Timeline for Feature request: Add a link within a question or answer
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
39 events
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Apr 22, 2019 at 15:58 | comment | added | Servy | @neuronet What do you think the scope of a question is, if not how much content is required to answer it? That you've posted a few off topic broad questions doesn't mean that the scope of a question isn't based on how much content is needed to answer it. | |
Apr 22, 2019 at 15:36 | comment | added | eric | @Servy "The scope of the question is by definition, how much content is required for it to be answered". This is where we disagree. You have been shown plenty of counterexamples. Have a good one. | |
Apr 22, 2019 at 15:25 | comment | added | Servy | @neuronet If the answer requires a large amount of content then by definition the question wasn't narrow in scope. The scope of the question is by definition, how much content is required for it to be answered. | |
Apr 22, 2019 at 15:23 | comment | added | eric | Reasonably scoped questions can have answers with high word counts. Just look at the data. | |
Apr 22, 2019 at 13:10 | comment | added | Servy | @neuronet So long posts are allowed just because you say so, but the fact that the site has created a Too Broad reason and specifically stated that post are expected to be reasonably scoped in their questions, and created both rules and technical changes in the site to enforce this, is just irrelevant? Long form content can certainly be useful, it's just not what this site is designed to create. Books, blogs, tutorials, classes, and other forms of content designed to provide lots of information on a broad topic can certainly be useful, but this site isn't designed to support it. | |
Apr 22, 2019 at 3:08 | comment | added | eric | It is pretty clear in retrospect that generalities about length of posts are not helpful. It depends on the topic. There are great, long, didactic posts. Eg Aaron Hall's python posts. They belong here just as much as more terse posts. Answer quality isn't decided by individual know-it-alls, and their arbitrary pronouncements about word counts, but by users and their votes. That's Stack Overflow. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 15:58 | comment | added | Servy | @cglacet The whole premise of the site is to provide answers to specific programming problems. Not just to post anything without bound. If you have a question in which you can't determine what the correct answer is then that is not an acceptable question, because it can't be answered as it. It needs to have sufficient information added that an actual verifiable correct answer can be provided. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 15:56 | comment | added | cglacet | I don't see any reason why a question should have a problem to solve. Concerning the off topic, you should just read back, we were talking about solutions that can't be compared, that's nothing off-topic at all, unless you also qualify complexity analysis as noise. Anyway, I'm bored arguing on details, when the existence of long questions by itself validates this feature request. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 15:24 | comment | added | Servy | @cglacet A question like, "how does X work" is almost certainly going to be too broad, unless X is something very simple to which explaining how it works can be done succinctly. It's also a fairly poor question because, as you have said, there isn't a problem to solve. That makes it a poor question for this platform. And you have indicated the information is off topic, because in response to me explaining why it's off offtopic your only response was to say, "but it's correct". If it's actually a part of answering the question explain why, other than just that you like it. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 15:14 | comment | added | cglacet | Ok, it look like we can't talk, you keep extrapolating what I say, I never said "off topic information". We are talking about levels of details on a given subject, you say that details is noise, I just say that details are sometimes necessary to fully understand an answer. If the goal is just to "solve problems", then how do you explain questions like "how does X work under the hood?". There is no problem to solve, the problem has already been solved by someone else. That's just a question written to better understand something (and don't tell me the question is too broad, I never said that). | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 15:05 | comment | added | Servy | If you just want to learn things in general, rather than solve specific problems, then SO's model isn't well suited to the situation. If you just want to post random information for people to learn something arbitrary then write a tutorial, a blog, make a youtube video, etc. SO's model is specific answers to specific questions. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 15:05 | comment | added | Servy | @cglacet The goal is to solve the problem asked about. Not to learn anything, even if it's not useful to solving the actual problem being asked about. Posting an answer to that question explaining how to sort a list isn't helpful, regardless of how correct the information is because it doesn't help you solve the problem at hand. The idea of the site is to have questions and answers to those questions, not questions and random information that may or may not actually be relevant, so long as it's factually correct. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 14:58 | comment | added | cglacet | I don't understand how you can consider valid information "not helpful" as the goal is to learn things. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 14:57 | comment | added | Servy | @cglacet Either one of the solutions is better than the others, in which case, people are using an inferior solution if they pick incorrectly, or there is on better solution, they're all equally good, and it's a waste of their time to look at any more than one solution. Either way, it's not helpful to have so many different solutions to the problem. It actively detracts from the quality of the answer, and makes it less helpful to readers. The best case, is that it's just wasting a bunch of their time reading information that's not helpful to them. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 14:55 | comment | added | cglacet | For example if you have multi-variable algorithms, you'll have multi-variable complexities and therefore it may happen that existing algorithms can't even compare. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 14:54 | comment | added | cglacet | I never said "longer is better", I just said "longer doesn't mean bad". The benefit is, as I said, "it has everything you need to understand your options", that doesn't even evoke the size of the answer. It just happen to be long, but that's a consequence of being clear and reasoned. "fewer readers are going to get the correct solution to the problem", you use "correct solution" as if it was something universal and absolute, but in many cases there is no such thing as "a correct solution". | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 14:24 | comment | added | Servy | @cglacet Well it means fewer readers are going to get the correct solution to the problem, and many of the readers are going to end up being actively harmed by the solution and end up using a solution inappropriate to the situation at hand, as a result of the answer. And the only benefit you've provided is that "it's longer", as if that's somehow intrinsically a good thing. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 14:13 | comment | added | cglacet | "Including multiple wildly different solutions, instead of simply including the one bests suited to the situation" I agree that these two makes sense but achieve very different goals, I personally prefer the first. I think that's the fundamental reason why we disagree. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 13:57 | comment | added | Servy | @cglacet I'm not an expert in the field but it sure looks like there's lots of information there that isn't needed, and it greatly reduces the quality of the post. Including multiple wildly different solutions, instead of simply including the one bests suited to the situation, means that readers are forced to spend considerable time reading through information about solutions that aren't useful for them, just to find the one that they should use, or worse still, not selecting the proper solution for the situation at all, because such a solution was inappropriately included. | |
Mar 12, 2019 at 13:35 | comment | added | cglacet | Your logic doesn't seems right to me. A very short and precise question may need a long/broad/detailed/reasoned answer. For example this question: how to execute two “aggregate” functions (like sum) concurrently, feeding them from the same iterator has a very long answer: comparing different solutions' performances. I wouldn't call that noise, I personally think it's a very good answer, it has everything you need to understand your options. An answer is sometime long because the problem is hard. | |
Mar 11, 2019 at 13:20 | comment | added | Servy | @cglacet If you feel that that much information is all necessary than, as the answer states, the question is too broad. If the question demonstrates such a significant lack of understanding of basic concepts that the answer needs to spend considerable time explaining related concepts for the answer to be understood it is too broad of a question. | |
Mar 11, 2019 at 10:45 | comment | added | cglacet | "If the short answer is sufficient, then the rest of the post is just noise." That's a tautology. I totally agree with neuronet, sometimes details are needed. For example if you think the person you are answering to is a beginner, then you can't just gave them a very evasive answer. And I think most questions are asked by beginners. An alternative is to use external references as much as possible, but this comes with a big drawback as external references are not guaranteed to stay forever. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 14:18 | comment | added | eric | obviously there are different levels of detail you can answer a question, and the longer one isn't necessarily noise. A good explanation is not noise. Again you are giving a priori generalities without anything specific at this point. Maybe point out the noise in my answer. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 14:12 | comment | added | Servy | @neuronet If the short answer is sufficient, then the rest of the post is just noise, and the post would be better off without it (or with it dramatically reduced). If it's not, then the scope of the problem is too large. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 14:10 | comment | added | Servy | @neuronet The scope of the post is an aspect of the content of the post. Or are you saying that two posts discussing the same topic, but with radically different scopes, have exactly the same content? The scope of a post is highly relevant; discussing the technical accuracy of the statements is not the only possible criticism that can be made of a post. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 14:05 | comment | added | eric | focusing on length is not focusing on content. You have said nothing about the content, and are repeating yourself now, haven't really addressed my previous claim. I gave the tl;dr for people who want that, and a longer version for those who want more explanation. This is accepted practice, and you have given zero substantive critique of the substance of my answer, other than repeating what you think about long answers. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 13:56 | comment | added | Servy | @neuronet Length is not stylistic. The formatting of the text is something that's stylistic. The scope of the content covered is in no way stylistic, it's substance. You're trying to write a book, when the help center specifically said that you shouldn't be writing a book for an answer. If you want to write books for answers that's fine, SO just isn't the place to do it. There are lots of other places where it is fine. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 4:32 | comment | added | eric | I'm familiar with that. I gave a two-line answer that is actually correct. I also gave more detail, to help someone who might want more detail. Nothing against that in the guidelines. You are cherry picking. I am going based on lines like "Brevity is acceptable, but fuller explanations are better" that are also in the guidelines. I attempt to give fuller explanations of things. Focusing on character number seems stylistic pedantry, not substance. Indeed, there is a character limit, right, that embodies the strict limits? I'm not even halfway there in my answer. So there's that. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 4:13 | comment | added | Servy | @neuronet Feel free to look through the help center yourself if you want to see some of the guidelines on scope. You're supposed to have already read it (you're not allowed to ask a question until you've have indicate that you have) but it seems that you haven't. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 3:27 | comment | added | eric | Let us continue this discussion in chat. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 3:13 | comment | added | eric | that is not a broad question: it is a focused question about the default delegate used by Qt views.. So the problem isn't the question, though it could be the answer. Do you have a link to where SO explicitly prohibits, discourages longer answers? Is there something wrong with an answer being relatively comprehensive? Someone else could answer it and make a nice pithy answer, and it will get voted up if people prefer that. At least is my understanding, though maybe I missed the memo, but this seems like stylistic attack not substantive. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 3:09 | comment | added | Servy |
@neuronet [...] to say X is bad because of length. It's not necessarily bad, it just doesn't belong on SO. SO isn't a site for posting long form articles about entire subjects. It's a place for specific, narrowly scoped questions. There are other places where the content you want to post is appropriate, and you can feel free to post such content there.
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Dec 17, 2015 at 3:07 | comment | added | Servy | @neuronet The fact that you wanted to ask a question that is too broad, and post an answer that's not of an appropriate scope for an SO answer, in no way changes the fact that the question is too broad, or that the answer isn't of an appropriate scope for an SO answer. if you want to just post blog posts/articles, that's fine, SO just isn't the place to do it. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 3:05 | comment | added | eric | perhaps bad examples, but at any rate it seems the post under question is not like that. It is a specific question about Qt for Python, and a detailed answer. Maybe for some it is overkill (hence, the tl;dr), but for the original questionier (i.e., me) it was exactly what I was after. There can be, and are, longer answers (and questions) at SO (or meta-SO). I appreciate longer answers that take the time to explain things, rather than code snippets and cryptic explanations. This is a stylistic preference, not something objective that you can use to say X is bad because of length. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 3:01 | comment | added | Servy | @neuronet Both of those questions are completely off topic for the site, and have no business being on SO at all. Given that the definition of the Too Broad close reason is that the question cannot be answered within an appropriate length, I can say that if there is an answer that's that long then either the question is too broad, or the answer has lots of superfluous information. SO answers really aren't supposed to be that long. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 2:59 | comment | added | eric | I would suggest it is impossible (and superficial) to say the answer or question is bad just by virtue of the length of the answer. There are lots of questions, and answers, that it would be useful to have links within. E.g., stackoverflow.com/a/1022743/1886357, stackoverflow.com/questions/1362687/…. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 2:51 | comment | added | Servy | @neuronet Either the information is important to answering the question, and thus the question is way too broad, or the vast majority of that answer is entirely off topic, and should be removed. Either way, something is very wrong when there's an answer that's that long. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 2:51 | comment | added | eric | The question is not broad, it is simple and specific, but for Python users giving an answer turns out to be a lot to it because it is about how the binding works under the hood. | |
Dec 17, 2015 at 2:40 | history | answered | Servy | CC BY-SA 3.0 |