Timeline for Should I upvote an originally-poor question that I have edited into understandability?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
25 events
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Mar 20, 2017 at 9:14 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
replaced http://meta.stackoverflow.com/ with https://meta.stackoverflow.com/
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Oct 29, 2014 at 20:57 | comment | added | Ben Voigt | @Servy: Google does take scores into account, not by having SO-specific code, but because SO reports metadata in the HTML according to a google-recognized format. That lets Google share the same logic between SO, quora, yahoo answers, etc. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:50 | comment | added | Shog9 | What usually happens is one of two things, @Servy: they figure out how to ask better questions after a few of these (relatively rare, but it happens) or they keep pumping out bad questions faster than folks are willing/able to help them (extremely common). This is why the ban algorithm takes second-place to rolling rate-limits now: they kick in a lot faster. This is becoming an increasingly tangential discussion though; if you're interested in continuing it, let's hop into chat. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:46 | comment | added | Servy | @Shog9 Are you asserting that if a user regularly posts very low quality posts, but their posts are edited into good questions by other users after lengthy comment discussions and then upvoted that the user is likely to end up question banned due to providing consistently low quality contributions? Somehow I just wouldn't expect the question ban algorithm to be that good. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:43 | comment | added | Servy | @Shog9 Editing does provide some feedback to the post author, although based on the reactions I've seen in my experiences users tend to not perceive significant edits to their post as either as strong or as visible of an indication of the posts problems as its score. It's everything else that worries me more. I realize the system can and does change, but I couldn't imagine how it possibly could deal with a situation like this. The fact that a post is edited doesn't necessarily mean the original question was bad. Most edits in general only marginally change a post's quality. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:38 | comment | added | Shog9 | That's a false dichotomy, @Servy. You're providing feedback by editing. And how the system interprets any of this can and does change. But if you're gonna worry about the system, consider that one of the hardest problems we face is in trying to categorize questions automatically based on content - and the absolute worst thing you can do for that system is to not upvote good posts. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:27 | comment | added | Servy | @Shog9 So you're opposed to the logic of helping someone out by improving their content and potentially solving a problem that they have while still providing the feedback to both them and the system that they didn't provide a valuable contribution and that they need to improve to continue participating in the site? You fell that the decision is to either indicate that their contributions are problematic or to assist them in solving their problem, and that the two are mutually exclusive? | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:21 | comment | added | Shog9 | It's not that difficult, @Servy - deciding whether or not to edit is difficult. That's a non-trivial amount of precious, precious time that I'm giving away, in the hope that it'll benefit the community that I love and the knowledge that it'll benefit someone I know nothing about. Deciding whether to answer is difficult, for the same reason. Those are hard, hard decisions, and no one has the right to make them for you or to imply that they aren't going to involve at least some soul-searching... But once you've made them, given that time, turned someone's question into your own… Voting is easy. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:16 | comment | added | Servy | @Shog9 Your first sentence is certainly true of any moderately popular question. It's a lot less true in less populated tags/sites in which your vote can very likely make up a very large percentage of the total votes (quite plausably even 100%). And additionally, going to, "it doesn't matter what you do" is quite a lot different from, "unquestionably upvote". As for the rest, I certainly agree that it's a problem with my last argument, it's why I consider the answer to this question to be a very complex and difficult decision, rather than just a snap upvote without much consideration. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:12 | comment | added | Shog9 | The actual effects that your vote have pale in comparison to those of everyone else who might vote in the future, @Servy. If you don't want folks up-voting a question, then spending your time to make it look beautiful is... really the wrong way to go about that. So is answering the question, for that matter. If you're at the point where you've done everything else possible to make a question as useful as it can be, and now you're worried that the author might get rep or encouragement from it... You've really screwed up quite badly. Or you're just being dishonest. Don't be dishonest. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:11 | comment | added | gnat | Every time you see a post and don't vote, you're voting "Meh" -- except for times when you're out of votes - in which case you're sometimes voting like "damn rate-limiting" :) | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:11 | comment | added | Servy | Upvoting the content is your way of saying that you think the post is not a good post that people should read, but the actual effect of that vote has a rather small (but granted, non-zero) effect on whether or not people will actually read it. That vote has other effects though, such as very plausibly encouraging users to continue posting low quality content, and preventing automated tools such as the question ban algorithm from effectively determining the value of a user's contributions. That, at a minimum, makes this decision more complex than you're making it out to be. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:09 | comment | added | AHiggins | And oh, what a fish it is! I'm still distracted by that how-to guide ... I just. can't. stop. reading! | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:09 | comment | added | Servy | @Shog9 I certainly agree with your logic on the basis of purely what a vote conceptually represents and given it's intended use. The problem that I have with that logic is that it ignores the actual effect that it has on the real world. The actual effects that the vote you cast has on the world are another basis to make this decision, one that greatly changes the decision process. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:02 | comment | added | Shog9 | Perhaps that paragraph was a bit of a red herring, @Servy - I've replaced it with a much larger fish. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 18:02 | history | edited | Shog9 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
rant
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Oct 29, 2014 at 17:37 | comment | added | Servy | @JanDvorak Google has a significant impact on SE, SE doesn't really have a significant impact on Google. I'd be very surprised for them to go out of their way to specialize their SEO algorithm just for the sake of SO/SE questions to better rank their content among themselves. The first major barrier is that I just wouldn't expect Google to care that much about just one set, but even if they got past that there's the fact that you can't really use the score when comparing the SO question against non-SO content. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 17:34 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @Servy why shouldn't be Google looking at the question scores? SO is a significant source hits for Google and surely deserves its own heuristics. Also, there's an (emerging?) standard on how to mark up Q/A sites in HTML such that Google understands them. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 17:32 | comment | added | Servy | @Shog9 I'm certainly not advocating not editing the post. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 17:31 | comment | added | Servy | @JanDvorak I would strongly suspect that Google wouldn't be looking at a questions score when ranking results. SO search can, sure, but not Google, and Google is, by a significant margin, where people come from to find answers. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 17:30 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @Servy Google might like to devaluate such questions and prefer giving out results with higher question score. Also, if the answer isn't upvoted, the Roomba might come sooner than answer upvotes. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 17:30 | comment | added | Shog9 | Score affects order of search results, @Servy. More importantly, not editing a poorly-written question affects search results. | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 17:06 | comment | added | Servy | In what way is a downvote on the question hiding the content from the people that are searching for the answer? | |
Oct 29, 2014 at 17:01 | history | edited | RustyTheBoyRobot | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Minor spelling fix
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Oct 29, 2014 at 16:40 | history | answered | Shog9 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |