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Jul 23, 2018 at 9:46 comment added CodeCaster @pnuts you're missing the point entirely, being that whether something is "working" often can't be verified without explanation.
Apr 13, 2017 at 12:55 history edited CommunityBot
replaced http://ell.stackexchange.com/ with https://ell.stackexchange.com/
Jul 9, 2015 at 17:02 comment added BoltClock Mod The other day I came across a user who cited "no chit chat" as a reason for posting code-only answers, and insisted that such answers were better than teaching people to fish because most people only care about solving their problem ASAP. Apparently exposition is considered chit chat now...
Jul 9, 2015 at 13:22 comment added CodeCaster @Jean what is "fair"? This site isn't like Facebook, where anyone who can use a keyboard has to be heard; it's intended to be a collection of high quality questions and answers. I use voting for quality control.
Jul 9, 2015 at 13:18 comment added Jean-François Corbett @CodeCaster: Paraphrasing a little bit, "When in doubt, downvote." I think a fairer approach is "When you doubt, abstain."
Jul 9, 2015 at 13:14 comment added CodeCaster @Jean sure, my stance may be pessimistic, but there are a lot more clueless users than users who know how to analyze a problem and write a proper answer. If no explanation is given in an answer, I assume the worst. I think that any answer with code should explain what the answerer thought the problem was and how the posted code will address that problem. If it doesn't, I consider that a bad answer. We're not only here for OP.
Jul 9, 2015 at 13:12 comment added Jean-François Corbett @CodeCaster: Did I purposefully skip the body of your answer? No. Why do you ask? I commented on your concluding statement, which I think nicely sums up your post. And I disagree with it, as indicated earlier.
Jul 9, 2015 at 12:54 comment added 2Dee While I fully agree with the above, I have to stress that if I had to down vote all answers I stumble upon that are just guesses, I'd spend all my time/rep doing that. I have the impression that the tag I'm active on (android) mainly sees rep junkies posting rushed-answers on "easy" questions, without even taking the time to guide the new programmers towards proper documentation, good practices and clean code (in fact, quite the contrary, I see lots of links to old blogs, malformed code, etc). Sometimes answerers will even admit they have no idea what their code does... We're being overrun :-/
Jul 9, 2015 at 12:51 comment added CodeCaster @gsamaras check it again. ;-) All I'm saying is I'm having trouble with the literal phrase "try this" because of reasons mentioned. That answer was ... poorly worded, but correct - and verifiably so.
Jul 9, 2015 at 12:45 comment added gsamaras What about this answer: stackoverflow.com/a/1731775/2411320 CodeCaster?
Jul 9, 2015 at 12:43 history edited CodeCaster CC BY-SA 3.0
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Jul 9, 2015 at 12:40 comment added CodeCaster @Jean did you on purpose skip the body of my answer to comment on the semantics? I think I explained very well why I don't consider such answers helpful. You don't know what the poster was thinking, so you cannot evaluate its correctness. I have added the latter to the answer now.
Jul 9, 2015 at 12:37 comment added Jean-François Corbett You can't tell whether a "try this" answer is helpful or not... therefore it isn't helpful? "It is hard to gauge the quality of "try this"-answers without thoroughly reading them [...] so I don't consider them helpful - and downvote" That's a pretty extreme negative attitude... Why not just let them be if you can't gauge their quality? Let alone improve them...
Jul 9, 2015 at 12:24 comment added Bill Woodger @SteveJessop it is not the words "Try this". It is when the "Try this" is, in substance, the entire description of the code. "Try this, I think it is unloaded" says someone handing you a revolver for your shot-in-the-head magic trick. Even a good "Try this" answer is hinting at a deficient question. For me, I get clarification, even if it means someone else guesses in the meantime or is faster than I once sufficient information is known. Long ago a guess cost me a lot of time and embarrassment. I really dislike guessing. When I do, I always qualify by "but guessing isn't really much use".
Jul 9, 2015 at 12:17 comment added Bill Woodger @cars10 I don't think your type of "Try this" is a problem. It is not the words "Try this" that are problematic, it is the presentation of a chunk of code which is effectively "here's my guess, and that's the end of it". Sometimes it is going to be an educated or reasoned guess, and may even be insightfully correct, but is presented as "here's my guess" because the explanation is missing.
Jul 9, 2015 at 12:01 comment added CodeCaster @Steve in my answer I'm talking about answer that literally state "Try this code block". Questions asking "What can be the cause of X?" sure can have answers with uncertainty in them (which you seem to be talking about) in the form of "It could be Y, try Z". Those aren't the greatest questions (or answers, for that matter) either.
Jul 9, 2015 at 12:00 comment added Steve Jessop Besides which, if 99% of the time the problem is solved by X and the other 1% requires Y, then "try X" is quite a good answer. A comment saying "does X solve it?" is 99% likely to be just an answer in comments. As I already said, "first try X, and if that's not applicable then do Y" is an even better answer.
Jul 9, 2015 at 11:55 comment added Steve Jessop @CodeCaster: If the question is unclear what's being asked, sure. But if the question refers to an unambiguously observable phenomenon with multiple possible causes and corresponding solutions, then IMO one should answer. Aside from anything else, the necessary steps for diagnosis are part of the "correct" procedure that a competent programmer would go through, and therefore should be part of a good answer.
Jul 9, 2015 at 11:53 comment added CodeCaster @Steve if the question isn't clear, you shouldn't answer, but ask for clarification in comments instead.
Jul 9, 2015 at 11:52 comment added Steve Jessop Good "try this" answers are because the question contains insufficient information to be sure. Therefore the answer is probably "this", but only the questioner can confirm. "Try this, and if it's not this the next thing to try is that" are even better for future visitors with the same inconclusive symptoms. Bad "try this" answers guess at correct syntax/API/etc and so the answer is known to be likely incorrect despite good intentions. They should be tested and cleaned up asap. Ugly "try this" answers are just a code snippet posted purely in hope that if it helps you might get some rep.
Jul 9, 2015 at 11:40 comment added Carsten Massmann @BillWoodger "Try this" in itself must not necessarily be bad. Very often I find myself in a spot where I do not have the resources to thoroughly test my suggested answer. Nevertheless I usually think it through very carefully and then try to present it without any errors. In these cases the "Try this" signals that the code is untested. But it is always followed by a detailed explanation of I want to achieve and how it is done. And, no, I don't usually google my answers anyway ...
Jul 9, 2015 at 6:44 comment added CodeCaster @ldog of course it's on a case by case basis, but i usually do when that's the only non code content of an answer, because of the reasons specified in my answer.
Jul 9, 2015 at 0:16 comment added ldog I hope you don't downvote an answer just because it has the words "Try this" in it without reading the entirety of the answer. If you do, then that is quite hypocritical of you, given that you probably haven't given enough effort into understanding the answer itself. Many good/complete answers contain those words....
Jul 8, 2015 at 19:23 comment added Qix - MONICA WAS MISTREATED @BillWoodger the second example you mention usually results in me flagging as Not an Answer. The third example you speak of, iirc, is against the rules (though don't quote me). By proxy, they're usually not formatted well to begin with and usually deserve a VTD for other reasons.
Jul 8, 2015 at 13:43 comment added Bill Woodger "Try this" for code is one of my least favourite types of answer. The chances of being correct must be smaller if they have to "guess" at an answer. I also love the "Let me know what happens"-type continuations. Especially "If it works, remember to accept my answer!".
Jul 8, 2015 at 13:30 history edited CodeCaster CC BY-SA 3.0
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Jul 8, 2015 at 13:25 history answered CodeCaster CC BY-SA 3.0