Timeline for Can we please have the "Lacks Minimal Understanding" close reason back?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
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Jan 19, 2023 at 6:41 | history | edited | Cody GrayMod |
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Jun 3, 2020 at 15:29 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
Commonmark migration
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May 20, 2020 at 12:24 | answer | added | klutt | timeline score: 7 | |
Apr 30, 2019 at 10:41 | comment | added | Hester Lyons | @DSlomer64 I was going to add something similar. When you suddenly change platforms you will run into beginner's problems, regardless of how professional you are. Currently in a workplace where nobody speaks Java so unfortunately SO becomes the place for the daft questions. After two weeks of banging your head against what appears to be a basic problem, a snarky response is really the last thing anyone needs. | |
Apr 22, 2019 at 20:00 | comment | added | EJoshuaS - Stand with Ukraine | Just to play the devil's advocate for a minute, couldn't you argue that the fact that the OP lacks even a minimal understanding of the topic would mean that we'd have to explain way too much to them in order to give a proper answer (and that the question is, therefore, too broad)? (Incidentally, I totally agree with bringing this close reason back). | |
Feb 8, 2019 at 22:09 | comment | added | faintsignal | PHP - How to add a specific character at the end of a string? | |
Jan 8, 2019 at 17:00 | answer | added | EJoshuaS - Stand with Ukraine | timeline score: -2 | |
Dec 5, 2018 at 22:07 | history | rollback | Makoto |
Rollback to Revision 7
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Dec 5, 2018 at 18:50 | history | edited | Robert Columbia |
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Jun 28, 2016 at 16:07 | answer | added | webworm | timeline score: -23 | |
Dec 24, 2015 at 22:22 | comment | added | Braiam | Can we lock the up/downvotes, I think this number should be kept. | |
Jul 14, 2015 at 17:56 | history | rollback | Benjamin Gruenbaum |
Rollback to Revision 5
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Jul 14, 2015 at 16:51 | history | edited | GEOCHET | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Jan 15, 2015 at 3:06 | comment | added | Criticizing Israel not allowed | This is the kind of question that needs this close reason. | |
Jul 15, 2014 at 19:28 | answer | added | ElmoVanKielmo | timeline score: 7 | |
Jun 9, 2014 at 14:19 | comment | added | Benjamin Gruenbaum | @AD7six I can't mark things as status-completed so :P | |
Jun 9, 2014 at 14:15 | history | rollback | ChrisFMod |
Rollback to Revision 3
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Jun 9, 2014 at 14:12 | vote | accept | Benjamin Gruenbaum | ||
Jun 9, 2014 at 14:12 | history | edited | Benjamin Gruenbaum | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Jun 9, 2014 at 0:39 | history | edited | wallyk | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Jun 6, 2014 at 16:01 | comment | added | jfa | @Plutonix back in my day they just slapped you with an 'RTFM' if you were lucky. Now it seems like all I hear is 'encourage a learning environment' and 'develop a nice community' and 'stop strangling interns'. | |
Jun 6, 2014 at 7:37 | comment | added | Ven | "real programmers" as in, people with prog-related work ? That'd be a terrible lockout. | |
Jun 6, 2014 at 6:01 | comment | added | Sebastian Lange | "Pebkac or eifoc related" would be a good close-vote reason | |
Jun 5, 2014 at 23:12 | comment | added | DSlomer64 | I am a 68-year-old somewhat-skilled but successful programmer of six decades in at least five major languages. I have been frustrated at almost every new turn by the weirdness that is Java (the only OO language I've tried), only to finally figure it out, only to realize at the next only-slightly-different situation that I haven't internalized whatever I thought I'd figured out and I'm back to square one. This isn't Turbo Pascal, not even C++. One has only so much nervous energy. When it's spent, a call goes out to SO and the LAST thing one needs is four downvotes and multiple snarkinesses. | |
Jun 5, 2014 at 20:36 | comment | added | Brodo Fraggins | I strongly disagree that snarky insults are unproductive. If anyone is deeply hurt by being gently mocked for being too lazy to Google something, they need a thicker skin. | |
Jun 5, 2014 at 16:04 | comment | added | Travis | @BrodoFraggins Yeah, no. lmgtfy links do nothing but make the poster feel better about insulting the person given the link. They're completely unproductive, and have no place in SO. If you don't want to answer, don't. If you want to tell them they need to do some more research themselves, then do that. If you want to refer them to a learning resource, do so, but lmgtfy links are nothing but snarky insults. | |
Jun 5, 2014 at 15:57 | answer | added | Kevin B | timeline score: -1 | |
Jun 5, 2014 at 15:46 | comment | added | S.L. Barth is on codidact.com | @bspymaster Code Review is specifically for code that does work, but needs improvement. | |
Jun 5, 2014 at 15:28 | answer | added | podiluska | timeline score: 0 | |
Jun 5, 2014 at 6:56 | comment | added | Patricia Shanahan | Similar to @BrodoFraggins "Google it", I see "debug my code" questions as a teaching moment, and often comment with a recommendation for a next step for the user to take to debug their own code. | |
Jun 4, 2014 at 23:24 | comment | added | Brodo Fraggins | How about "Google it." And whenever a question is so tagged, a lmgtfy link appears. | |
Jun 4, 2014 at 10:31 | comment | added | Benjamin Gruenbaum | @mehow related - yes, but I'd like to emphasize that that's exactly the sort of close reason I'd like to avoid because of the abuse potential it brings. | |
Jun 4, 2014 at 7:33 | comment | added | user2140173 |
I find this very closely related to Provide “Not enough effort” as a new close reason
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Jun 4, 2014 at 5:06 | comment | added | Ben Schwabe | I'd just like to add my two cents in since it doesn't seem like anyone has mentioned this yet... If we are "just debugging code" I think code review stack exchange site might help: codereview.stackexchange.com | |
Jun 3, 2014 at 21:45 | answer | added | Dev Kanchen | timeline score: 0 | |
Jun 3, 2014 at 21:04 | comment | added | gnat | how about "Unclear What Help You Need Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell what problem you are trying to solve or what aspect of your code needs to be corrected or explained. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question." | |
Jun 3, 2014 at 17:32 | comment | added | rayryeng | @Sparky: ... if I had a nickel every time that happened... (a.k.a. I have found this code (copy and paste job), it works for this input but I wish it to work on another input. How do I fix?). Bloody annoying it is. +1 for this post too. | |
Jun 3, 2014 at 17:32 | answer | added | demongolem | timeline score: 2 | |
Jun 3, 2014 at 17:27 | answer | added | A.J. Uppal | timeline score: 6 | |
Jun 3, 2014 at 8:05 | answer | added | MSalters | timeline score: 15 | |
Jun 3, 2014 at 7:18 | comment | added | Aron | @Shog9 Here is my shot at it. 1) Learn to program 2) Become Jon Skeet 3) ??? 4) Profit | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 23:20 | comment | added | Shog9 | That's because it can't be quantified, @hot; it's subjective. You feel like writing up The SO Guide to Professionalism? Be my guest... | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 23:20 | comment | added | Benjamin Gruenbaum | @HotLicks more likes - all these 'professionals' don't. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 23:15 | comment | added | Hot Licks | @Shog9 - I think you don't understand the distinction between professional and simply employed. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 18:03 | comment | added | Shog9 | I'm touched by your optimism, @Michael... But from what I've seen, all too many professional software developers are asking really, really terrible questions. If only doing something for a living was a guarantee of competence... | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 17:52 | comment | added | Michael | +1 I want to be a part of a site for professional software developers. SO would be a much nicer place (at least for me) if there were only real programmers writing questions and answers. crappy questions should be automatically migrated to "yahoo answers" ;) | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 17:36 | answer | added | Chris Baker | timeline score: 18 | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 17:34 | comment | added | David Fullerton Mod | You're missing a major requirement: it should be unambiguous so that closers use it consistently. Many of the answers here fail to meet that criteria. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 17:27 | answer | added | Robert CartainoMod | timeline score: 13 | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 17:13 | comment | added | Sparky | +1 "the OP has no idea what they're doing, they've found code on the internet, mixed it around and got something." ... and then asked us "fix it for me". | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 17:01 | answer | added | Shog9 | timeline score: 41 | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 14:10 | comment | added | just.another.programmer | @podiluska I thought about that before pointing it out here. To be honest, I only know about it b/c I had a question closed for that reason first. I was annoyed at the time that I had to do a lot more research to solve the problem, but they were right. I was not qualified to do the work and I needed more education before the answer would really be useful. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 14:03 | comment | added | podiluska | @just.another.programmer Now they'll remove it from SF! | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 14:00 | answer | added | Markus W Mahlberg | timeline score: -17 | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 13:04 | comment | added | just.another.programmer | They have this listed under the off-topic reason on SF "Questions must demonstrate a minimal understanding of the problem being solved. Try including attempted solutions, why they didn't work, and the expected results. See How can I ask better questions on Server Fault? for further guidance." I don't understand why SO cannot have a similar reason. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 12:43 | comment | added | Ben Aaronson | @BenjaminGruenbaum Well okay, that makes more sense, though it's not what the question's title indicates. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 12:18 | comment | added | Spook | I'd say, that we simply need a reason, which gently and politely says: "We are here to help you solve your problem; we will not freely write or debug code for you. Please don't abuse our generosity". Let's be honest - this is precisely how Stackoverflow works. This is the precise reason question doesn't belong here. Leaving the question open often leads to someone point-hungry debugging it and pointing out the problem. And in result we teach people, that they will find such help here. This is why such questions should be closed instead of only downvoted. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 12:10 | comment | added | Chris Gerken | Not sure why we want to beat around the bush. The OP would be the first to admit that they lack minimal understanding. If politeness is important, then send them a notification or display a message only they can see and tell them their question wasn't up to standards. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 12:03 | answer | added | BartoszKP | timeline score: 47 | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 11:53 | comment | added | Benjamin Gruenbaum | @BenAaronson more like I'm trying to find out if it's possible to come with a better close reason for those questions before I ask for it. I don't want to ask for another close reason before we can establish we need one, and can come up with a good one. This is why it's tagged with discussion and not feature request. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 11:25 | comment | added | user2338816 | I'd even be interested in knowing exactly why a small degree of rudeness is a particularly bad thing. I've encountered, and successfully gotten over, rudeness before. Being an adult helps with that. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 11:05 | comment | added | Matt Joyce | I call them 'how do i brain surgery with potato?' posts. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 8:50 | comment | added | Liam | Not this again | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 8:38 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | Won't such a close reason be abused again? I'm only for it if there is consensus what minimal understanding is. That means a detailed and practical description what is minimal understanding and what is not. | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 7:59 | comment | added | Ben Aaronson | This question is putting the cart before the horse. Why discuss the exact wording of the close reason without bothering to establish that there needs to be one at all? Why, as Bolt says, can't these questions just be edited or downvoted? | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 7:23 | answer | added | jmac | timeline score: 108 | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 1:50 | answer | added | hichris123 | timeline score: -3 | |
Jun 2, 2014 at 0:43 | comment | added | Hot Licks | Instead of LMU, how about LMAO? | |
Jun 1, 2014 at 11:39 | comment | added | Benjamin Gruenbaum | @BoltClock I have intentionally not included examples here because that would cause a flurry of up/down votes to them. The chat discussion we've had about it yesterday has some good examples imo. Since you hail from CSS, imagine a 40 LoC of HTML, 40 LoC of CSS question asking how to make a square corner look circular and transition it from the right (both these things have duplicates individually, it is clear). | |
Jun 1, 2014 at 7:30 | comment | added | juanchopanza |
@BoltClock No, often there is enough information ("you missed an ; ", "you forgot to include <string> ", "you are accessing an array out of bounds", "you are trying to access non-public data via a public interface" etc. On the other hand, "lacks minimal understanding" isn't a great alternative. I would favour re-phrasing and/or extending the "typo error" close reason to something closer in spirit to the old "too localised" one, i.e. something that emphasizes the uselessness of the question and its possible answer to other users of the site.
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Jun 1, 2014 at 7:30 | answer | added | Makoto | timeline score: 4 | |
Jun 1, 2014 at 4:31 | comment | added | BoltClock Mod | Also, all the examples you've listed are examples of "X not working" - the appropriate close reason to use for those questions would be "lacks sufficient information to diagnose the problem" - which sends a much clearer (and more fitting IMO) message than "lack of minimal understanding". | |
Jun 1, 2014 at 4:26 | comment | added | BoltClock Mod | Can you explain 1) how a question can be poorly-written, poorly-formatted and yet manage to be crystal-clear at the same time and 2) why such a question warrants closing and not just editing and/or downvoting (since if a question is crystal-clear it wouldn't make sense to close it as, you know, unclear)? | |
Jun 1, 2014 at 2:52 | comment | added | devnull | This would not be implemented, period. Who would want even the silliest of questions to be shot down? Traffic is king. | |
Jun 1, 2014 at 2:49 | comment | added | devnull | Some would argue that we should be nice to our new users. For example, this post. | |
Jun 1, 2014 at 2:44 | answer | added | Brock Adams | timeline score: 26 | |
Jun 1, 2014 at 2:02 | answer | added | Bernhard Barker | timeline score: 287 | |
Jun 1, 2014 at 0:09 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | On some other site the correct response would be "NYPA"... | |
May 31, 2014 at 23:56 | comment | added | Hans Passant | It is going to be a very hard sell. The last podcast made it pretty evident that revising the close reason menu is not on the agenda. Jay Hanlon isn't going to let it happen. The "too broad" reason always fits. In an ideal world, such a question would attract entirely too many answers. In the non-ideal real world, you'd have to write the effin' manual to get the user up to speed. | |
May 31, 2014 at 23:45 | history | edited | Benjamin Gruenbaum | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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May 31, 2014 at 23:39 | comment | added | psubsee2003 | I would love this idea as long as it isn't used as a catch-all "you are stupid" close reason, even if it is reworded. | |
May 31, 2014 at 23:18 | comment | added | charlietfl | add something to it like appears to lack... and it becomes less condescending | |
May 31, 2014 at 21:59 | comment | added | Ňɏssa Pøngjǣrdenlarp | sometimes LMU just fits. Q: What line of code does it crash on? A: When I click the Search button. I am not sure you can keep the low quality posts out and still not hurt a few feelings. | |
May 31, 2014 at 21:43 | answer | added | Raedwald | timeline score: 404 | |
May 31, 2014 at 21:35 | comment | added | László Papp | Following our chat conversation with Benjamin, I would suggest to extend the "lacks information" close reason with information about what the OP has tried, and not just about "diagnosing the problem", or well, if the current text is supposed to mean that, how about clarifying it? | |
May 31, 2014 at 21:21 | answer | added | WendiKidd | timeline score: 57 | |
May 31, 2014 at 21:04 | comment | added | Benjamin Gruenbaum | Perhaps, too localized covers a lot of those issues (but not all of them). Personally I would not object to having "Too Localized" back. | |
May 31, 2014 at 21:03 | comment | added | hichris123 | Is it just me or are you describing Too Localized? | |
May 31, 2014 at 21:01 | comment | added | Benjamin Gruenbaum | @FinalContest I completely agree, which is why I specified that what they have in common is a combination of formatting issues, lack of demonstrated research, poor writing and lots of specifity. | |
May 31, 2014 at 20:59 | comment | added | László Papp | 1) I am not sure what you mean by poorly written. There is already an "unclear" reason. 2) formatting issue is not a reason to close a valid question. 3) Any attempt of research is subjective, I would say. 4) The same goes to problem solving, so for 3)-4), what is the exact reason which is not subjective? 5) The last bullet point is not a reason itself. So far, I do not see any reason for the change. I have personally lacked a "homework" reason, but usually, the "other" category suits for me. | |
May 31, 2014 at 20:58 | answer | added | SomeKittens | timeline score: 26 | |
May 31, 2014 at 20:55 | answer | added | Madara's Ghost | timeline score: 8 | |
May 31, 2014 at 20:51 | history | asked | Benjamin Gruenbaum | CC BY-SA 3.0 |