | added | castletheperson | "Chemistry has nothing to do with programming. - is a bad reason to burninate." It's criteria number 2 in determining if something should be burninated. I think it's pretty relevant. | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 17:35 | comment | added | castletheperson | I don't think it's possible for someone to be an expert on [chemistry] within the domain of Stack Overflow. The questions span all kinds of programming languages, and the answers don't (or shouldn't) require background knowledge of chemistry in order to answer. | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 16:02 | comment | added | Jongware | @Braiam: "bueller? bueller? .. braiam? braiam" ;') As it is a comment on my comment, please move it as well? | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 13:46 | comment | added | Jongware | @Braiam: I'm going to move this comment to a more appropriate place: underneath the original post, rather than under one of the answers. Just a mo'. | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 13:42 | comment | added | Braiam | @RadLexus I would say "yes", it's like "how to parse html using an html parser". "How to parse X?" can do it without the X tag, since the structure of what's being parsed is fluid. "How to parse a sentence?" "How to parse a math equation?" "How to parse a mathematical identity?" etc. we would need many, many tags. BTW, that question is trying to use something akin to a tokenizer, not a parser designed to parse chem formulae. The answer is using regex, mind you. | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 12:44 | comment | added | Braiam | @MarkAmery well, why not having [economics] tag too, or [administration], or [operational-research], or [econometrics], or [physics]? All those use programming one way or another. | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 12:32 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @ChristianGollhardt I agree. Done. | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 12:27 | comment | added | Christian Gollhardt | I think we need a better tag wiki then | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 12:27 | comment | added | Braiam | @YvetteColomb lack of punctuation: what has to do "what you use the code for?" to a software developer? | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 12:25 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @Braiam I'm not arguing that simply because code is being used in a particular industry, questions about it should have that industry's tag. A question like "How do I make the title pink on my chemistry website?" is not a chemistry-related question and shouldn't be tagged as one. But other questions - while still being programming questions - are innately related to particular industry, the one about parsing chemical formulae being a good example. It's that class of question that I think benefits from having industry- and domain-specific tags - ones where the domain certainly does matter. | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 12:23 | comment | added | user3956566 | @Braiam that sentence is a little confusing. A typo? | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 12:20 | comment | added | Braiam | So... what has to do what you use the code for to a software developer? | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 12:13 | comment | added | usr1234567 | Well, [finance], [accounting] and [linguistics] should be burninated for sure, too. | |
Feb 4, 2017 at 12:06 | history | edited | Mark Amery | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
oops
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Feb 4, 2017 at 11:44 | history | answered | Mark Amery | CC BY-SA 3.0 |