Timeline for Contrived homework questions
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
43 events
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Nov 22, 2017 at 19:39 | comment | added | PM 2Ring | AsThomas Landauer points out, these questions can be very frustrating to try and answer when the OP is unable to clearly articulate the restrictions. It's even more "fun" when they don't even mention the restrictions up front, but slowly reveal them, one by one, as the answers come rolling in. :( | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 19:36 | comment | added | PM 2Ring |
I think most of us would agree that it's often necessary for a teacher to impose some unrealistic restrictions in homework questions: if the assignment is about using switch , the students need to use switch . But we often see questions where the restrictions are so extreme that the resulting code bears little resemblance to what a good coder would feel comfortable writing, and one has to wonder how long will it take for these students to develop a sense for what real code looks like when all they ever see is this classroom-golf code.
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May 23, 2017 at 12:38 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
replaced http://stackoverflow.com/ with https://stackoverflow.com/
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Nov 30, 2015 at 14:21 | comment | added | Thomas Landauer | Here's an example of a question where the restrictions are unclear: stackoverflow.com/a/34000004/1668200 (i.e. "use only things we've learned so far"). | |
Feb 18, 2015 at 21:35 | comment | added | FCo | @AshleyMedway I completely agree. When I browse the new questions with tags such as C and C++, I often see questions where the student clearly did not pay attention, has no idea what is going on, and just wants a quick answer so they can get the credit, get the A, and move on. Homework questions, in my opinion, should be tagged as off-topic because they are almost always not practical and too specific to just the problem that has been assigned. Most homework questions could also be answered by just reading other SO questions and answers and extrapolating them. | |
Sep 1, 2014 at 22:43 | history | edited | AstroCB | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
The legal name is 'Stack Overflow' (two words, capitalized); Stack Exchange has an advanced revision history system: please don't include 'Edit' with edits, as the revision history makes the timing of your edits clear; the proper spelling (despite the tag name) is 'downvote' (one word).
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Aug 5, 2014 at 13:43 | vote | accept | Matt Burland | ||
Jul 31, 2014 at 6:44 | comment | added | Ashley Medway | Homework is not irrelevant getting someone else to do your homework is cheating. If this was Homework at a university level you could be removed from your course. Any teacher worth the job would have fully covered what is needed to complete the homework task. So if someone is unable to complete the homework then they should have paid more attention in the class. Moreover the user has almost never attempted anything themselves so I was always flag homework questions as off-topic. In all honesty I think it should be a close reason! I would like to think StackOverflow does not condone cheating | |
Jul 30, 2014 at 15:18 | comment | added | jww | Related: How do I ask and answer homework questions?. | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 12:37 | answer | added | Davidmh | timeline score: 7 | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 10:31 | comment | added | Joe | Homework is irrelevant. If I have a problem that I can't solve, it doesn't matter if it was a problem given to me by my teacher, or my boss. Sure, homework tends to have ridiculous restrictions, but try working in a company which has a paranoid management who have a firm grip on how the code is produced. | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 10:04 | history | edited | ЯegDwight | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
edited body
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Jul 29, 2014 at 9:59 | comment | added | Ashley Medway |
Homework.StackOverflow.com or ToLazyToDoItMyself.StackOverflow.com
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Jul 29, 2014 at 9:56 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | In a way homework questions are similar to codegolf in that they are artificial puzzles without the full realworld relevance. Maybe we can get rid of some homework questions and give them away to codegolf. | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 8:04 | comment | added | JimmyB | Anyone remembers the good 'ole "Homework" tag? It was removed some time ago. I recon it would, among other things, denote clearly that the question is likely not about the "professional" way to solve a problem but about the educating. - Voting to re-initroduce the "Homework" tag. | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 7:40 | answer | added | HostileFork says dont trust SE | timeline score: 20 | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 7:21 | comment | added | GolezTrol | I use those questions as a motive for yelling at teachers. I think it should be perfectly possible to make an actual good use case for a switch statement. Nevertheless, I think the question in itself is legit and can very well be answered within the limits defined by the teacher. Like @thegrinner mentioned above: in 'real life programming' similar bounds can be defined. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 22:03 | comment | added | Hot Licks | There is some merit in the "artificial" restrictions, in that they teach students to actually think about the problem rather than look for some "canned" answer. (Or at least that would be the case if the students didn't then come to SO asking for a "canned" answer.) Knowing how to do calendrical calculations with mathematical primitives, eg, is not only useful in itself, but it gives students valuable practice with modular arithmetic and other concepts. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 20:57 | answer | added | Raedwald | timeline score: 3 | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 20:51 | comment | added | Matt Burland | @Raedwald: Yeah, this is a case where too localized is missed. Seems like the perfect close reason, but I understand that it was abused in the past. The off topic because... doesn't really seem to contain a canned reason that quite captures the problem. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 20:41 | comment | added | Raedwald | See also meta.stackexchange.com/questions/184154/… | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 20:38 | comment | added | Raedwald | See also meta.stackexchange.com/questions/105365/… | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 20:35 | comment | added | Raedwald | A question with an unrealistic arbitrary restriction is arguably too localised, which used to be an allowed close reason. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 20:03 | comment | added | Dan Is Fiddling By Firelight | @ParagS.Chandakkar It's also worth noting that Math.SE is considering deleting it's homework tag as well; with the current vote ~4:1 in favor of removing it. They haven't had the same deluge of crap as we suffered from here; but the prevailing feeling there is that it's a metatag which is often forgotten and doesn't really add anything except noise anyway. meta.math.stackexchange.com/questions/14981/… | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 20:00 | comment | added | Dan Is Fiddling By Firelight | Because other SE sites are allowed to make their own rules; it was an awe inspiring (in the old school causing terror sense) sewer of crap questions on SO despite years of people trying to nuke the influx of new trash questions as they were posted. When we decided to clean it out 2 years ago one of the results was that Marshal badges were handed out like candy on the 4th of July because it was possible to sort the tag by vote and flag 80 or 90% of the negative score questions for destruction. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 19:54 | comment | added | Autonomous | @DanNeely Then why have that Tag on math.stackexchange.com and remove it on Stack Overflow. Even programming in a new language could be as mysterious as solving a maths problem :P :). | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 19:10 | comment | added | Dan Is Fiddling By Firelight | @ParagS.Chandakkar troll much? If I'm mistaken about your intent and it was an honest question, see: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/147100/… | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 19:06 | comment | added | Matt Burland | @FrankN.Stein: I don't think being homework is a reason to close. It's not about it being homework, but rather about being restricted in some arbitrary way that makes the answer pretty much useless for anybody else. A homework question without some silly restriction would be just fine. A homework question could even have some sensible restrictions that seem more like real-life restrictions and be okay for SO. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 19:04 | comment | added | Matt Burland | @ParagS.Chandakkar: Because the homework tag was already burned. I doubt anybody wants to resurrect it. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 19:03 | comment | added | Autonomous |
Why not have a homework tag?
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Jul 28, 2014 at 19:03 | comment | added | Phantômaxx | I suggest a new close reason: "Seems like a homework assignment". | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 18:54 | comment | added | Matt Burland |
@thegrinner: For sure, but I could also argue, depending on the level of pure arbitrariness of the restriction, that a lot of those question aren't terribly useful to anybody else either. But there is definitely a level of arbitrary restriction that comes up with homework questions, such as "use a switch statement" which are a level above those real-life restrictions.
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Jul 28, 2014 at 18:39 | comment | added | thegrinner | Keep in mind that sometimes contrived questions show up in real life too. "I can't use proper encryption because the hardware I interact with doesn't support SSL." "I can't use Joda-Time because my boss is convinced it will bring about the apocalypse." "I can't use library X because legal is convinced Y." "Our coding standards say no regex ever because reasons." etc etc | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 16:48 | comment | added | πάντα ῥεῖ | @MattBurland If I see such questions, stating a silly restriction, I'm tending just to close it as 'Unclear what you're asking' :P ... | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 16:47 | answer | added | Andy Clifton | timeline score: 58 | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 15:53 | answer | added | Patricia Shanahan | timeline score: -25 | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 15:49 | comment | added | Hans Passant | Yes. And he's already got his answer, copy/pasted it into his homework assignment, turned it in pretending it was his work so fairness is only something that he and his teacher need to work out. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 15:39 | history | edited | Matt Burland | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 849 characters in body
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Jul 28, 2014 at 15:32 | comment | added | Matt Burland | @HansPassant: True enough. It didn't even occur to me to do that and this is undoubtedly a bad question. But what if it was a good question except for the presence of a silly restriction on the solution (imposed by the instructor). Would it be appropriate to vote to delete on the grounds that it's too contrived to be useful to anybody who isn't in the same class answering the same question? And, if so, what of the person asking the question and trying to learn. It seems a bit unfair to refuse to help them just because their instructor gave them a silly question. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 15:05 | comment | added | Hans Passant | You have sufficient rights to vote to delete that question. Feel free to use it. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 14:01 | comment | added | Matt Burland | @Joe: That's true, and you'd certainly hope that a) somebody wouldn't blindly use the solution and b) somebody will either post an answer, or at least a comment with the better (non-restricted) solution. But the question still remains that given that, is the original (restricted) question even useful? I vaguely remember their used to be a "too narrow" close reason and that would seem to apply here. | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 13:58 | comment | added | Joe | If people come across this and blindly use the solution without reading everything properly, that's their loss and there is nothing we can do about it. In your example pretty much every response has been "don't use a switch, use the built in method", I imagine the same applies to all of these kind of questions | |
Jul 28, 2014 at 13:51 | history | asked | Matt Burland | CC BY-SA 3.0 |