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May 2 at 2:03 answer added Jason Shuler timeline score: -8
Apr 21, 2023 at 23:49 answer added Eduard G timeline score: -18
Oct 26, 2020 at 17:54 answer added Johan Nilsson timeline score: -13
Feb 17, 2020 at 8:17 history protected Jack Bashford
Nov 22, 2018 at 14:57 answer added Dan Rayson timeline score: -19
Dec 8, 2017 at 1:47 comment added Stefan Reich "At first I was frustrated with the down votes" - So everyone goes through that. I did too. Why don't we stop this nonsense then and do something positive?
Dec 7, 2016 at 19:34 comment added m4n0 We are very much elated.
Dec 7, 2016 at 18:34 comment added user3995702 IMO, SO has a group-think problem, not an elitism problem. It just can often appear as an elitism problem because it seems proportional to time here (boiling off everyone else?). I will be honest, I got fed up with SO and only read it now. The back breaker was an answer I wrote that sat at 0 for a day despite being the only answer to contain an explanation, only to receive a flood of downvotes after one guy disagreed with the wording of a sentence and everyone else, seeing -1, assumed it was wrong and followed. This kind of crap makes people not want to even think about contributing.
Dec 7, 2016 at 17:50 answer added Andymechanical timeline score: -13
Jul 9, 2016 at 10:47 answer added tomfl timeline score: 5
Jan 3, 2016 at 16:30 answer added Martin Maat timeline score: 7
Aug 29, 2015 at 21:50 answer added Austin Sanderson timeline score: 1
Oct 7, 2014 at 15:14 comment added TylerH Yes, some people at StackOverflow are behaving in an elitist way. No, there is nothing wrong with that, seeing as StackOverflow is self-described as a community of professional and enthusiast programmers. Quality is inherent in the goal; SO's goal is to be the elite programming resource on the web. Therefore it is good to be elitist.
Oct 7, 2014 at 15:11 history edited TylerH CC BY-SA 3.0
Fixed a slightly misused expression (so many words refers specifically back to an instance with the same amount of words being used, if that makes sense), and capitalized Norse.
Sep 8, 2014 at 10:56 answer added Evil Washing Machine timeline score: 9
Aug 18, 2014 at 16:06 comment added user562566 @deceze Agreed. Just saying that I've received these comments myself, and I already have a couple thousand dollars in textbooks and have been in to programming for nearly a decade. Yes, I've asked some pretty noob questions when delving into a new area or perhaps a language I've never really touched, but if I just got an answer and not an ignorant comment, I'd have what I needed to move forward. Anyway I think we are of the same opinion.
Aug 18, 2014 at 15:56 comment added deceze Mod @Technik Certainly agreed. However, we do need to draw the line somewhere. Programming is not something that can be taught be individual questions and answers; you do need to study the basics using a coherent block of teaching material, like a book. Sometimes the answer is to read a book (IMO). Now there's just the fine line between expressing that as a recommendation and guidance in the right direction, or as condescending snark.
Aug 18, 2014 at 15:48 comment added user562566 I think the elitist comments come up when people are making jerk comments like "read a book". I see it all the time, the attitude is basically "you're asking this? wow, go read a book." That's a disgusting attitude because once upon a time, every single one of us couldn't even figure out how to not piss on ourselves. We should all remember where we've come from. I find a lot of ignorant, condescending elitism on SE sites.
Aug 18, 2014 at 8:49 history edited user456814
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Jul 21, 2014 at 21:04 comment added deceze Mod @DasBeasto Alright. However, I find in practice both are the same. Hardly ever do I encounter something non-trivial that gets closed and stays closed. Pretty much everything that does get closed is objectively trivial and should be easily found in a manual, tutorial or book. And yes, because programming isn't something you pick up on a Sunday afternoon from scratch, I expect people to at least have pursued these avenues before coming to SO.
Jul 21, 2014 at 21:00 comment added DasBeasto @deceze haha good question but I meant it in terms of I could think someone asking a question about how to make virtual dolphins with arms 'too easy' because I have been doing it my whole life and figure its common knowledge and downvote it, while "easily found" criteria would be if theres answers on google or easily searched. tldr; too easy is relative, easily found is more concrete.
Jul 21, 2014 at 20:45 comment added NoDataDumpNoContribution @deceze "too easy" = not enough research, "easily found" = not enough search, but maybe Beasto meant it different
Jul 21, 2014 at 20:42 comment added deceze Mod @DasBeasto Where's the difference between "too easy" and "easily found"? :-3
Jul 21, 2014 at 20:32 comment added DasBeasto @Trilarion Oh oops I meant if it 'isnt' groundbreaking no one cares, emphasizing that trivial but still valid questions are ignored/downvoted. I didnt know there used to be a "lacks minimal knowledge" option, but I would think that is very opinionated, same as downvoting because the question is too "easy". In my opinion downvotes should only be handed out when the answer is a duplicate, easily found, or otherwise "wrong", not because someone simply doesnt like the question or thinks the user doesnt know enough.
Jul 21, 2014 at 20:24 comment added NoDataDumpNoContribution @DasBeasto Some people downvote seemingly trivial question because they want the "lacks minimal understanding" close reason back. As for the groundbreaking questions that aren't upvoted, maybe voters are just not smart enough to realize the groundbreaking. If you look at the highest voted question you see that they are fairly standard usages of highly popular programming languages or tools. That's what people find helpful. In the end SO is a better manual.
Jul 21, 2014 at 15:34 comment added DasBeasto I didn't read all of these responses but in my experience its seems that sometimes a valid question, with no duplicate, is downvoted or closed. Seemingly because it is too trivial, and that if the question is groundbreaking or some bug/glitch in something then SO just doesnt care.
Jul 18, 2014 at 3:01 review Close votes
Jul 18, 2014 at 7:44
Jul 11, 2014 at 21:24 vote accept decezeMod
Jul 11, 2014 at 17:07 answer added Giacomo1968 timeline score: 140
Jul 6, 2014 at 8:41 comment added kapa @Chris If you do not understand the explanation, it is not certainly their fault. Assume good intentions on their side. Have you asked? Have you checked help? Have you asked on Meta? I think we should stop discussing what the community can do for users (mostly beginners), because it already does a lot, and start discussing what the users can and should do for the community.
Jul 6, 2014 at 8:24 comment added kapa @Chris In its current form, your comment is only a complaint. Nothing to do with elitism. We only know your question was closed, and you claim it was a mistake. We have no way to know whether it is true, or you are just one of those angry users who complain at any moment, in any topic. As I said, please do not add an answer here, this is about whether SO is elitist as a whole, and whether that is a problem if it is. If you feel you have been treated unfairly, go to SF Meta and ask, add a link to your closed question, explain why they were wrong (in a respectful way, no rants).
Jul 6, 2014 at 7:56 comment added user456814 @deceze you've turned this into another Why is Stack Overflow so negative of late? question :P
Jul 6, 2014 at 7:41 answer added Jay Haase timeline score: 5
Jul 6, 2014 at 7:22 comment added kapa @chris If you are so concerned about the terrible insults against you, why not open a meta post and complain there? We are having a discussion here, and I don't see how your complaints about SF mistreating you add to this.
Jul 6, 2014 at 0:45 review Close votes
Jul 6, 2014 at 18:44
Jul 5, 2014 at 22:01 answer added nil timeline score: 5
Jul 5, 2014 at 19:52 comment added deceze Mod @Chris Let's put it this way: I've asked a few questions on SF and have gotten excellent responses and actual help to some rather complex questions. OTOH, I've asked some non-trivial questions on SO and have gotten zilch.
Jul 5, 2014 at 9:56 comment added Phantômaxx Well, this is a club. I think we are commoned by some interests (programming). We want to see good posts and reject bad ones. I don't think that a plumber or a grocer have something to add to our discussions. In this sense, yes, it is an elite. Obviously, nothing stops a grocer or a plumber to be great developers. In this case they might have great Q & A for us. This means that they too would be part of an elite.
Jul 5, 2014 at 8:20 comment added kapa @r3wt Babysitting is pointless, no time should be spent on that. Even though programming is competitive, tutorials, articles, answers and other resources are created for noobs everyday, for free, by people doing that in their free time. Experts have already done their part, they are sharing their knowledge, even though they are not obligated to do so. Noobs are responsible for their own improvement, they are not "entitled" to receive free babysitting (and that will never make them a programmer).
Jul 4, 2014 at 17:52 comment added r3wt @jacks4jokers i'm slowly coming around to this viewpoint as well. programming is competitive, and no one has time to babysit a noob.
Jul 4, 2014 at 16:26 comment added MichaelGofron I've been on Stack Overflow for two months, and I have realized that the questions I asked in my first week on this site were terribly written with inadequate information. It might make you uncomfortable to be downvoted but that's what growth is all about.
Jul 4, 2014 at 16:13 answer added Liam timeline score: -1
Jul 4, 2014 at 15:36 comment added Pekka I was rejected from a Master's program in rocket science at Harvard just because I know nothing about physics and chemistry. Those elitist pigs.
Jul 4, 2014 at 15:34 answer added Erich Kitzmueller timeline score: 9
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:54 comment added kapa @mb21 People are involved, yes. And they tend to think everything is about them. That's the main problem. But that leads far, to the conclusion that the only thing that prevents them from getting what they need (an answer in our case) is themselves. But they will surely blame SO, the community, some user, elitism, etc.
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:36 comment added mb21 @kapa I know what you're trying to say. But I believe that all communication is on some level about people. Some person is asking a question and some other person is answering...
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:21 answer added Fer timeline score: 14
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:14 comment added deceze Mod @kapa That's probably hitting the nail on the head.
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:12 comment added kapa @deceze IMO it's a quite different situation. SO is not about people, it is admittedly not a social site. It is about questions and answers. These are what are judged and evaluated by some rules, not people. Confusion comes when people think it is about them (selfishly).
Jul 4, 2014 at 12:03 answer added Cees Timmerman timeline score: 0
Jul 4, 2014 at 11:40 comment added deceze Mod @mb21 Interesting article there. The question is, to what extend does this really apply to SO? (That's the question here.)
Jul 4, 2014 at 11:37 comment added Jörg W Mittag I'm always wary when I see the word "elitist". What does that even mean? During Obama's first campaign, he was attacked by the right as being "elitist". Well, he was campaigning to be the leader of the USA and the entire Free World, the most powerful person on the planet … of course, you want that person to be the best and brightest! If "leader of the world" is not an elite position, then what is? Likewise, what's wrong with wanting to have high-quality content? I take being an elite member as a compliment, not an insult.
Jul 4, 2014 at 11:35 answer added Nobilis timeline score: 0
Jul 4, 2014 at 11:08 comment added kapa @mb21 Asking a good SO question is a more specific subset of asking a good question, with some added rules (has to be about programming, etc., explained in detail in the help section). You need this basic skill in every area of your life, otherwise you cannot receive the answers you need, you become misguided. About elitism: do we care whether they call us elitist? I certainly don't. It's their opinion that has nothing to do with me. I only care whether they create destructive noise on this site with their "contributions" or not.
Jul 4, 2014 at 10:53 comment added mb21 yeah, but where does "asking a good question" end and "asking a good SO question" start? I'm just saying that sometimes a link to a page explaining "how SO works" as a friendly reminder might cause fewer people to call us elitists... related: carlos.bueno.org/2014/06/mirrortocracy.html
Jul 4, 2014 at 10:47 comment added kapa @mb21 I am not talking about a good SO question, but simply a good, answerable question. That is a basic skill. Following well-written guidelines (introducing people into our community!) is another basic skill. Familiarizing yourself with the rules of a community before trolling around is a basic social skill. Combining these basic skills (and maybe a few more) and some effort you will ask good SO questions. Simple. Cannot do these? Sorry, you are wasting our time we would like to spend on helping people in a meaningful way.
Jul 4, 2014 at 10:47 comment added deceze Mod @mb21 True, but many people have written most extensiveliest about how SO works, precisely because nobody has the resources to tell each and every new user individually. Many still choose to ignore and/or not seek out that information.
Jul 4, 2014 at 10:43 comment added mb21 @kapa really? if we're not responsible for teaching "how to ask a good SO question", who is? I.e. who is responsible for introducing people into our community if not us?
Jul 4, 2014 at 10:34 comment added kapa @mb21 We are not responsible for teaching google-fu and how to ask a good question. Still, we provide some resources that would help with that, if people studied them, but it is not our responsibility, but the user's. There are some skills that are required for participation. For example you need to be able to speak English, you need to be able to ask an answerable question, you need to be able to understand and follow the rules, etc. If you do not have these, sorry, we cannot really help you. We never promised we will teach you these things.
Jul 4, 2014 at 10:27 comment added mb21 Exactly. Sometimes we forget that google-fu and asking a good question are skills to be learned as well.
Jul 4, 2014 at 10:24 comment added Jezcentral Yes, tone is important. Sometimes I read notes that are less then diplomatic to someone who has not found a previously posted question/answer that would tell them what to do. Sometimes people's google-fu is weak, or they unwittingly typo'd. Not that this necessarily comes from mods, but other users. This behaviour can't be managed by the mods, but it still makes an impression on the new user of the site as a whole.
Jul 4, 2014 at 10:16 comment added mb21 Yes, every community has its rules that it should enforce, e.g. closing duplicates. So while I usually agree with the actions, the tone is often elitist. When we close a question of a new user we should add a short but friendly comment/reminder, maybe with a link to the how-to-ask page.
Jul 4, 2014 at 10:13 comment added Jezcentral On a more generic level, elitism (valuing people by their knowledge/talent) is a good thing. The "but" is that it has to be done as a pure meritocracy. However, once the "elite" start abusing their position, and the power that comes with it, to keep their status, rather than being allowed to fail, you end up with nepotism, stagnation, etc. (See banking, politics and a whole lot more). With great moderator power comes great responsibility. Depending on your worldview, the definition of "elitism" is either the former, which is an ideal (to me, at least) or the latter, which is not.
Jul 4, 2014 at 9:44 comment added kapa @deceze That is normal. Every community that works well will be rushed by people who are only interested in enjoying the advantages, but not really in abiding the rules. They do not understand that it was the rules that helped achieving the advantages. They criticize simply because they do not get what they want. You need gates or some kind of mechanism that lets you protect your community, because these people would ruin it in the long term. But this is also for them. When they realize the motives and reasoning behind the rules, there will still be a place they can join and enjoy...
Jul 4, 2014 at 9:33 comment added deceze Mod @kapa And I believe some people feel that the town is becoming a gated community obsessed with itself and only itself. Hence the question...
Jul 4, 2014 at 9:31 comment added kapa The rules can be read on a signpost before you enter the town. The rules are accepted by the community of the town and are crafted carefully to help achieving their goals and living together without big problems. They welcome you, and the only thing they ask is you read and abide the rules. If you decide to enter the town, you can read the rules or not, abide them or not, but from then on every consequence you face is caused by your decisions, and not the community or the rules. This is what people should understand.
Jul 4, 2014 at 8:48 comment added deceze Mod @paulkayuk So, is there something wrong with that? ;P
Jul 4, 2014 at 8:45 comment added paulkayuk Isn't using the term Mjölnir'd a sign of elitism?
Jul 4, 2014 at 8:45 answer added Saty timeline score: 9
Jul 4, 2014 at 8:42 comment added user146043 Only the elite - those who can write a clear question which clearly explains the problem and what they've tried - are welcome here! How dare we exclude questions which betray no effort, no willingness to stop and think for a moment about what they want, read the error message or search for similar questions?
Jul 4, 2014 at 8:19 comment added link Mjölnir'd. Brilliant. +1.
Jul 3, 2014 at 19:26 comment added Sam I am says Reinstate Monica Reading through the posts here on Meta about how we're overrun with help vampires and reputation whores makes StackOverflow seem a lot more elitist than it actually is. In practice, if you ask a basic easy to read and easy to answer question, you're a lot more likely to be rewarded for it than you are to be punished.
Jul 3, 2014 at 19:04 answer added AstroCB timeline score: 19
Jul 3, 2014 at 17:15 answer added Kendra timeline score: 38
Jul 3, 2014 at 15:01 comment added Dave I think elitism is shown more often in Close votes where some jump to conclusions the question is not worthy when in fact it is a legitimate problem, and not so much elitism when truly a dup question that should have not been asked again.
Jul 3, 2014 at 14:49 comment added jwg What do you think could possible change as an outcome of your claim that 'some users' have called 'some people closing questions' elitist?
Jul 3, 2014 at 14:40 comment added deceze Mod @jwg It's "can we have a [discussion] about the negative feedback we've been getting from some users and whether we should be doing something about it."
Jul 3, 2014 at 14:39 comment added jwg This isn't a question. It's just 'can we talk about people who ask bad questions' all over again.
Jul 3, 2014 at 13:56 comment added Hans Passant Well, as I noted, "this is not uncommon". The common perception is that programmers do things slightly more complex than programming the house thermostat and that anybody should be able to do that with a few weeks of effort.
Jul 3, 2014 at 13:23 comment added deceze Mod @HansPassant Note that I'm not talking about any particular "guy". I'm asking because I've seen the same sentiment more than once lately.
Jul 3, 2014 at 13:16 comment added Hans Passant The guy is an "aerospace engineer". The notion that him expecting to create a well-designed program is just as absurd as expecting a programmer to build a well-designed airplane is just completely lost on him. Not much point in taking any value judgement from somebody like that serious, he has just no idea what we do. This is not uncommon. Did that sound elitist enough? Thanks for the compliment :)
Jul 3, 2014 at 13:02 answer added Monolo timeline score: 14
Jul 3, 2014 at 12:51 comment added Tim Sanders I've been on SO for about 2 years. I don't have many points. Most of my questions have already been answered or related questions/answers help me obtain my solution. At first I was frustrated with the down votes because sometimes I could spend upward of 30 minutes crafting a question. Then I realized the points don't matter and having a well organized site with solutions to my problems is more important than "points". I don't think of it as elitism anymore, just people that care (given those people aren't asshats about it).
Jul 3, 2014 at 12:37 comment added deceze Mod @Michelle More friendly unicorns in the close-reason boxes! :D
Jul 3, 2014 at 12:35 answer added Raedwald timeline score: 128
Jul 3, 2014 at 12:34 comment added Michelle What's wrong with having a question marked as a duplicate? It helps OP by pointing them to an answer they obviously couldn't find on their own, and helps SO by having multiple wordings of a question pointing to one good answer, making it easier to find. Maybe we should all just be more cheerful about marking duplicates so it doesn't feel like a bad thing. "We found you an answer, hurray! :D"
Jul 3, 2014 at 12:30 answer added PlasmaHH timeline score: 7
Jul 3, 2014 at 12:24 answer added Amicable timeline score: 67
Jul 3, 2014 at 11:49 answer added Lundin timeline score: 29
Jul 3, 2014 at 11:32 answer added Ben Aaronson timeline score: 9
Jul 3, 2014 at 11:30 answer added slugster timeline score: 31
Jul 3, 2014 at 11:26 answer added NoDataDumpNoContribution timeline score: -11
Jul 3, 2014 at 11:13 history rollback BoltClockMod
Rollback to Revision 2
Jul 3, 2014 at 11:09 history edited Shadow Wizard
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Jul 3, 2014 at 11:03 comment added David Thomas Related: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/262055/…
Jul 3, 2014 at 10:42 history edited decezeMod CC BY-SA 3.0
added 486 characters in body
Jul 3, 2014 at 10:42 answer added paul23 timeline score: -33
Jul 3, 2014 at 10:31 answer added Jon Skeet timeline score: 473
Jul 3, 2014 at 10:27 comment added Oded StaffMod We are being elitists only by actually rejecting low quality/off-topic content. How dare we?
Jul 3, 2014 at 10:21 history asked decezeMod CC BY-SA 3.0