Timeline for Review audits exploitable (able to see real review stats before voting on the review) [duplicate]
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
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Nov 10, 2017 at 6:53 | history | closed |
Nissa Stephen RauchMod HaveNoDisplayName Michael Gaskill user2394254 |
Duplicate of This review is obviously an audit. Is this a bug? | |
Nov 10, 2017 at 2:52 | review | Close votes | |||
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Jul 28, 2017 at 6:36 | review | Close votes | |||
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May 2, 2017 at 4:39 | answer | added | EJoshuaS - Stand with Ukraine | timeline score: 1 | |
Apr 30, 2017 at 13:07 | history | edited | Peter Mortensen | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Active reading.
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Apr 28, 2017 at 16:12 | history | edited | Donald Duck | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Mar 15, 2015 at 21:26 | comment | added | ivarni | @user5061 I can at least confirm that manual bans do happen, as I have witnessed it when someone took a closer look at edits that a suspicious user had got confirmed here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/265169/… and that happened on a totally unrelated question I posted when I didn't understand the concept of binding votes from post owners. So "manual audits" do happen, usually when other irregularities are discovered. | |
Mar 12, 2015 at 9:09 | history | edited | user | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Mar 12, 2015 at 8:59 | vote | accept | user | ||
Mar 12, 2015 at 8:59 | vote | accept | user | ||
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Mar 11, 2015 at 22:21 | answer | added | rene | timeline score: 24 | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 22:19 | comment | added | user |
@Kendra Perhaps give a temporarily altered page when clicking the link by reviewer's IP or temporarily change it globally. By altered i mean +6 -> 0 , Page Doesnt Exist - > actual page etc. I havent thought about it. I just noticed a possible exploit.
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Mar 11, 2015 at 22:07 | history | edited | user | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Mar 11, 2015 at 22:05 | comment | added | user |
@KevinB Users that abuse the system in this way can likely be caught by statistics instead That would be great. Are statistics used currently to catch evil reviewers?
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Mar 11, 2015 at 21:52 | comment | added | Kendra | Now that we've established what exactly you're finding wrong with this situation, what do you suggest is done to fix it? As Kevin mentioned, you can't just prevent people from getting back to the question at hand, because there are plenty of cases in which you do need the context of the actual question page to review properly. And removing the "link" from the audits only would make it more obvious that it's an audit, and prevent even having to leave the page. | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:50 | comment | added | Kendra | Honestly, that "near 100% accuracy" thing was probably referring to only audits themselves. I'm talking about non-audits. I've seen posts on Meta before about users being banned and not understanding why, possibly because the review they're supposed to review is on a deleted post. The answer tends to be, in the case of manual bans, because they let "an obvious spam post" get through the review queue. So mods can manually ban from reviewing, and they will if they see you let spam through. | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:48 | comment | added | user | KevinB and Kendra, to my surprise i finally found people that addresses the actual issue raised in my post. | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:47 | comment | added | user |
@Kendra What stops someone from programming its bot to click the link and check scores? Also, what you are saying about bots contradicts previous comments that suggest bots can have near 100% accuracy. I don't know who is right or wrong. ...they are still going to eventually hit a post that should be stopped, review incorrectly, and be manually banned. It would be nice if some mod can confirm that this is the actual case (based on data on its effectiveness rather than opinion).
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Mar 11, 2015 at 21:44 | comment | added | Kevin B | I don't think an audit can reliably catch users who are doing that without removing important functionality from the review process. We don't want to prevent people from going to the question being reviewed, and that's really the only thing that would prevent someone from getting around the audit in this way. Users that abuse the system in this way can likely be caught by statistics instead. | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:42 | comment | added | user |
@KevinB Is that the case you are talking about? Exactly!
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Mar 11, 2015 at 21:35 | comment | added | Kendra | And honestly, these bad reviewers you seem to be thinking of that are just going for the badges are going to end up letting spam or other horrible posts get through and are going to end up manually banned by a moderator, anyway. So even if they pass the audits and are only checking for those then hitting a button to increase their review count, they are still going to eventually hit a post that should be stopped, review incorrectly, and be manually banned. | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:33 | comment | added | Kendra | If the user is trying to game badges, but is clicking through on questions to check if it's an audit, then the audit has at least made that potential robo-reviewer pay more attention, meaning that they no longer classify as a robo-reviewer. A bad reviewer, possibly, but not a robo-reviewer. I think that's where you're getting stuck on what's been said so far. You're thinking only of badge-gamers that are at least smart enough to watch for audits, but there are still reviewers going for the badges that don't click through and check for audits. Those people are the ones audits are for. | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:33 | comment | added | Kevin B | It's certainly possible that someone goes through the review following every link to make sure it isn't an audit, and then clicking any of the review buttons but skip. Is that the case you are talking about? | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:31 | comment | added | Kendra | I'm sure it's been a bit frustrating getting the same response over and over about this being completely fine and intended behavior.... But I think you're ever-so-slightly missing what people have been trying to tell you: Robo-reviewers don't click through to the question, and audits are there to catch robo-reviewers. I know you understand what audits are, but I think you're slightly missing what robo-reviewers are. Robo-reviewers don't click through to the question. Instead, they blindly hit whatever button gets them through the reviews fastest hoping to game badges. (cont.) | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:30 | comment | added | Kevin B | If they "exploit it", they are paying attention. | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:30 | comment | added | user | @KevinB What am i doing wrong? I m honestly starting to believe that i m not explaining things the way i should. A person that doesn't want to pay attention and reviews only for a badge can exploit it. Is this statement incorrect? Will the system catch that said person that is not paying attention? | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:25 | comment | added | Kevin B | If you follow the link to investigate the question further, the audit has already accomplished its goal. It isn't there to trick you or to try to get you banned, it's there to make you have to pay attention and to catch those who aren't. | |
Mar 11, 2015 at 21:19 | history | reopened |
user l4mpi AstroCB nhahtdh Patrick Hofman |
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Mar 11, 2015 at 20:48 | history | edited | user | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Mar 10, 2015 at 13:31 | review | Reopen votes | |||
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Mar 10, 2015 at 13:24 | history | edited | user | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Mar 10, 2015 at 13:14 | history | edited | user | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Mar 10, 2015 at 13:09 | history | edited | user | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Mar 10, 2015 at 12:35 | history | closed |
rene Code Lღver Bhargav Rao Corey Adler Kevin Brown-Silva |
Duplicate of Why am I getting "Our system has identified this post as possible spam" in review audits? | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:56 | history | edited | user | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Mistakened "effective" for "efficient", oh boy.
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Mar 9, 2015 at 14:51 | comment | added | user | @rene I checked all suggested duplicates. None of which is really a duplicate. Seeing 2 close votes on my question, one answer that doesn't address the main issue presented in my question, 3 suggested duplicates by you, and 5 upvotes on that answer, i start to wonder whether i failed that bad at explaining the problem. "the point is that robo-reviewers don't do that"- I highly doubt that. | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:35 | comment | added | rene | Yeah, and the point is that robo-reviewers don't do that so in this case they might get lured into clicking Recommend deletion and thus fail the audit. Anyone who visits the actual question when presented an audit is not the kind of user the audit systems tries to catch. | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:29 | comment | added | user | @rene Exactly! Then why would the link show a +6? Anyone clicking the link would instantly know its an audit before taking action. | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:28 | comment | added | rene | Scores are always removed from questions when shown in an audit and replaced with 0, -1 or -2 | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:27 | comment | added | rene | I meant to say that a bot can always decide the correct review outcome, in other words it will never fail an audit. I'm not saying bots are curently capable of indetifying spam 100% correctly. | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:26 | comment | added | user | @rene Perhaps i should have stated that it was a 0 score question in the audit, linking to a +6 question, before i pass the audit. Is that what all those proposed duplicates are about? Edited the question to include it. | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:25 | history | edited | user | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Mar 9, 2015 at 14:24 | comment | added | user | @rene "A bot can always decide 100% accurately. " If this was really the case, there would be no need for human reviews. | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:23 | comment | added | rene | Could also be that the post has an spam flag as explained in this answer: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/253770/… | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:19 | comment | added | rene | A bot can always decide 100% accurately. Although the review out-come might be different there is not much else to set this question apar from the proposed duplicate and that answer will also hold on your question. I'm not conviced, yet, that I've choosen the wrong dup. | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:12 | review | Close votes | |||
Mar 9, 2015 at 15:25 | |||||
Mar 9, 2015 at 14:09 | comment | added | user | @rene The suggested duplicate question sums up to "Where is the challenge when the expected review audit result is displayed?" (that is, he considers "Our system.....possible spam" a hint). My question sums up to "a bot can simply check the upvotes in a link and decide 100% accurately.". | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 13:06 | answer | added | Billy Mailman | timeline score: 29 | |
Mar 9, 2015 at 13:02 | history | edited | user | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Mar 9, 2015 at 12:57 | history | asked | user | CC BY-SA 3.0 |