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Why not split How about splitting Stack Overflow into two sites: Stack Overflow [Cathedral] and Stack Overflow Bazaar, one for reference, the other for debugging?

Do not prejudicially mark this thread as a duplicate of any of the following three threads, because it is a substantially different proposal based on a fundamentally different premise:

Would it be a terrible idea to split SO up into a tiered platform?

Should we fork Stack Overflow for beginning programmers?

Create a new Stack Overflow instance for beginner users and content

  1. The scale has vastly increased, and questions pour in faster than anyone can answer them.

    The scale has vastly increased, and questions pour in faster than anyone can answer them.

  2. The apparent quality of questions has declined. People apparently like grumbling about this, as evidenced by the half a thousand upvotes on the question and answer (compare and contrast to suggested solutions being downvoted into oblivion and closed).

    The apparent quality of questions has declined. People apparently like grumbling about this, as evidenced by the half a thousand upvotes on the question and answer (compare and contrast to suggested solutions being downvoted into oblivion and closed).

  1. Increased exposure has attracted a larger number of users. Even if the new users have the same general makeup/distribution as in the past, this still leads to a much higher absolute number of bad questions.

    Increased exposure has attracted a larger number of users. Even if the new users have the same general makeup/distribution as in the past, this still leads to a much higher absolute number of bad questions.

  2. The proportion of bad questions may have even increased, due to newer users being an unwashed barbarian horde (or maybe that's just an illusion due to the other factors causing veteran burnout and stress).

    The proportion of bad questions may have even increased, due to newer users being an unwashed barbarian horde (or maybe that's just an illusion due to the other factors causing veteran burnout and stress).

  3. Part of this is because the existing database of good answered questions has raised the bar for new ones: The most widely applicable good questions have already been asked and answered for most languages/technologies/etc. As a result, many new questions which would otherwise be good are actually duplicates (or apparent duplicates) of old answered questions.

    Part of this is because the existing database of good answered questions has raised the bar for new ones: The most widely applicable good questions have already been asked and answered for most languages/technologies/etc. As a result, many new questions which would otherwise be good are actually duplicates (or apparent duplicates) of old answered questions.

  1. Create a new bazaar-like Stack Exchange site meant for programming help that's too specific for Programmers but too "help-desky" for Stack Overflow or Code Review. Prominently advertise it on Stack Overflow's question submission page. Moderators could then feel free to capriciously move huge numbers of bad/borderline questions to that site with little to no resistance, because the question will still exist somewhere in answerable form (and the best ones can always be moved back).

    Create a new bazaar-like Stack Exchange site meant for programming help that's too specific for Programmers but too "help-desky" for Stack Overflow or Code Review. Prominently advertise it on Stack Overflow's question submission page. Moderators could then feel free to capriciously move huge numbers of bad/borderline questions to that site with little to no resistance, because the question will still exist somewhere in answerable form (and the best ones can always be moved back).

  2. Assume the "help vampires" will always know only about Stack Overflow (the Google of programming), so accept inevitability, let it become a cess pool, and move the good questions to programmingquestionsthatactuallymatter.stackexchange.com, a new cathedral-like site (working name only ;)). Really, this would be a matter of moving all existing questions there, then gradually removing the unwelcome ones back to Stack Overflow.

    Assume the "help vampires" will always know only about Stack Overflow (the Google of programming), so accept inevitability, let it become a cess pool, and move the good questions to programmingquestionsthatactuallymatter.stackexchange.com, a new cathedral-like site (working name only ;)). Really, this would be a matter of moving all existing questions there, then gradually removing the unwelcome ones back to Stack Overflow.

Why not split Stack Overflow into two sites: Stack Overflow [Cathedral] and Stack Overflow Bazaar?

Do not prejudicially mark this thread as a duplicate of any of the following three threads, because it is a substantially different proposal based on a fundamentally different premise:

Would it be a terrible idea to split SO up into a tiered platform?

Should we fork Stack Overflow for beginning programmers?

Create a new Stack Overflow instance for beginner users and content

  1. The scale has vastly increased, and questions pour in faster than anyone can answer them.
  2. The apparent quality of questions has declined. People apparently like grumbling about this, as evidenced by the half a thousand upvotes on the question and answer (compare and contrast to suggested solutions being downvoted into oblivion and closed).
  1. Increased exposure has attracted a larger number of users. Even if the new users have the same general makeup/distribution as in the past, this still leads to a much higher absolute number of bad questions.
  2. The proportion of bad questions may have even increased, due to newer users being an unwashed barbarian horde (or maybe that's just an illusion due to the other factors causing veteran burnout and stress).
  3. Part of this is because the existing database of good answered questions has raised the bar for new ones: The most widely applicable good questions have already been asked and answered for most languages/technologies/etc. As a result, many new questions which would otherwise be good are actually duplicates (or apparent duplicates) of old answered questions.
  1. Create a new bazaar-like Stack Exchange site meant for programming help that's too specific for Programmers but too "help-desky" for Stack Overflow or Code Review. Prominently advertise it on Stack Overflow's question submission page. Moderators could then feel free to capriciously move huge numbers of bad/borderline questions to that site with little to no resistance, because the question will still exist somewhere in answerable form (and the best ones can always be moved back).
  2. Assume the "help vampires" will always know only about Stack Overflow (the Google of programming), so accept inevitability, let it become a cess pool, and move the good questions to programmingquestionsthatactuallymatter.stackexchange.com, a new cathedral-like site (working name only ;)). Really, this would be a matter of moving all existing questions there, then gradually removing the unwelcome ones back to Stack Overflow.

How about splitting Stack Overflow into two sites, one for reference, the other for debugging?

Do not mark this thread as a duplicate of any of the following three threads, because it is a substantially different proposal based on a fundamentally different premise:

  1. The scale has vastly increased, and questions pour in faster than anyone can answer them.

  2. The apparent quality of questions has declined. People apparently like grumbling about this, as evidenced by the half a thousand upvotes on the question and answer (compare and contrast to suggested solutions being downvoted into oblivion and closed).

  1. Increased exposure has attracted a larger number of users. Even if the new users have the same general makeup/distribution as in the past, this still leads to a much higher absolute number of bad questions.

  2. The proportion of bad questions may have even increased, due to newer users being an unwashed barbarian horde (or maybe that's just an illusion due to the other factors causing veteran burnout and stress).

  3. Part of this is because the existing database of good answered questions has raised the bar for new ones: The most widely applicable good questions have already been asked and answered for most languages/technologies/etc. As a result, many new questions which would otherwise be good are actually duplicates (or apparent duplicates) of old answered questions.

  1. Create a new bazaar-like Stack Exchange site meant for programming help that's too specific for Programmers but too "help-desky" for Stack Overflow or Code Review. Prominently advertise it on Stack Overflow's question submission page. Moderators could then feel free to capriciously move huge numbers of bad/borderline questions to that site with little to no resistance, because the question will still exist somewhere in answerable form (and the best ones can always be moved back).

  2. Assume the "help vampires" will always know only about Stack Overflow (the Google of programming), so accept inevitability, let it become a cess pool, and move the good questions to programmingquestionsthatactuallymatter.stackexchange.com, a new cathedral-like site (working name only ;)). Really, this would be a matter of moving all existing questions there, then gradually removing the unwelcome ones back to Stack Overflow.

Add clearly answerable questions to the end of the proposal
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Mike S
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Exclusively moderation-focused suggestions involving more closures and noob curbstomping may be more cathartic for some, but I believe anything less than splitting Stack Overflow into distinct cathedral and bazaar communities is just a band-aid. I submit this in the hope that serious well-reasoned arguments will follow regarding whether a1. or b2. is the more appropriate option for separating two classes of questions that clearly don't belong on the same site.

Your Input?

If you believe a site split is warranted, which direction would you prefer among the two above? If a site split is a bad idea, why is it a bad idea? Can you cite a reason why it would be inferior to the current close queue, or do you simply believe it would not help enough to justify the effort?

Exclusively moderation-focused suggestions involving more closures and noob curbstomping may be more cathartic for some, but I believe anything less than splitting Stack Overflow into distinct cathedral and bazaar communities is just a band-aid. I submit this in the hope that serious well-reasoned arguments will follow regarding whether a. or b. is the more appropriate option for separating two classes of questions that clearly don't belong on the same site.

Exclusively moderation-focused suggestions involving more closures and noob curbstomping may be more cathartic for some, but I believe anything less than splitting Stack Overflow into distinct cathedral and bazaar communities is just a band-aid. I submit this in the hope that serious well-reasoned arguments will follow regarding whether 1. or 2. is the more appropriate option for separating two classes of questions that clearly don't belong on the same site.

Your Input?

If you believe a site split is warranted, which direction would you prefer among the two above? If a site split is a bad idea, why is it a bad idea? Can you cite a reason why it would be inferior to the current close queue, or do you simply believe it would not help enough to justify the effort?

Deleted a useless paragraph and hopefully improved the headings
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Mike S
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Mike S
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