Skip to main content
19 events
when toggle format what by license comment
Dec 25, 2016 at 17:58 comment added Jeff I think the thing is that it being one user isn't what's causing Mark to want to change it - it's what's making him hesitate to do so. Mark's within his rights to go and edit them out, but the fact that it's just one person complicates things as it may result in drama - anticipating that and trying to prevent it makes a lot of sense to me.
Dec 25, 2016 at 15:58 comment added Mark Amery @TylerH some points in response to yours: I unfortunately have no mechanism to address Peter (at any length) without a Meta post; the fact that one user is almost-solely responsible for adding these links is not relevant to me thinking that they shouldn't be added, merely to my response; and given that the comments/answers/voting indicate a near-unanimous consensus that most of these links are at best pointless (your personal opinion) and at worst actively harmful, I think I'm fully justified in acting.
Dec 25, 2016 at 5:53 comment added TylerH However, it really probably isn't that big a deal for Mark to just address the user on his own even without consulting Meta. The best case scenario is the user stops. The worst case is the user keeps doing it and then Mark can come to meta to ask. But individual users addressing the actions of other individuals happens all the time, and there's probably a decent percentage of success when users take that avenue first.
Dec 25, 2016 at 5:50 comment added TylerH @Jeff But the edits are in a grey area between bad and good, so Mark doesn't feel justified in just taking it on by himself without backing from Meta. So, again... what's really the issue here? That a user is editing posts or that another user is annoyed by that user's edits?
Dec 25, 2016 at 5:48 comment added TylerH @Jeff Again, that's making the assumption that what Peter is doing is wrong. Even though I personally wouldn't approve edits like this, I don't think they're particularly harmful. Before we talk about what Mark should do with regard to Peter's edits, we should talk about whether Mark should do anything in the first place. At this point I'm leaning toward no; half the issue Mark presents seems to be that it's one user doing it, which is not inherently a problem or something worth addressing. It seems like Mark things these edits are stupid and wants to just tell Peter to stop.
Dec 24, 2016 at 19:42 comment added Jeff From what I can tell, I think you're misunderstanding (in the comments) Mark's point. If this were 50,000 users, there would be no question that just editing the pointless links out would be fine. Most of them probably wouldn't notice and the world would move on. Because it's one user, it makes it a very different matter - because it could be seen as targeting them, because it could result in a very nasty dispute, but also because it provides a possible separate recourse - Peter could see this, see the error of their ways and change their behaviour.
Dec 24, 2016 at 2:20 comment added TylerH @MarkAmery The difference there is a user was introducing harmful edits that made improper use of a feature. You were fixing a bunch of objective errors. Here, what the user is doing is not objectively bad, and in fact may even be good (at least in some cases). At best, it's an ambivalent edit, and so the question really remains: "why does it bother you so much"?
Dec 23, 2016 at 19:33 comment added Mark Amery And while there's an argument to be had about whether seeking out edits to revert by looking in Peter's activity history (which I don't intend to do) would be bad (though it's certainly not clear that it would be against the rules - I've done the same thing with another user before and my efforts were highly appreciated by the community and mods; I certainly didn't get suspended), there's no such argument to be made about editing posts as I come across them.
Dec 23, 2016 at 19:24 comment added Mark Amery @TylerH As I've already said, I come across edits of this type by Peter constantly (not quite daily, but more than once a week) and no other user makes this kind of edit. Yes, if they were by any other user, I'd revert them. No, I'm not going to revert them en masse yet because I know that they are in fact all from one user, and I want to give him the chance to answer before I start reverting. I fail to see how that choice indicates that I have a "problem" with Peter; I don't know him and we have no history, but I have no reason to think that he's anything but a well-meaning contributor.
Dec 23, 2016 at 19:22 comment added TylerH @MarkAmery It doesn't matter that it's one person. Are the edits bad or are they good? What if it were 10 people doing it instead of 1? It may not be the case, but it is sounding a little like you have a problem with Peter and not with what he's doing. And no, you're not within your rights to target a user with any kind of behavior. If it comes to light that you are following a user around reverting all his edits, you'll be suspended.
Dec 23, 2016 at 19:10 comment added Mark Amery Of course, "edit wars" usually concern single posts. If things did go down the (extremely silly) path that I describe in my previous comment, the mods would face the need to adjudicate a dispute of an unprecedented kind, spanning thousands of posts and policy for future edits. Ideally, that shouldn't be their job; it should be the community's. Hence, this Meta discussion.
Dec 23, 2016 at 19:08 comment added Mark Amery As for the "within his rights" question, that's debatable, as I've said, since I'm equally within my rights to remove these links when I see them. If he continues to add them and I begin removing them even when he is the user responsible for editing them in, then we're straight into Edit War territory, and at that point we're both expected to raise mod flags and it is the mods' responsibility to adjudicate the dispute.
Dec 23, 2016 at 19:05 comment added Mark Amery @TylerH my reason for special treatment of Peter here is that I've seen scores of these edits, 100% of them by him (since no other prolific editor adds these kind of links), and it seems rude to revert a particular user's edits en masse, even if they weren't found by deliberate targeting of that user, without first seeking consensus that this is okay and giving that user a chance to put forth a case in defence of the edits (if they wish to).
Dec 23, 2016 at 19:02 comment added TylerH @MarkAmery If you are thinking that "were this any other user, I'd just do X", that tells me it's not about the action anymore, but about the person... which is bad. If this action is problematic/shouldn't be done, then it should be so because of the action, not because of who's doing it. To your second point, a "meta consensus" is non-binding, and if the user in question feels vindicated in his edits, he very well could refuse to change his behavior. So long as moderators don't disagree, then he is within his rights to just keep doing what he's doing.
Dec 23, 2016 at 19:01 comment added Mark Amery The sensible way for things to proceed is clearly to achieve a community consensus and for all parties to agree to abide by that consensus, without any men with sticks getting involved. I'd've been happy to drop the whole matter if the community had been against me and said that it liked having these links (that's why I sought community feedback here), and I expect and hope that Peter will likewise have no problem ceasing to make these edits in light of the apparent consensus against them here.
Dec 23, 2016 at 18:59 comment added Mark Amery The "rules" question is one I hope not to have to get into. I've deliberately refrained from reverting Peter's edits when I've seen them so far because I wanted to at some point put this question to Meta (something that I kept on forgetting to do for many months), but if they weren't added by him I'd likely edit the links out of most of the posts that he's added to. That would soon lead absurdity and require mod action, though, since we're supposed to refrain from edit warring and instead let content disputes be resolved by the mods. Hey mods, want 50000 flags?
Dec 23, 2016 at 16:24 comment added TylerH @JanDoggen Yes, if it's an esoteric or even uncommon acronym or abbreviation, it should be spelled out on first use, with the acronym or abbreviation in parentheses following it. Then you can use the abbreviation or acronym only from there on out. Linking to it on first use is OK, too, I suppose, instead of spelling out and parenthetically explaining.
Dec 23, 2016 at 16:18 comment added Jan Doggen One exception would be uncommon abbreviations. I just edited a HTPC link into a Super User question. I do either this or expand the abbreviation between parentheses.
Dec 23, 2016 at 16:17 history answered TylerH CC BY-SA 3.0