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Feb 9, 2023 at 16:15 comment added Karl Knechtel Nice to see that it apparently only takes six and a half years to get a simple CSS change implemented and signed off on, as long as there's a clear accessibility issue. Perhaps cosmetic changes that everyone agrees about could get done within a century.
Feb 9, 2023 at 15:32 history edited CatijaStaff
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Aug 17, 2018 at 20:13 comment added Rory O'Kane On 2018-08-17, underlines were added to links in questions, answers, and comments on many Stack Exchange sites: Meta Stack Exchange – Underline appearing for hyperlinks
Sep 15, 2016 at 12:33 comment added user692942 I think this is definitely needed on comments it's very difficult to pick out a link from the standard comment text without some visual indicator it is a hyperlink like an underline for example.
Jun 20, 2016 at 16:05 vote accept aardrian
Jun 18, 2016 at 16:12 comment added Mikhail V I know. I speak of links in post text, namely inline ones. And such is common for SO posts, long, short, adjacent links.
Jun 18, 2016 at 15:41 comment added aardrian @MikhailV There are two styles for links in my screenshots (and proposed CSS). Underlined in questions/answers/comments, not underlined everywhere else (navigation, sidebar, etc).
Jun 18, 2016 at 15:39 comment added Mikhail V A design solution could be 2 styles for links: one for inline links and second for standalone links, so something which is more important, like Table of contents section of the document. The links should be put in a separate list in this case I suppose.
Jun 18, 2016 at 15:31 comment added Mikhail V Thanks for screenshots. So for me it looks bad, those links are like bricks hanging on the lines. Surely more visible for navigation, but makes text not readable. And the look? surely it must count in this case.
Jun 18, 2016 at 5:42 answer added Mikhail V timeline score: 1
Jun 18, 2016 at 2:39 comment added aardrian Are you talking about the Chrome screen shot? "1998 and CSS 2" are underlined. Click the image to "zoom in" just in case it is an issue of sub-pixel rendering on your display as a result of a scaled image..
Jun 18, 2016 at 2:02 comment added Troyen What's special about the "1998 and CSS 2" that makes Chrome not underline them when it underlines the links below?
Jun 18, 2016 at 1:54 comment added aardrian Original question updated with screen shots from Chrome, Edge, Firefox. All using the CSS I propose above as well. Of course, we can just add the same "underline" styles on meta but in a matching blue.
Jun 18, 2016 at 1:51 history edited aardrian CC BY-SA 3.0
Added screenshots based on a request.
Jun 17, 2016 at 23:59 comment added Mikhail V Well, underline is not the worst solution, but when I tried to customize the look, there were issues with stroke color and distance ore something in Firefox. And standard solid stroke unter text makes it not readable and surely ... ugly of design. Even bold with some good font would be better. Could you make exact screenshot of your idea?
Jun 15, 2016 at 17:28 comment added aardrian @Alex That is not actually a radical suggestion. It has been tried many times over the years on many projects, but there is the issue of separate-but-equal, additional maintenance costs for maintenance, failure to update, and the fact those approaches rarely work for the people you are trying to help.
Jun 15, 2016 at 15:10 comment added Alex @aardrian Radical suggestion: Make a custom accessibility style for those that cannot participate on SO without it, let those who need it opt in.
Jun 15, 2016 at 13:33 answer added 700 Software timeline score: 7
Jun 15, 2016 at 10:21 comment added CalvT To maintain the clean look, and also for kicks, I've had the following CSS applied on SO for awhile now to add a underline that slides in on hover: .post-menu a, .post-text a, .comment-copy a{ position: relative; } .post-menu a:after, .post-text a:after, .comment-copy a:after{ display: block; position: absolute; left: 0; bottom: 0px; width: 0; height: 1px; background-color: #444; content: ""; transition: width 0.2s; } .post-menu a:hover:after, .post-text a:hover:after, .comment-copy a:hover:after{ width: 100%; } (this also underlines the flag, edit and share links)
Jun 14, 2016 at 12:25 comment added aardrian All, I clarified the opening sentence, added a proposed CSS code block.
Jun 14, 2016 at 12:24 history edited aardrian CC BY-SA 3.0
Clarified opening sentence, provided explicit suggested code sample.
Jun 14, 2016 at 10:44 answer added Toby Speight timeline score: 35
Jun 14, 2016 at 4:14 comment added Daniel Storm I'm surprised at the amount of up votes this has received. I like the clean look.
Jun 14, 2016 at 4:04 comment added Chris Baker Such a controversy is almost comical to watch unfold, on a site where the user-generated links are all decorated with a bottom border.
Jun 14, 2016 at 2:33 comment added aardrian @Rob I am using the WCAG guidelines as my base, as that tends to remove personal preference and has legal standing. That is not opinion. Google gets away with it because nobody has sued them (yet). That is not opinion. I only suggested underlines as it is easy. That is opinion and based on experience. My frustration comes from poorly understood reference materials and arguments for personal preference over inclusiveness. That is a reaction to opinions framed as facts.
Jun 14, 2016 at 2:23 comment added Rob Mod @aardrian If you re-read my comment, I am not arguing for or against your change. I don't mind either way. I was commenting on the fact that you are presenting an opinion as fact, and that your suggestion is clearly the correct and only solution to the problem; everyone else is indisputably wrong. The fact that you say google is inaccessible, when their entire business is based on showing hyperlinks, brings in to question just how important your metrics for accessibility are, and further shows how things are not as black and white as your say.
Jun 14, 2016 at 2:20 comment added aardrian @Rob Adding accessibility allows people to participate who cannot otherwise, while (if you believe the single study linked and its application to this site, which implies you read it) possibly only reducing usability for some. In short, you are arguing for keeping a barrier in place to block access for some for the potential comfort of a few. Might as well start filling in all those curb cuts.
Jun 14, 2016 at 1:51 comment added Rob Mod @aardrian Not to mention the fact that improving accessibility for one set of users may actively decrease the accessibility for others, as illustrated by the linked studies that underlining links makes it harder for people to parse.
Jun 14, 2016 at 1:49 comment added Rob Mod @aardrian Do you realise the meta is a site for discussion? I haven't seen a single comment from you that hasn't included essentially "No, your opinion is wrong, this subjective set of guidelines is law. If you don't adhere to it you are wrong". That's simply not the case. If not using underlines was such a huge and unforgivable sin, one would imagine that google, a site that is essentially a hyperlink machine, would no longer exist. That's not the case, however. The suggestions you've given are just that: suggestions. There are other approaches for accessibility.
Jun 14, 2016 at 1:40 comment added aardrian @AaronHall The irony here is that I consider this site to be incredibly ugly (it's actually why I avoided joining for a while, it's just a smear of awful). Arguably, underlines cannot make it worse.
Jun 14, 2016 at 0:34 comment added Aaron Hall Mod @aardrian ugly matters. Elegance matters. Saying it doesn't matter will not make it not so.
Jun 14, 2016 at 0:23 answer added ricksmt timeline score: 36
Jun 14, 2016 at 0:16 comment added user207421 Can you please not do this. The Sun Java forums never had underlines, and nobody missed them. Then Oracle introduced them after the takeover: it was manifestly a backward step.
Jun 13, 2016 at 23:50 comment added aardrian @AaronHall 1. I already wrote a bookmarklet to underline links, which I pasted above, and which helps no one but the user.. 2. You make an assumption about 'accessibility tools'. I leave it to you to research whether that is good or bad. 3. Your opinion about 'ugly' has no bearing on accessibility standards nor the people who cannot see the links in questions/answers.
Jun 13, 2016 at 23:37 comment added Aaron Hall Mod I find the underlines ugly and hard to read. I also find it hard to imagine that accessability tools have any trouble distinguishing well-formed html. If you absolutely need underlines, you can skin just about any site with a plugin like stylish: makeuseof.com/tag/… - and since so many sites don't underline links, you'd probably be better off figuring out how to do it yourself and make the rest of the web more suited to your particular needs too.
Jun 13, 2016 at 20:34 comment added aardrian No, it would not. The mouse cursor is defined in the CSS sample above, so that may conflict with a user setting. Also, it is commonly-understood among accessibility practitioners that relying on the browser outline alone is insufficient for indicating keyboard focus. Browsers don't always get defaults right, like placeholder text with too-low contrast.
Jun 13, 2016 at 18:44 comment added Yakk - Adam Nevraumont The mouse-over cursor change qualifies as a non-color/contrast based information that something is a link, no? And keyboard focus (at least on meta) gives me a box around the link. So, wouldn't just increased contrast pass the accessibility test?
Jun 13, 2016 at 14:31 answer added Cody GrayMod timeline score: -8
Jun 13, 2016 at 13:57 comment added Cody Gray Mod So, your contention is that readability is not relevant, so long as something looks like a link? I'm sorry, we've moved away from this idea of "looks like a link." You'll notice that many of the top web companies in the world do not underline links on their pages. I doubt they're simply ignorant of accessibility concerns. Rather, they find other ways to make their pages accessible without sacrificing readability.
Jun 13, 2016 at 13:52 comment added aardrian @CodyGray Yes, better contrast can help. As for volumes of studies, please provide some (about links, not underlines as a way to add emphasis). I work in this space (usability, accessibility), run studies myself, and know that underlines provide link scent that color alone does not.
Jun 13, 2016 at 13:49 comment added Cody Gray Mod They absolutely do not. There are volumes of studies that indicate that underlining text makes it much more difficult to read. I'm not trying to diminish the importance of accessibility, but there are other routes than underlining.
Jun 13, 2016 at 13:48 comment added aardrian @CodyGray I appreciate your opinion, but years of usability and accessibility studies say, on the whole, the opposite.While whomever defined the styles may have felt that way as well, in my brief time here I already know of a case where someone could not contribute as a result.
Jun 13, 2016 at 13:42 comment added Cody Gray Mod Underlining makes them hard to read, presumably that's why they are not underlined in the current style. But there is little excuse for not underlining them on hover.
Jun 13, 2016 at 11:19 comment added aardrian @Stéphane If you are from the SO team, can you tell me why links were explicitly excluded? I have experience in this world, may be able to 'consult' on options. Also, I am suggesting underlines as well as a contrast update, partially because meeting the letter of the WCAG 'law' is the bare minimum.
Jun 13, 2016 at 11:17 comment added aardrian Apologies, I should have been clearer that my request is for Stack Overflow main site. Post edited (not by me) to clarify.
Jun 13, 2016 at 11:14 history edited JJJ CC BY-SA 3.0
"this site" has confused at least 2 people by now
Jun 13, 2016 at 11:13 comment added JJJ @Troyseph The question is about the main site, not Meta.
Jun 13, 2016 at 10:31 comment added Troyseph Am I missing something? Hyperlinks look underlined to me, with a dotted line!
Jun 13, 2016 at 10:29 comment added PM 2Ring On a related note, plenty of newbies don't seem to realise that the edit and share links under their post are clickable. I think underlining those links or putting them on a contrasting background would help.
Jun 13, 2016 at 9:54 answer added xDaizu timeline score: -22
Jun 13, 2016 at 9:11 history edited StéphaneStaffMod
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Jun 13, 2016 at 9:09 comment added Stéphane StaffMod We'll take a look at the contrast of the links in posts. I can't tell you "we'll use underlines" (we'd have to make sure it looks good, that said I like this style) but I can assure you that we'll make sure we'll find a solution that provide enough contrast between links and regular text.
Jun 13, 2016 at 9:02 history edited Sklivvz
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Jun 13, 2016 at 1:35 comment added aardrian @theB I already do that via a ookmarklet: javascript:(function(){var a=document.createElement('style'),b;document.head.appendChild(a);b=a.sheet;b.insertRule('a[href]{text-decoration:underline !important}',0);})() But that is not a fix, just a hack for broken styles.
Jun 13, 2016 at 0:54 comment added theB Workaround: User style with a, a:hover, a:active { text-decoration: underline !important; }
Jun 13, 2016 at 0:09 comment added Oriol Related: Underline links inside code blocks
Jun 12, 2016 at 23:17 comment added aardrian @RadLexus, that's handy for an iPad user, but not everyone is on an iPad. Changing one's hardware instead of removing a single line of CSS doesn't seem like a good fit.
Jun 12, 2016 at 23:16 comment added aardrian @Glorfindel, that one is from 2009 and was declined with no explanation. It is related, but sadly offers no clues on why this is still the case on SO.
Jun 12, 2016 at 21:01 comment added Jongware My iPad is in two minds about this. Despite the CSS, all hyperlinks are underlined - but not its second part when they span over a single line. So half and half, but maybe that's close enough?
Jun 12, 2016 at 20:04 comment added Glorfindel Reletad question on Meta SE.
Jun 12, 2016 at 19:47 history asked aardrian CC BY-SA 3.0