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Sep 15, 2016 at 21:27 comment added Shog9 Please understand, @null: I wasn't trying to be glib with that "6-9 months" comment. The initial questions on SO - and on pretty much every new platform added to SO since - tended toward the big, popular problems that everyone encounters at some point and half of everyone already knows the answer to. You could find most of the same answers on existing forums, existing Q&A sites, in the official docs... It took months to gather that long tail of errata that few people care about but in aggregate actually solves a big chunk of folks' daily problems.
Sep 15, 2016 at 15:27 comment added numaroth @TylerH You get +2 rep for any approved edit. In other words you get +2 rep for adding stuff as well, so there is no incentive to reduce clutter instead of adding fluff.
Sep 15, 2016 at 9:33 comment added NoDataDumpNoContribution " canonical content." Canonical, example centric content, you do not find elsewhere already in sufficient quality. And as a wish: well organized canonical, example centric content which doesn't exist elsewhere.
Sep 15, 2016 at 8:31 comment added null Do you guys have a plan? @Shog9♦ What if "Simply lowering the bar to changes" does not go a long way? I sometimes ask questions on SO because of missing documentation. I rarely get good answers to those if any at all. I lost faith in SO docs not because of a broken rep system but because it doesn't work as advertised. Why would somebody go to docs in "6 to 9 months" to write down what would be necessary to answer a question that exists today? The bar for answering a question is already on the ground, how could docs have a lower one?
Sep 15, 2016 at 0:46 comment added Shog9 Simply lowering the bar to changes may go a long way there, @Nicol. Hard to tell if that'll work at this point; my impression is that it took 6 to 9 months before questions on SO exhausted the easy stuff and started really getting into the juicy edge-cases.
Sep 15, 2016 at 0:42 comment added Nicol Bolas @Shog9: "the problems being targeted here are more in the missing / incomplete / incomprehensible docs camp" And yet, there's no reason to expect the system to accomplish that. Things with dysfunctional documentation get that way usually because it's not widely known and/or used. So how will Docs.SO change that?
Sep 14, 2016 at 23:44 comment added Shog9 "canonical" is overused and misused (to mean... decent? comprehensive?) It's pretty unlikely SO Docs will ever be canon for a great many topics; @null is correct, the problems being targeted here are more in the missing / incomplete / incomprehensible docs camp.
Sep 14, 2016 at 23:03 comment added null "focusing on the actual reason for SO Docs: canonical content." Isn't the actual reason for docs missing content?
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:56 comment added Lamak @Magisch Those changes need to be approved, and as always, we need to trust the users that can approve them to spot this kind of things. I would ask you to lend me that magic crystal ball where you are watching this things happening though, since you are so certain as to what's coming
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:54 comment added Magisch @Lamak Would you feel okay for recieving rep from every upvote for an answer where you just re-worded the grammar in such a way as to elongate the sentences significantly for no gain? No? Thats significantly worse, and thats what will happen.
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:53 comment added Magisch In essence that means we'll be seeing lots and lots of fluff added to examples already way too big which will mean more browser clutter, less performance, and less overall usability. In the current system, pending a quick change for the opposite direction, docs is poised to die the death of a thousand cuts.
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:53 comment added Lamak @Magisch and it is rewarding them. Do you think it would be ok to edit minor things on an answer or a question in SO and get rep for every upvote there?. I still feel dirty for receiving rep for some upvotes on an example I edited lightly
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:51 comment added Magisch @Lamak The right change should reward proper editing, that is in most cases removing just as much from any given example as adding. Making added characters a metric was fundamentally wrong imo. I'd venture so far as to say for nearly all examples most edits adding lots of text are actively harmful. Now these are the only thing the system rewards anymore.
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:47 comment added Lamak @Magisch every type of incentive can be gamed, doesn't mean that this change isn't the right one
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:47 comment added Magisch @TylerH 2 rep for an edit is so insignificant as to be meaningless considering we're talking hundreds for edits that make the example longer artificially. If it was 20 or 30, maybe, but thats still a big maybe.
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:46 comment added TylerH @Magisch What do you mean? You even get +2 reputation for deleting stuff!
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:45 comment added Magisch @Lamak Yeah. Assume that you can choose by artificially making an example longer and getting hundreds of rep or do the right thing and get maybe 2. That sets a terrible incentive. But I guess thats just one of these things that need to be seen in live to be changed
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:44 comment added Lamak @Magisch as I understand it, you receive the +2 for an approved edit. It just limits the +5 that you were getting for every upvote on the example, which makes total sense
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:43 comment added Magisch I'm a little worried about how the new incentive system encourages making examples even larger and doesn't reward housekeeping at all. There will be nothing canonical about these, just lots of pitfighting over edits.
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:30 comment added ppeterka there are more features in the pipeline that should be able to assist with that type of example - now that is something I'm eagerly waiting for...
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:28 comment added ppeterka I hope Docs will not turn out to embrace such examples - or at least retains a way to have to-the-point, more code-less talk examples. I'm fully in for that cheatsheet approach - but there are numerous already existing resources and platforms available for the walls of text teaching and preaching kind of stuff. Do we need another one? OTOH I could imagine a site structured in the Docs way, but gathering the links of multiple similar tutorials into one place, each competing with the others by voting - a love child of Reddit and Docs. (Ain't gonna happen as it is 3rd party content...)
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:18 comment added Travis J @ppeterka - I agree it isn't fully fixed, but there are more features in the pipeline that should be able to assist with that type of example. In addition, hopefully the structure that comes out in the next few waves will prevent that type of all encompassing content being created. Conversely, just to consider, perhaps the Java Arrays example is what users actually want out of Docs? Food for thought.
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:16 comment added ppeterka The Java Arrays example is still so huge, there is danger that when it collapses, people will get stuck under the debris... (But at least probably less people will try and poke it...)
Sep 14, 2016 at 19:14 history answered Travis J CC BY-SA 3.0