Timeline for How can we support languages other than English in Stack Overflow's chat... And should we?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
46 events
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Jun 1, 2016 at 12:23 | comment | added | Patrice | @telkitty im not saying anything about non english speaking RO. I'm talking about how an RO for a non English language has no official mderators from the site to validate what he does. If he starts pushing against every "offensive" flag put on comments in his language, how will the english speaking moderator make sure this is done properly. You're SERIOUSLY missing my point | |
Jun 1, 2016 at 8:36 | comment | added | DavidG | @Telkitty Actually I am pretty active in chat and I'm perfectly aware how it works. But we are talking about SO chat, not the other SE sites. So now perhaps you can do the maths instead? | |
Jun 1, 2016 at 3:16 | comment | added | TelKitty | @Patrice I don't know many room owners who can't communicate in English at all. Yes, it's a bit tricky to find the right room owners for those no English chats, but if you can find moderators for foreign language sites, you should have no problem find owners for those foreign language chats. | |
Jun 1, 2016 at 3:11 | comment | added | TelKitty | @DavidG you are not on chats much, are you? There are plenty of active chatrooms on SO, each has more than 10 room owners: Javascript, PHP, C++, C#, Android, IOS(NSChat), Ruby to name a few. Those alone account for nearly 100 room owners. Then you have other Stackexchange chats: Game Development, Root Access, Meta Tavern, RPG, Charcoal HQ, Mos Eisley(scifi), The Bridge(Arqade), Electrical Engineering etc etc. There are tons of other less active rooms too. You can just do the maths. | |
May 31, 2016 at 17:21 | comment | added | Patrice | So.... It isnt that no room owner is trustworthy. It's that in a non English chatroom, if an RO is untrustworthy, mods CAN'T realize it (or handle flags in their absence).it's a simple matter of moderating what is being posted On this site. | |
May 31, 2016 at 12:39 | comment | added | DavidG | Also, we may have a "couple of hundred" (where did you get that number from?) room owners, but how many of those can speak Chinese/Spanish/Romanian/French/etc. There are more languages than room owners. | |
May 31, 2016 at 12:37 | comment | added | DavidG | Anyone can create a room and become a room owner. So we trust them all implicitly? Or do you think we need to moderate who can create rooms now? | |
May 31, 2016 at 12:31 | comment | added | Cerbrus | We're not saying none can be trusted. We're saying not all can be trusted, which makes mod intervention necessary, at times. | |
May 31, 2016 at 12:27 | comment | added | TelKitty | I don't know what happened to you in the past, but I feel sorry for you if you trust people so little. | |
May 31, 2016 at 12:26 | comment | added | TelKitty | There are at least a couple hundred of room owners on SO/SE, are you telling me none of them can be trusted?? | |
May 31, 2016 at 8:14 | comment | added | Cerbrus | "Room owners can not be trusted" And Magisch isn't just saying that out of paranoia. Past events have proven that statement to be true, sadly. | |
May 31, 2016 at 7:59 | comment | added | Magisch | @Telkitty Thats the crux of the issue. Issues have to be able to be escalated, moderators are who is escalated to. Room owners can not be trusted to maintain non-offensive content in their own room. Some room owners definitely cannot. | |
May 31, 2016 at 5:03 | comment | added | Cerbrus | Once again, you're missing the context of this meta question. If "Room Owners" were enough, we wouldn't be having this discussion. External moderation has proven necessary time and time again. | |
May 31, 2016 at 2:31 | comment | added | TelKitty | But room owners already have the power to remove offensive messages and suspend offenders. You don't really need a moderator for that. | |
May 30, 2016 at 22:49 | comment | added | DavidG | Additionally, it's not just about understanding the language, you also need to be competent enough get the nuances and colloquialisms of that language, this is why auto-translating it not an option. | |
May 30, 2016 at 22:48 | comment | added | DavidG | "Accurately handling" flags covers a multitude of actions, from freezing the room down to simply removing the offending message. Unless the mods speak the language in which that message was posted, then there are very few options left. It's just not possible to have people online at all times that speak all the languages involved AND have those people trusted as moderators too. | |
May 30, 2016 at 13:31 | comment | added | Cerbrus | I mean suspending the users that were flagged. If the messages aren't in English, mods won't be able to accurately, without a doubt identify whether the flagged message was insulting someone or not. Once again, That is the problem this question is looking for an answer to. | |
May 30, 2016 at 12:54 | comment | added | TelKitty | 'Accurately handle', you mean 'freezing the room' by any chance? Because that's really giving the right treatment to any specific problem ... drop the earth temperature to minus 273.15 degrees Celsius, all problems will go away! NOT | |
May 30, 2016 at 10:51 | comment | added | Cerbrus | @Telkitty: When flags pop up in English rooms, moderators can accurately handle the case, should it prove necessary. Moderators can not handle non-English flags. That is why an occasional flag isn't as much of a problem in English rooms as it is in non-English rooms. Now I am the one that doesn't want to listen? | |
May 30, 2016 at 8:47 | comment | added | TelKitty | All I am saying is that there is a non-English room existing for years and JS room has been having problem even for longer period of time, but it has been given a chance every single time. You choose to not read what you don't want to know. The discussion is over because apparently you don't want to listen to what other people are saying. | |
May 30, 2016 at 6:31 | comment | added | Cerbrus | All I'm saying is that it's been proven time and time again that simply allowing non-English rooms doesn't work. It's problematic, to say the least. | |
May 30, 2016 at 1:33 | comment | added | DavidG | Cyber criminals? Wow, what a way to go overboard! You seem to be so wrapped up in some belief that we are saying that non English speakers are evil to actually see what we are saying. | |
May 29, 2016 at 16:43 | comment | added | TelKitty | @DavidG read above comments, because this was what you were implying too. | |
May 29, 2016 at 16:42 | comment | added | TelKitty | Going a step further, it's also about how well users are trusted. What you are suggesting is almost saying, you @Cerbrus, me are cyber criminals who have tendency to break various rules on this site, and room owners are corrupted, incompetent fools who can't handle the situations. So we should not trust that any room can function normally without inference of a moderator because useless room owners can not handle our criminal intends. I feel very insulted by this thought. | |
May 29, 2016 at 16:32 | comment | added | TelKitty | Then give carefully selected room owner the power to handle flags? All I am hearing is that 'we only trust moderators, all other room owners are untrustworthy scumbag who must not be trusted to handle flags.' This all come down to a question of trust. It's understandable that humans have fears for things that they do not understand, but most great things come out of breaking this fear. | |
May 28, 2016 at 20:53 | comment | added | Cerbrus | @Telkitty: The problem is that rooms do generate flags, even when Room Owners are present. Those flags need tob e handles by moderators. If the room isn't in English, moderators can only close the room to resolve the flag. | |
May 28, 2016 at 3:36 | comment | added | Warren Dew | As long as the room is shut down when the owner isn't there, that might work. Does that seem reasonable to you? | |
May 28, 2016 at 3:19 | comment | added | TelKitty | Rooms are generally moderated by room owners not moderators. | |
May 27, 2016 at 16:54 | comment | added | Cerbrus | @Telkitty: The rooms you mentioned are in English and can easily be moderated by available site staff, should it prove necessary. Non-English rooms can't be moderated by site staff. That's the problem. | |
May 27, 2016 at 14:18 | comment | added | DavidG | One issue has nothing to do with the other. Solving the problems in those rooms has nothing to do with language (at least in terms of it being non-English) | |
May 27, 2016 at 14:10 | comment | added | TelKitty | LOL, are you serious? JS room and C++ room have been given chance after chance, and any room in any other language has been 1 strike out. Isn't it a bit hypocritical for you to tell me that it doesn't work? Why? Because it has been given less chance? | |
May 27, 2016 at 14:05 | comment | added | Cerbrus | It doesn't work. This issue has been popping up over and over again. That's exactly why something has to change. | |
May 27, 2016 at 14:03 | comment | added | TelKitty | All I am saying is that it can work. Which of the active chats is not problematic at the times anyways. They ALL are every now and then. Life is full of problems, it does not mean we should stop existing and commit suicides. | |
May 27, 2016 at 13:56 | comment | added | Cerbrus | @Telkitty: the whole reason this meta question exists, is that there are non-English rooms that are problematic. It happens to work for that one room, which is great, but just allowing non-English rooms is no longer an option. This question is asking for alternative ideas. That aside, a room with less than 10 messages per week is hardly a good example of a functioning room. | |
May 27, 2016 at 13:48 | history | edited | TelKitty | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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May 27, 2016 at 13:47 | comment | added | DavidG | "Often" is not good enough though. Sometimes things need to be dealt with right now. | |
May 27, 2016 at 13:45 | comment | added | TelKitty | Please read what I have just said again, IMHO it's okay to have a chat in a language iff the room has at least one responsible and trustworthy owner in that language who is on often. | |
May 27, 2016 at 13:39 | comment | added | DavidG | Like I said above, just because something exists already doesn't make it OK. There have been other non-English chat rooms that HAVE cause problems. And the RO in the Chinese room isn't online 24 hours a day. | |
May 27, 2016 at 13:32 | history | edited | TelKitty | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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May 27, 2016 at 13:26 | comment | added | TelKitty | You are the one missing the point. The question is basically: should SO allow languages other than English in the chats because it might cause problems when it's hard to moderator. My answer is: there is already a Chinese chat on SO for years and it never caused any problems, mainly because room owner is a Chinese speaker and taking care of things. | |
May 27, 2016 at 13:11 | comment | added | DavidG | I was using hyperbole to demonstrate a point which you obviously missed. | |
May 27, 2016 at 13:07 | comment | added | TelKitty | I would like to see you start a room to talk about selling drugs and I will bet that it will be closed down within a day's time because SO does not support selling drugs, especially illegal ones. Plenty of chat users get suspended for talking about things that are not allowed on SO chats. | |
May 27, 2016 at 12:56 | comment | added | DavidG | Because it's just a comment with another example of non-English chat. Also, just because someone is talking in another language doesn't mean it's supported. If I create a room to talk about selling drugs, does that mean SO support that too? | |
May 27, 2016 at 12:50 | comment | added | TelKitty | Why is it not? I mean language(s) other than English is already sort of supported and there is at least one chatroom with main language other than English? | |
May 27, 2016 at 12:43 | comment | added | DavidG | This isn't an answer to the question... | |
May 27, 2016 at 12:36 | history | answered | TelKitty | CC BY-SA 3.0 |