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AstroCB
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In short, I fully support the decision to close the proposal, and everything Jon said in the OP. Even more so I fully support that this discussion is being brought to everybody's attention, and I retract the comments I made on the OP about this not being a big deal, as @AnnaLear brings up a good point:

The "big deal" here isn't the SOA proposal or its closure. It's the discussion among the SO community about whether or not MSO can have an educational component as Jon describes. That, I think, is deserving of the [featured] tag.

Keeping it somewhat (because I type fast) brief (because I don't have a lot of time), my take on it is simply this:

Personally I think it's up for debate whether MSO is "broken" or not, both sides have good points. Let's assume it is for the sake of this post.

SOA is essentially a band-aid for a meta perceived as broken. Band-aids arent a good way to solve these kinds of problems.

More importantly, MSO's current culture, like it or not, happened organically even though it probably started with similar ideals. That happened for a reason and that reason needs to be addressed, and I think Jon's post is addressing these issues in a good way and getting straight to the source.

If we don't fix the real issues, and have SOA, even with the best intentions, what happens when SOA culture inevitably goes down the same path? Do we get SOAA? Then SOAAA? You may think SOA is "different" or that it starts with "better principals"principles" but MSO I'm sure didn't start with a philosophy of becoming an unfriendly (again, assumptions for sake of discussion) place to ask these types of questions either. We are who we are today because we arrived here naturally.

Solve the problem at its source. Don't keep putting it off with band-aids, or by slapping a new site theme and URL on a meta-in-disguise.

Besides there seems to be some attitude here that "Ah! MSO is screwed!" This is a very dynamic system we have here. It can change, and probably quickly. Hell, the SO "culture" (at least as related to this type of thing) does a full 180 every time the close-vote reasons are re-evaluated. So cut the doomsday "MSO is screwed, SOA is our only hope" and solve the real problems.

Take whatever philosophical changes you want to make on SOA and apply them here instead.

The SOA proposal was just an easy way to attempt to get out of dealing with harder problems, which will still exist on MSO and SOA. Who would participate on SOA anyways? A whole new set of people? Or the same people (us) thatwho have organically driven MSO culture to its current state anywaysanyway?

In short, I fully support the decision to close the proposal, and everything Jon said in the OP. Even more so I fully support that this discussion is being brought to everybody's attention, and I retract the comments I made on the OP about this not being a big deal, as @AnnaLear brings up a good point:

The "big deal" here isn't the SOA proposal or its closure. It's the discussion among the SO community about whether or not MSO can have an educational component as Jon describes. That, I think, is deserving of the [featured] tag.

Keeping it somewhat (because I type fast) brief (because I don't have a lot of time), my take on it is simply this:

Personally I think it's up for debate whether MSO is "broken" or not, both sides have good points. Let's assume it is for the sake of this post.

SOA is essentially a band-aid for a meta perceived as broken. Band-aids arent a good way to solve these kinds of problems.

More importantly, MSO's current culture, like it or not, happened organically even though it probably started with similar ideals. That happened for a reason and that reason needs to be addressed, and I think Jon's post is addressing these issues in a good way and getting straight to the source.

If we don't fix the real issues, and have SOA, even with the best intentions, what happens when SOA culture inevitably goes down the same path? Do we get SOAA? Then SOAAA? You may think SOA is "different" or that it starts with "better principals" but MSO I'm sure didn't start with a philosophy of becoming an unfriendly (again, assumptions for sake of discussion) place to ask these types of questions either. We are who we are today because we arrived here naturally.

Solve the problem at its source. Don't keep putting it off with band-aids, or by slapping a new site theme and URL on a meta-in-disguise.

Besides there seems to be some attitude here that "Ah! MSO is screwed!" This is a very dynamic system we have here. It can change, and probably quickly. Hell, the SO "culture" (at least as related to this type of thing) does a full 180 every time the close-vote reasons are re-evaluated. So cut the doomsday "MSO is screwed, SOA is our only hope" and solve the real problems.

Take whatever philosophical changes you want to make on SOA and apply them here instead.

The SOA proposal was just an easy way to attempt to get out of dealing with harder problems, which will still exist on MSO and SOA. Who would participate on SOA anyways? A whole new set of people? Or the same people (us) that have organically driven MSO culture to its current state anyways?

In short, I fully support the decision to close the proposal, and everything Jon said in the OP. Even more so I fully support that this discussion is being brought to everybody's attention, and I retract the comments I made on the OP about this not being a big deal, as @AnnaLear brings up a good point:

The "big deal" here isn't the SOA proposal or its closure. It's the discussion among the SO community about whether or not MSO can have an educational component as Jon describes. That, I think, is deserving of the [featured] tag.

Keeping it somewhat (because I type fast) brief (because I don't have a lot of time), my take on it is simply this:

Personally I think it's up for debate whether MSO is "broken" or not, both sides have good points. Let's assume it is for the sake of this post.

SOA is essentially a band-aid for a meta perceived as broken. Band-aids arent a good way to solve these kinds of problems.

More importantly, MSO's current culture, like it or not, happened organically even though it probably started with similar ideals. That happened for a reason and that reason needs to be addressed, and I think Jon's post is addressing these issues in a good way and getting straight to the source.

If we don't fix the real issues, and have SOA, even with the best intentions, what happens when SOA culture inevitably goes down the same path? Do we get SOAA? Then SOAAA? You may think SOA is "different" or that it starts with "better principles" but MSO I'm sure didn't start with a philosophy of becoming an unfriendly (again, assumptions for sake of discussion) place to ask these types of questions either. We are who we are today because we arrived here naturally.

Solve the problem at its source. Don't keep putting it off with band-aids, or by slapping a new site theme and URL on a meta-in-disguise.

Besides there seems to be some attitude here that "Ah! MSO is screwed!" This is a very dynamic system we have here. It can change, and probably quickly. Hell, the SO "culture" (at least as related to this type of thing) does a full 180 every time the close-vote reasons are re-evaluated. So cut the doomsday "MSO is screwed, SOA is our only hope" and solve the real problems.

Take whatever philosophical changes you want to make on SOA and apply them here instead.

The SOA proposal was just an easy way to attempt to get out of dealing with harder problems, which will still exist on MSO and SOA. Who would participate on SOA anyways? A whole new set of people? Or the same people (us) who have organically driven MSO culture to its current state anyway?

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user456814
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In short, I fully support the decision to close the proposal, and everything Jon said in the OP. Even more so I fully support that this discussion is being brought to everybody's attention, and I retract the comments I made on the OP about this not being a big deal, as @AnnaLear brings up a good point:

The "big deal" here isn't the SOA proposal or its closure. It's the discussion among the SO community about whether or not MSO can have an educational component as Jon describes. That, I think, is deserving of the [featured] tag.

Keeping it somewhat (because I type fast) brief (because I don't have a lot of time), my take on it is simply this:

Personally I think it's up for debate whether MSO is "broken" or not, both sides have good points. Let's assume it is for the sake of this post.

SOA is essentially a band-aid for a meta perceived as broken. Band-aids arent a good way to solve these kinds of problems.

More importantly, MSO's current culture, like it or not, happened organically even though it probably started with similar ideals. That happened for a reason and that reason needs to be addressed, and I think Jon's post is addressing these issues in a good way and getting straight to the source.

If we don't fix the real issues, and have SOA, even with the best intentions, what happens when SOA culture inevitably goes down the same path? Do we get SOAA? Then SOAAA? You may think SOA is "different" or that it starts with "better principals" but MSO I'm sure didn't start with a philosophy of becoming an unfriendly (again, assumptions for sake of discussion) place to ask these types of questions either. We are who we are today because we arrived here naturally.

Solve the problem at its source. Don't keep putting it off with band-aids, or by slapping a new site theme and URL on a meta-in-disguise.

Besides there seems to be some attitude here that "Ah! MSO is screwed!" This is a very dynamic system we have here. It can change, and probably quickly. Hell, the SO "culture" (at least as related to this type of thing) does a full 180 every time the close-vote reasons are re-evaluated. So cut the doomsday "MSO is screwed, SOA is our only hope" and solve the real problems.

Take whatever philosophical changes you want to make on SOA and apply them here instead.

The SOA proposal was just an easy way to attempt to get out of dealing with harder problems, which will still exist on MSO and SOA. Who would participate on SOA anyways? A whole new set of people? Or the same people (us) that have organically driven MSO culture to its current state anyways?

In short, I fully support the decision to close the proposal, and everything Jon said in the OP. Even more so I fully support that this discussion is being brought to everybody's attention, and I retract the comments I made on the OP about this not being a big deal, as @AnnaLear brings up a good point:

The "big deal" here isn't the SOA proposal or its closure. It's the discussion among the SO community about whether or not MSO can have an educational component as Jon describes. That, I think, is deserving of the [featured] tag.

Keeping it somewhat (because I type fast) brief (because I don't have a lot of time), my take on it is simply this:

Personally I think it's up for debate whether MSO is "broken" or not, both sides have good points. Let's assume it is for the sake of this post.

SOA is essentially a band-aid for a meta perceived as broken. Band-aids arent a good way to solve these kinds of problems.

More importantly, MSO's current culture, like it or not, happened organically even though it probably started with similar ideals. That happened for a reason and that reason needs to be addressed, and I think Jon's post is addressing these issues in a good way and getting straight to the source.

If we don't fix the real issues, and have SOA, even with the best intentions, what happens when SOA culture inevitably goes down the same path? Do we get SOAA? Then SOAAA? You may think SOA is "different" or that it starts with "better principals" but MSO I'm sure didn't start with a philosophy of becoming an unfriendly (again, assumptions for sake of discussion) place to ask these types of questions either. We are we are today because we arrived here naturally.

Solve the problem at its source. Don't keep putting it off with band-aids, or by slapping a new site theme and URL on a meta-in-disguise.

Besides there seems to be some attitude here that "Ah! MSO is screwed!" This is a very dynamic system we have here. It can change, and probably quickly. Hell, the SO "culture" (at least as related to this type of thing) does a full 180 every time the close-vote reasons are re-evaluated. So cut the doomsday "MSO is screwed, SOA is our only hope" and solve the real problems.

Take whatever philosophical changes you want to make on SOA and apply them here instead.

The SOA proposal was just an easy way to attempt to get out of dealing with harder problems, which will still exist on MSO and SOA. Who would participate on SOA anyways? A whole new set of people? Or the same people (us) that have organically driven MSO culture to its current state anyways?

In short, I fully support the decision to close the proposal, and everything Jon said in the OP. Even more so I fully support that this discussion is being brought to everybody's attention, and I retract the comments I made on the OP about this not being a big deal, as @AnnaLear brings up a good point:

The "big deal" here isn't the SOA proposal or its closure. It's the discussion among the SO community about whether or not MSO can have an educational component as Jon describes. That, I think, is deserving of the [featured] tag.

Keeping it somewhat (because I type fast) brief (because I don't have a lot of time), my take on it is simply this:

Personally I think it's up for debate whether MSO is "broken" or not, both sides have good points. Let's assume it is for the sake of this post.

SOA is essentially a band-aid for a meta perceived as broken. Band-aids arent a good way to solve these kinds of problems.

More importantly, MSO's current culture, like it or not, happened organically even though it probably started with similar ideals. That happened for a reason and that reason needs to be addressed, and I think Jon's post is addressing these issues in a good way and getting straight to the source.

If we don't fix the real issues, and have SOA, even with the best intentions, what happens when SOA culture inevitably goes down the same path? Do we get SOAA? Then SOAAA? You may think SOA is "different" or that it starts with "better principals" but MSO I'm sure didn't start with a philosophy of becoming an unfriendly (again, assumptions for sake of discussion) place to ask these types of questions either. We are who we are today because we arrived here naturally.

Solve the problem at its source. Don't keep putting it off with band-aids, or by slapping a new site theme and URL on a meta-in-disguise.

Besides there seems to be some attitude here that "Ah! MSO is screwed!" This is a very dynamic system we have here. It can change, and probably quickly. Hell, the SO "culture" (at least as related to this type of thing) does a full 180 every time the close-vote reasons are re-evaluated. So cut the doomsday "MSO is screwed, SOA is our only hope" and solve the real problems.

Take whatever philosophical changes you want to make on SOA and apply them here instead.

The SOA proposal was just an easy way to attempt to get out of dealing with harder problems, which will still exist on MSO and SOA. Who would participate on SOA anyways? A whole new set of people? Or the same people (us) that have organically driven MSO culture to its current state anyways?

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Jason C
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In short, I fully support the decision to close the proposal, and everything Jon said in the OP. Even more so I fully support that this discussion is being brought to everybody's attention, and I retract the comments I made on the OP about this not being a big deal, as @AnnaLear brings up a good point:

The "big deal" here isn't the SOA proposal or its closure. It's the discussion among the SO community about whether or not MSO can have an educational component as Jon describes. That, I think, is deserving of the [featured] tag.

Keeping it somewhat (because I type fast) brief (because I don't have a lot of time), my take on it is simply this:

Personally I think it's up for debate whether MSO is "broken" or not, both sides have good points. Let's assume it is for the sake of this post.

SOA is essentially a band-aid for a meta perceived as broken. Band-aids arent a good way to solve these kinds of problems.

More importantly, MSO's current culture, like it or not, happened organically even though it probably started with similar ideals. That happened for a reason and that reason needs to be addressed, and I think Jon's post is addressing these issues in a good way and getting straight to the source.

If we don't fix the real issues, and have SOA, even with the best intentions, what happens when SOA culture inevitably goes down the same path? Do we get SOAA? Then SOAAA? You may think SOA is "different" or that it starts with "better principals" but MSO I'm sure didn't start with a philosophy of becoming an unfriendly (again, assumptions for sake of discussion) place to ask these types of questions either. We are we are today because we arrived here naturally.

Solve the problem at its source. Don't keep putting it off with band-aids, or by slapping a new site theme and URL on a meta-in-disguise.

Besides there seems to be some attitude here that "Ah! MSO is screwed!" This is a very dynamic system we have here. It can change, and probably quickly. Hell, the SO "culture" (at least as related to this type of thing) does a full 180 every time the close-vote reasons are re-evaluated. So cut the doomsday "MSO is screwed, SOA is our only hope" and solve the real problems.

Take whatever philosophical changes you want to make on SOA and apply them here instead.

The SOA proposal was just an easy way to attempt to get out of dealing with harder problems, which will still exist on MSO and SOA. Who would participate on SOA anyways? A whole new set of people? Or the same people (us) that have organically driven MSO culture to its current state anyways?