Skip to main content
33 events
when toggle format what by license comment
Jan 12, 2023 at 20:48 comment added Servy @KarlKnechtel Then first off, you should say that. But if you think that's appropriate you'd need to explain how you'd propose the site accomplish what the review queues accomplish but without them, or why the site would be better off removing them without making other changes to accommodate (it's not clear which you're proposing). That's also most certainly not something to discuss in the comments of this post. If you want all review queues to go away, that's a new proposal you should make, not something to comment on a post about why reviews require more than one person.
Jan 12, 2023 at 20:43 comment added Karl Knechtel Because I think it's clear that the review process should not exist in the first place (and am actively trying to propose alternate mechanisms for getting edit proposals considered and dealt with). My evidence for this is how much everyone seems to hate it, from every angle.
Jan 12, 2023 at 20:40 comment added Servy @KarlKnechtel Why do you, as someone who has not interacted with the review process basically at all, think that it's obvious that the concerns of the people who do interact with that system should be disregard, especially given that those concerns are specifically intended to address a problem you've also stated has been bothering you significatly?
Jan 12, 2023 at 20:37 comment added Servy How does being able to search for posts with pending edits help you look for posts for you to improve? If you're looking for posts to edit and improve you don't need to search for posts with a pending suggested edit. They're not more likely to be posts you'd want to improve. If you also remove the queue and try to replace it by letting people search for posts with edits pending approval then you've just made a worse queue that's less discoverable, resulting in edits sitting without approval for much longer. At that point you might as well just remove the ability to suggest edits.
Jan 12, 2023 at 20:37 comment added Servy "implies that I will somehow steal credit" And yet you said you didn't have the ability to do it. If you don't like the names of the buttons, you can suggest changing them. That's going to get a different answer than you asking for a feature that already exists.
Jan 12, 2023 at 19:27 comment added Karl Knechtel "It's so obvious to anyone doing any reviewing that you can't not see it constantly." The only thing that's obvious to me is that the people complaining about the approval of small edits to change formatting from one style to another, are bikeshedding just as much as the people proposing and accepting those edits.
Jan 12, 2023 at 19:25 comment added Karl Knechtel "You literally already have that ability." It's labelled in a way that implies that I will somehow steal credit for the other person's change, if I recognize it at all. "What does this do to address any problems" it would allow users to review edits for things they're actually interested in improving, which would make them more invested in the process of review, which would result in them not abusively trying to get past edits and accept other stuff in order to complete their self-assigned "homework". It would also allow getting rid of a queue which has proven to be a massive bottleneck.
Jan 12, 2023 at 19:02 comment added Servy @KarlKnechtel " the problem is resolved by just letting me approve the edit myself, and then building upon it" You literally already have that ability. And have for like a decade. "Is there real evidence for this?" Yes. Lots. It's so obvious to anyone doing any reviewing that you can't not see it constantly. "Are the bad reviews coming from people who would make good edits themselves?" Yes, it's not an issue exclusive to low rep users. "what if I could add haspendingedit:1 to searches" What does this do to address any problems, either yours or those involving abuse?
Jan 11, 2023 at 23:22 comment added Karl Knechtel For one example off the top of my head: what if I could add haspendingedit:1 to searches, instead of letting the system decide which pending edits to show me?
Jan 11, 2023 at 23:19 comment added Karl Knechtel "reviews require multiple people to review them because so many people review improperly, and it's simply necessary." I just finished explaining that I'm not using the review queue. Of course I can easily tell whether the edit is good or bad when I'm about to make my own edit. I've just been evaluating the post in order to understand what should be edited and how! "The frequency in which people abuse the review system" Is there real evidence for this? Are the bad reviews coming from people who would make good edits themselves? I think the problem is the queue itself.
Jan 11, 2023 at 23:18 comment added Karl Knechtel "while here you're complaining about how you're unable to make edits to meaningfully [improve] posts due to there being pending suggested edits on them." Yes; that's a technical problem, not a social problem. In both cases, the problem is resolved by just letting me approve the edit myself, and then building upon it.
Jan 11, 2023 at 16:53 comment added Servy But to your other point, reviews require multiple people to review them because so many people review improperly, and it's simply necessary. If enough people actually reviewed things properly and didn't either make mistakes, or more commonly and concerningly, negligently not even make a good faith effort to try to review properly, it wouldn't be necessary. The frequency in which people abuse the review system is precisely why protections, such as the requirements to number of reviews, are needed.
Jan 11, 2023 at 16:53 comment added Servy @KarlKnechtel Funny that your linked post is mostly complaining about the guidance against people making trivial edits that don't meaningfully improve a post, and are saying that such edits should be encouraged, while here you're complaining about how you're unable to make edits to meaningfully approve posts due to there being pending suggested edits on them. People making trivial edits that don't meaningfully improve a post but require reviews to review them is precisely what's impeding you.
Jan 11, 2023 at 8:00 comment added Karl Knechtel I don't use the review queues, because they are out of my way, barely discoverable and have no associated incentive. I constantly try to edit posts (internal motivation) and get impeded by pending edit suggestions. I have complained about this many, many times. I continue to believe that approving suggested edits single-handedly should still be possible.
Feb 26, 2021 at 14:51 comment added Joel Coehoorn It should take context into account. If you're working through the review queue, then absolutely require two approvals. If you were just viewing the question anyway, want to make an edit, and have the required rep to do so, and the question is previously edited for review with the same or similar edit, it's incredibly annoying to need to wait for another approver... especially if this edit is significant for viewing the question (ie: fixing code formatting). I frequently find myself making meaningless "additional improvements" just so I can get a reasonable view of code in a question.
Nov 12, 2014 at 2:24 comment added John Zwinck @abarnert: I have just proposed something like this here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/276648/…
Sep 25, 2014 at 13:58 comment added Servy @DonRoby Sure, when the edit is on a post he authored.
Sep 24, 2014 at 22:05 comment added Don Roby Can Jon Skeet approve edits single-handedly?
Sep 23, 2014 at 13:43 comment added Servy @abarnert Again, if you want to propose a feature to special case that situation, again, you're more than welcome to propose it. It does have some potential pitfalls, but it's certainly something that you can discuss/propose if you want.
Sep 23, 2014 at 2:47 comment added abarnert Again referring to Martin Smith's comment on the question: does this also apply to users who approve edits from the edit link directly on the question or answer, or only to those who do so from the edit queue? If the behavior is different, maybe the rules should be different.
Sep 22, 2014 at 20:51 comment added TylerH @codeMagic There's no impracticality whatsoever. Just elect them (there's never any shortage of people running in elections) based on peer votes. During elections, we get a handy link to see their review history, including their top 20 most debated review choices (suggested edits that made it through with at least two rejections, or that didn't make it through with at least two approvals, etc.). I've been suggesting a dedicated panel to audit (an actual audit, not the "test" that we deal with today) reviews for a while now.
Sep 22, 2014 at 20:31 vote accept Squonk
Sep 22, 2014 at 20:31 comment added Squonk @Servy: Well I think we've discussed enough and I understand the way the things work as they are now so I'll accept your answer and explanation. Thanks.
Sep 22, 2014 at 20:18 comment added Servy @Squonk You're more than welcome to suggest that feature, although it does have its fair share of flags, such as users using the /review queue but taking the extra click to go to the question before approving/rejecting it.
Sep 22, 2014 at 20:17 comment added Squonk @Servy : Check the comments by Martin Smith on my question. It seems if a SO user can single-handedly close (put on hold) a question based on holding a gold badge, they could also approve a suggested edit as long as it was done from the question itself rather than from the review queue. As Martin suggests, if I'm looking at a question from the normal questions list it's because I want to see if I can answer it. If I want to edit (or approve an edit) it's because I understand the where / what needs editing to improve it.
Sep 22, 2014 at 19:59 comment added codeMagic Yep, that's why I said it isn't very practical. They would have to be specially selected by people who were specially selected by the specially selected people...
Sep 22, 2014 at 19:59 comment added Squonk So basically there's a subtle flaw in the system. My reference to "rep" was purely because at a certain rep level a user can single-handedly make edits and it just seemed odd they couldn't single-handedly approve suggested edits. I guess I'll just have to live with it although it's sometimes frustrating.
Sep 22, 2014 at 19:57 comment added Servy @codeMagic And then the reviewer reviewers will be just as bad as the reviewers, so we'll need reviewers for the reviewer reviewers, and then those reviewers won't do a good job, so we'll need reviewers for the reviewer reviewer reviewers, and they won't do a good job so we'll...
Sep 22, 2014 at 19:40 comment added codeMagic Nope, definitely not rep. We almost need a review board of reviewers but that's not very efficient or practical
Sep 22, 2014 at 19:32 comment added Servy @Squonk Given that we've seen users with tens of thousands of rep going through the review queues approving everything, no, that is very clearly not an option at all. If there is a way to distinguish which reviewers actually evaluate edits well and will take the proper action in just about every case then we haven't found it, and it's not rep.
Sep 22, 2014 at 19:31 comment added Squonk OK, I can see that argument up to a point but surely there should be some level of "rep" where a SO user could approve suggested edits single-handedly? Perhaps I pay a great attention to detail when others don't but it does seem like a bit of a hassle. Unless I reject the edit and re-edit (in exactly the same way) there's no telling when another approval will come along if I simply vote to approve.
Sep 22, 2014 at 19:28 comment added AstroCB Which leads me to believe that we should have a better system for detecting when these types of things happen and dealing with the users more effectively. But, then again, we've discussed that before.
Sep 22, 2014 at 19:23 history answered Servy CC BY-SA 3.0