Timeline for Make it easier to close job shop "gimme teh codez" questions
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
29 events
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Feb 14, 2018 at 15:16 | comment | added | Brad Larson Mod | @Qwerty - It takes 125 reputation to vote down, so new accounts cannot do this. The number of sock puppets I've seen that were used to downvote posts is tiny compared to the number of puppets used to upvote someone. Anyone who puts in the effort to build up a number of puppets to the point where they can downvote, and then coordinates those downvotes, would most likely be caught by moderators. I'd come down on them like a ton of bricks. | |
Feb 14, 2018 at 4:40 | comment | added | Qwerty | Wouldn't this allow for bots that just mass downvote and take down questions? | |
Mar 20, 2017 at 10:32 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
replaced http://meta.stackexchange.com/ with https://meta.stackexchange.com/
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Nov 10, 2015 at 0:58 | comment | added | Travis J | Speaking to the idea that reputation could influence these types of posts, I made a post at MSE regarding allowing users to start with 5 reputation so that the effect of being downvoted is reflected immediately to them in the form of reputation. Perhaps this will also help send signal from the community and also increase the effect of downvoting for these types of questions at least from new users. | |
Oct 29, 2015 at 17:58 | comment | added | SuperBiasedMan | I like this idea, how do you think the process would work for reopening such questions? Would the normal reopen process be enough, or would we need to be more forgiving? | |
Oct 29, 2015 at 13:30 | comment | added | ken2k | Yeah, I'm all for this. I'm just tired of all those RTFM questions and those useless close reasons. Or bring back the "RTFM" close reason. | |
Oct 28, 2015 at 3:05 | comment | added | user3717023 | @IlmariKaronen Takes away 2 rep points; an upvote gives +5 on questions; the ratio is 2.5, not 5. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 20:16 | comment | added | Ilmari Karonen | @Ajedi32: A lot of people don't bother downvoting because it has so little apparent effect. (It only takes away one rep, and a single sympathy upvote is enough to undo the effect of five downvotes.) I know I started downvoting more when I realized that downvotes factor into question bans. I suspect that, if this suggestion was implemented, we'd see a lot more downvotes on bad questions. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 19:36 | comment | added | Ajedi32 | I don't think this would really do much. How often do you see a question now with a score < -5, outside of questions affected by the meta effect or outright spam or blatantly off-topic questions which get closed or deleted in short order anyway? | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 19:07 | comment | added | Travis J | I think this is a good balance because a majority of these types of questions come from new users, and taking this approach would allow the metric to be lenient to users who have asked well received questions in the past while still being strict on new users who ask questions that reach -5. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 19:07 | comment | added | Travis J | I like certain angles of this idea. I also think @BoltClock makes a good point about the reversal badge. I believe there is a possible middle ground where the user's well received questions provide a ratchet for this threshold. Perhaps making it be (well-received/10) + 5 as the barrier, with a cap at -10. So this would mean a new user would have a threshold of -5 for closure. However, if they asked a well-received question it would move to -6 as the threshold. And so on up to 10. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 16:53 | comment | added | Kevin B | @Machavity If 5 people found the question to be less than useful, what's the problem? the question was justly closed, just at a faster rate than it normally would have been. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 16:29 | comment | added | Machavity Mod | @acbabis Fair question, but it begs the question, what if someone meta-effect-ed a question (or used chat) so it was unjustly downvoted? It's an equally sticky problem. How do you determine what the legitimate use was? Or do you just accept the possibility that someone can downvote a question to oblivion without a reason? | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 15:58 | comment | added | aebabis | @Machavity What if negative-scoring questions couldn't receive positive net rep? | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 14:50 | comment | added | theB | Given Shog9's analysis on the original MSE post that "a whopping 88% of the answered, heavily-downvoted questions already had an answer by the time that 5th downvote arrived" would it also make sense to include some mechanism in this to make it more difficult to answer a downvoted question? Once the FGITW answers the question and the OP hastily accepts it, it's much harder for the roomba to clean up. Or, would the roomba's rules be adjusted such that closed-by-downvoting questions can get deleted? (To put it another way, are we just turning a closing problem into a deleting problem?) | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 14:30 | comment | added | Brad Larson Mod | @Becuzz - People already use sock puppets and voting rings all the time to try to work around question bans. The same people who would be impacted by this kind of question closure are the ones who already try to cheat the system in lazy ways to keep dumping questions on the site. My gut tells me this would not increase the frequency of this cheating much. We do have pretty good tools for catching this when it happens, and that just makes it worse for them when we do. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 14:25 | comment | added | Becuzz | @Lundin I know it's already a problem and that there are ways of dealing with it. I'm just using it as a example of how we might trade having to deal with some requirement dump questions to having to deal with more sock puppets (or sympathy upvotes or.....). | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 14:21 | comment | added | Lundin | @Becuzz Supposedly, SO has various intricate ways of detecting sock puppet accounts. The problem with sock-puppets up-voting a particular question is already a concern with the present system and has been so since the start of SO. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 14:19 | comment | added | Becuzz | Interesting idea, but I think it's just trading one problem for another. First thought that comes to mind: how many sock puppet accounts will we get to save horrible questions? | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 14:17 | comment | added | Lundin | @BradLarson Actually... suppose there's a mundane question of no particular interest, which is on the border of should-be-closed, but not obviously so. If a user don't agree that it should be closed, they would then perhaps up vote, even though the actual contents of the question did not merit an up vote. Similarly, interesting questions that are unsuitable for SO or blatantly off-topic may get extra up votes because some want to preserve them. The more I think of this proposal, the more I think it would make a mess where the quality of the question is mixed together with the on-topic:ness. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 14:04 | comment | added | Brad Larson Mod | @Lundin - This isn't identical. Standard close votes can be used even with upvoted questions, and we want to have a little barrier of trust for people casting those. They also are focused on what subject matter is appropriate for this site, which can take a little experience to understand. Everyone can recognize poor quality questions, though. There are good questions which are off topic, and terrible questions that are on topic. Let's let close votes handle scope and regular votes deal with question quality. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 12:18 | comment | added | NathanOliver | @Machavity People already hand out sympathy upvotes. I like this as a stop gap measure as it gets more people helping. That said we need to do something to stop these question from even getting to the site in the first place. How to do that, I don't know but at least this should help. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 12:13 | comment | added | Machavity Mod | I dislike this because sometimes a downvote with a comment is a useful thing. I've had instances where I got someone to improve something by using that combo. It also puts rep points into a tough position because people will upvote -4 questions just to keep them from being locked, meaning that people could gain rep just for having a question teetering on the brink of closure. I'm not sure that wouldn't be trading one problem for another... | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 8:24 | comment | added | user2361699 | @Lundin This isn't quite the same as reducing the close-vote requirement to 125 rep. Probably the most obvious difference is that each downvote can be counteracted by an upvote, given by someone with as little as 15 rep (so there no privilege symmetry as in close/reopen). You're right that it gives "close-votes-lite" to lower rep users, which is somewhat similar to the "delete-votes-lite" given to lower rep users in the review queues. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 7:20 | comment | added | Lundin | Are you aware that this is an identical solution to giving anyone with 125 rep access to close votes? Today you need 125 rep to down vote but 3000 rep to close vote. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 6:52 | comment | added | chrylis -cautiouslyoptimistic- | @TylerH Maybe require them to get to -3 or -2. | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 5:22 | comment | added | TylerH | Would questions closed for this reason automatically reopen if the score were to rise above -5 again? | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 4:19 | comment | added | BoltClock Mod | GG Reversal badge | |
Oct 27, 2015 at 2:27 | history | answered | Brad LarsonMod | CC BY-SA 3.0 |