Timeline for Should downvotes lower rep more than just -2?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
21 events
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Aug 8, 2014 at 13:33 | comment | added | Jon | But, the problem is, it should not be about what you don't like (you, in the collective sense). It should be about sharing knowledge and disseminating information. We are not the stone-masons of yesteryear who worry that sharing information will cost us our jobs. If you feel the question is vague, explain why. If you feel it shows no effort to self-educate, give a short note as to why you feel that way. Sometimes, a concept is so new to someone, they might not know the proper terminology to phrase the question the right way. Slapping them upside the head because of that, is not helpful. | |
Aug 7, 2014 at 8:32 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | Also, what's an "elder"? It takes one good answer that's widely seen to earn the rep needed to downvote. Maybe a couple in lower-traffic tags, and I suppose it takes a while in the ghost towns. But we're not talking about some small cabal here, it's "all regular contributors". I get that people don't enjoy being judged wrong, but that's the risk they take posting on a system that has up/down voting (more properly: the risk they taking choosing to game for rep, since if they post but don't care about rep they won't feel punished). Stuff that people don't like gets downvoted. Big deal. | |
Aug 7, 2014 at 8:24 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | But if by "only cause one loss of rep" you mean the first downvote should strip a bunch of rep, but subsequent downvotes should not keep chipping away at it: I think that's possibly giving too much influence to the one weird person who thinks X is bad, for almost any value of X, when everyone else thinks it's good. On the other hand, if it means people only act like they're the victim of police brutality after the first downvote, instead of doing so over each one individually, then it might be a net gain. Not sure. | |
Aug 7, 2014 at 8:18 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | @Jon: you're mistaken (or anyway have a very minority opinion) as to the primary purpose of the downvotes. The idea is that the more people there are who think the question is bad, the lower its score should be. Therefore everyone who thinks the question is bad should downvote it. The downvote is nothing to do with clubs, punishment, or improvement (although if there's a comment that would help, sure, people who are downvoting are well-placed to make it since they've already identified flaws). Sorry, but people crying because they lost 2 rep per downvote don't move me from that. Suck it up. | |
Aug 6, 2014 at 18:18 | comment | added | Jon | If you propose instead, to only cause one loss of rep because a question is deemed "bad" by an elder, then you'd have a more reasonable approach. Downvote all you like, all it will do is signal a supposedly poor question but it doesn't anonymously punish someone seeking knowledge. | |
Aug 6, 2014 at 18:16 | comment | added | Jon | @SteveJessop Another point: "when the questioner already has criticism of their question" If the questioner has already received a critique, then there is no further need to continuously hammer them (the, "Me too" mentality) with downvote after downvote, further eroding their rep. One downvote and associated rep downgrade is enough. Downvotes should not be used as clubs to punish users, but, rather as pointers to improve , if you're the questioner, or ignore, if you are a potential answerer. | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 18:27 | comment | added | Jon | SO is supposed to be about sharing knowledge... sometimes the basics are part of knowledge sharing and basics of any new (to the poster) concept can generate some questions which might appear elementary to a grizzled old guru but may be completely elusive to someone encountering that concept for the first time. | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 18:21 | comment | added | Jon | I speak from personal experience, where a few questions I've raised have garnered an almost immediate downvote with no reason given. I wouldn't raise the suggestion of attaching a name and reason to a downvote unless I had just cause. I suspect a couple of those were simply owing to some elites thinking the question too elementary and thus unworthy of being on SO. In other cases, I've had votes to close because the Q was deemed not related to programming, when it in fact, it was, at least in my opinion. | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 15:26 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | ... besides, if if the question is all that bad there'll be a close reason for the questioner to consider too, which at least is some explanation what's wrong with the question. | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 15:21 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | @Jon: you're speaking as if the choice is between "downvote with comment" or "downvote without comment". I think frequently he choice is between "downvote without comment" and "no feedback at all". As such, I don't think the comment is essential at all. Especially when the questioner already has criticism of their question. Actually I think the spectre you raise of bad question with downvotes but no explanations from which the questioner can improve, rarely happens. Forcing each individual downvoter to comment is a waste of their time. | |
Jul 29, 2014 at 14:29 | comment | added | Jon | @SteveJessop: It's more that just nice, it's rather essential for questioners to understand what is wrong with the question. If too vague, state why..the question might not appear very vague to the asker (who, if they were an expert on the subject, presumably wouldn't need to ask the question in the first place). | |
Jul 24, 2014 at 16:29 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | That said, I'd be cautiously in favour of experimenting with making both up and downvotes non-anonymous. Naturally there's a fear that it would feed the trolls and ragers. If someone is behaving badly then I'd prefer to warn others away without engaging them or giving them my name, thanks very much. But if there's net benefit from sacrificing that in favour of openness then OK, give it a whirl :-) | |
Jul 24, 2014 at 16:25 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | Nope. Downvoting is not some criminal punishment that must be justified and applied only after due procedure. It's a quick way to thumb questions up or down for the information of their author and potential readers. It's nice for the person being downvoted to know exactly who dislikes their question and exactly why, but it's nicer for the site to let people get on with rating things. The most common reason I downvote without commenting is that someone has already said the reason I'm downvoting. Don't make me fill SO with "me too" comments. | |
Jul 24, 2014 at 14:48 | comment | added | awksp | The idea of removing anonymous voting has been discussed to death in a bajillion other MSO questions. If you wish to discuss the merits of such a proposal I would suggest you move to a thread where such a thing is the focus of the question. | |
Jul 24, 2014 at 8:41 | comment | added | Biscuit128 | absolutely agree - this place is becoming an elitist faction allowing people to hide behind their pc's and impose their personal frustrations on to others - i don't know how many times I've read a comment from an established user stating a question is too vague. I don't really understand what they expect - the poster has come in search of knowledge - often trying to tackle a problem they are not so familiar with - these people seriously need to sort it out | |
Jul 23, 2014 at 17:10 | comment | added | Jon | @OGHaza Au contraire, mon ami, it has everything to do with the original Q. We are discussing the merits of downvotes and the elephant in the room is assigning ownership of and explanation behind a downvote. Seems many folks simply want grand downvoting powers with no accompanying responsibility. | |
Jul 23, 2014 at 17:08 | comment | added | Jon | @DanielVérité If you are too lazy or disinterested to spare a few moments to inform a user as to why you are downvoting their question, then move on to a question that better whets your appetite. | |
Jul 23, 2014 at 14:20 | comment | added | Daniel Vérité | Also consider that downvotes are not much to signal something to the asker than to the rest of the readers. It may mean: "don't waste your time on this question, I did already and it's hopeless." | |
Jul 23, 2014 at 14:20 | comment | added | OGHaza | This doesn't appear to have anything to do with the question. | |
Jul 23, 2014 at 14:18 | comment | added | Daniel Vérité | So instead of answering answerable questions, people would spend their entire time explaining why the non-answerable are non-answerable. And what is the benefit for the site? | |
Jul 23, 2014 at 13:25 | history | answered | Jon | CC BY-SA 3.0 |