Timeline for Declining Numbers of Women in Programming, What Can SO do to Help?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
19 events
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Jul 13, 2016 at 20:59 | comment | added | HLGEM | Sure we should be gender neutral. I suggest we call everyone she (that is as gender neutral as defaulting to using he) for a few days and see how many men are insulted by that. | |
Nov 13, 2015 at 15:42 | comment | added | user3956566 | @abbyhairboat would you put that comment of yours into an answer. It is such a good ethos and one of the best "answers" here. | |
Nov 12, 2015 at 23:23 | comment | added | user3956566 | @SuperBiasedMan exactly, I assumed (incorrectly) I was often the only woman in a discussion. It's such a relief to see other women and know who they are. I don't feel so alone. Btw, I've enjoyed reading your comments. Also I love the irony of your name in such a discussion!!!! :) | |
Nov 12, 2015 at 9:00 | comment | added | SuperBiasedMan | @ArtOfCode it is, because if the minorities don't know that they're on SO then the message is that SO is not for them. | |
Nov 11, 2015 at 16:22 | comment | added | ArtOfCode | @IlmariKaronen I can only agree with you - but is hiding the existence of the minorities such a bad thing? Sure, I'd love to see any minority group admitting and being proud of their existence in names/profiles/avatars, but in the long run if we don't know they're there, we can't treat them differently. In theory. | |
Nov 11, 2015 at 14:49 | comment | added | Ilmari Karonen | In any case, I don't think that gender-neutral usernames and avatars are the solution (and I say this as someone with a gender-neutral avatar and a name that, to non-Finns, can be quite gender-ambiguous). The problem is that, in an environment with as biased demographics as SO has, I (like most people, I suspect) tend to subconsciously assume that people with generic names are probably white males -- and, at least for the "male" part, I'll be right over 90% of the time. In effect, with such a strong prior bias, "don't ask, don't tell" just serves to hide the existence of the minorities. | |
Nov 11, 2015 at 14:31 | comment | added | Ilmari Karonen | Like @abbyhairboat, I have to half agree and half disagree with this. On one hand, I 100% agree that, ideally, gender (or ethnicity or sexual orientation or anything else that's not relevant to programming) should not matter on SO. On the other hand, whatever the ideal may be, the "minnow swimming in a school of barracuda feeling" mentioned elsewhere in the comments is a real thing that needs to be addressed, if we actually want to make SO (and the programmer community in general) welcoming to everyone. | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 22:09 | comment | added | Scott - Слава Україні | "Are you a unicorn? Why do I care?" — Obligatory meme. | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 21:09 | comment | added | user3956566 | tell me about it! meta and murder. I'm learning to curb my emotional reactions, that helps a lot. And you kn, talking about ideals, I think of this through all aspects of our global lives. Of the wars and terrible things that happen around the world. In this platform I am mentioning women in programming, but by developing empathy, the world can only become a better place. | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 21:05 | comment | added | ArtOfCode | @Yvette aye, and kudos to you for having the (figurative!) balls to chuck it out there - Meta can be pretty murderous to things it doesn't like. But hey, small steps start big leaps. | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 21:00 | comment | added | user3956566 |
I could have chosen an obviously male username and been guaranteed good treatment that speaks volumes! it shows you are aware of everything I was talking about! And it's not SO that needs to change, it's the whole world, and I am reaching out to SO, because it's one way of improving things.. and look, we are all trying to do that in each our small way.
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Nov 10, 2015 at 20:57 | comment | added | Kendra | "and unless I say it, it's hard to guess my gender." I don't care about the gender of my Pokemon most of the time, so you're fine with me! =D (For those who miss the joke, I frequently glance at your picture and see the spiral of an Omanyte shell from Pokemon, just darker.) On a more serious note, here's hoping anywhere can one day meet the ideal you set out here. | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 20:50 | comment | added | ArtOfCode | @Yvette Well I'd love to see the day that Stack Overflow meets that ideal. I actually think the lower proportion of women doesn't matter, as long as everyone is treated the same. My username itself is a bit of an experiment around this theme: it's gender-neutral. I could have chosen an obviously male username and been guaranteed good treatment. As it is, I've had people treat me well and not so well - and unless I say it, it's hard to guess my gender. | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 20:46 | comment | added | user3956566 | @ArtOfCode I totally get that, I like what you have written, it is idealistic.. and I guess I wanted to throw this discussion on the table.. And by doing so I'm discovering other women and that is nice. Even though it's not supposed to matter :) haha | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 20:43 | comment | added | ArtOfCode | @abbyhairboat Agreed. I'm talking about an ideal, here. In an ideal Stack Overflow, everybody would be treated the same. Neither is it that I don't care about your differences; I care about them to the extent that they are helpful or interesting in the actions I take here. If it gets to a point that they'd make a difference in how I treat you, I don't care. | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 20:43 | comment | added | hairboat Staff | @Yvette Thanks - and thanks for the OP :) | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 20:37 | comment | added | user3956566 | @abbyhairboat very nice comment. | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 20:29 | comment | added | hairboat Staff | I half agree and half disagree, I think. I'm not on board with not caring about others' differences. They're interesting, they make us unique and human, and crucially, they can often contribute to how we experience the world and others' behavior. We can't just ignore them. But I don't advocate for special rules for special groups, either. What I do advocate is for all of us here to be aware of our own actions and how they affect others, and to acknowledge mistakes and be open to changing our behavior when someone tells us we've stepped on their toes. | |
Nov 10, 2015 at 20:01 | history | answered | ArtOfCode | CC BY-SA 3.0 |