Timeline for How can we discourage over-downvoting on questions?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
74 events
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Mar 10, 2023 at 8:04 | history | edited | Cody GrayMod |
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Aug 11, 2022 at 18:48 | history | edited | BSMP | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Grammar corrections, fixed list formatting.
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Sep 15, 2018 at 19:22 | comment | added | Alexander Petrov | @bjb568 I mean what is there inside a question that you can dissagree with. I understand to dissagree with a statement, but to dissagree with a question. Come on.... | |
Sep 15, 2018 at 19:20 | comment | added | Alexander Petrov | @bjb568 dissagrement with what ? Dissagrement with the topic of the question , with the question itself ? A good question is a question that has a lot of views and that trigger a lot of good answers. How can a question with thousands of views get answers rated +tens and the same question get voting -tens. Sory I don't agree with this definition of up down voting. | |
Sep 15, 2018 at 18:25 | comment | added | bjb568 | @AlexandarPetrov Question downvotes indicate disagreement, which is valuable here. They're not to be taken personally. | |
Sep 15, 2018 at 10:34 | comment | added | Alexander Petrov | I think this question is excellent example of the flow system. Question that has significant amount of views. Question that has affected enough people to do their effort to cast hundreds of votes. And yet the question is on the negative and the answer is like 100 more positive. I think this is ridicules. | |
Feb 22, 2018 at 15:52 | comment | added | Chiwda | While I agree that many questions deserve downvoting, I have been at the receiving end of spurious downvotes which resulted in a question having a negative score and therefore not read, not taken seriously, doesn't appear higher in searches etc. One person raked me over the coals (I am assuming he downvoted too) and when I pointed out that he had obviously not read my question deleted his offending comment but continued to berate me in additional comments. I do get upset at such outcomes - they are not useful to anybody and deny everyone an opportunity to learn. | |
Mar 20, 2017 at 9:15 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
replaced http://meta.stackoverflow.com/ with https://meta.stackoverflow.com/
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Nov 22, 2016 at 16:29 | comment | added | Jon Skeet | @smci: That's on MSO, where downvotes have a different meaning. I was talking about the main site - as I believe most people have been. | |
Nov 22, 2016 at 16:21 | comment | added | smci | @JonSkeet: yes I do have an example: MSO: "Tags/terms used for data-science concepts: reshape/wide-form/long-form/tall-form/stacked data/unstacked/melt/cast". Your comment "If it's a good question, it won't be downvoted. Do you have examples of genuinely good, helpful questions which are being downvoted?" is nonsense. | |
Nov 13, 2014 at 10:12 | comment | added | Jean-François Corbett |
GOTO 5 considered helpful.
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Nov 12, 2014 at 15:34 | comment | added | bjb568 | @Aje It's a flawed question. | |
Nov 12, 2014 at 14:33 | comment | added | Ajedi32 | Man, this question has a lot of downvotes. How ironic. ;-) | |
Oct 9, 2014 at 4:32 | comment | added | Martin | @bjb568 Please consider voting to re-open the question here [ meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/272335/… ] | |
Jul 24, 2014 at 14:01 | comment | added | bjb568 | @DavidWallace I meant downvoting instead of making a simple edit to fix the problem. Anyway, why are you commenting on this old meta post, I've learned, all the opinions have been expressed. | |
Jul 24, 2014 at 12:15 | comment | added | Dawood ibn Kareem | How can you go over the top on downvoting a question? Surely, you can either downvote it, or not downvote it. You can't partially downvote it, or extremely downvote it, or downvote it to the maximum. It's like having an extremely large boolean. Unless there's some privilege that I haven't earnt yet. | |
May 14, 2014 at 10:30 | history | edited | user456814 |
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May 13, 2014 at 3:26 | comment | added | user456814 |
@bjb568 :P :P :P <3 <3 <3
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May 13, 2014 at 3:25 | comment | added | bjb568 | @Cupcake y did u downvote me?! wut i does rong?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so mean (*proceeds to ask more questions of similar quality with "thanks in advance,\nmyname\n\n,no dwnvte pls, im just lernin"*) | |
May 13, 2014 at 2:41 | comment | added | user456814 |
@bjb568 for what it's worth, I give up on downvoting questions. It's a big time suck, in terms of the confrontation that ends up coming out of it. It's just not worth it :/
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May 2, 2014 at 8:29 | vote | accept | bjb568 | ||
May 2, 2014 at 8:29 | vote | accept | bjb568 | ||
May 2, 2014 at 8:29 | |||||
May 2, 2014 at 8:11 | comment | added | Jon Skeet | "They have a good question in their mind. But they can't get it out to SO properly. They don't know how." - Then they should read how before asking the question. As I said before, there are plenty of resources available... just 10 minutes of reading would be enough, but most people who ask bad question can't be bothered, apparently. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:59 | vote | accept | bjb568 | ||
May 2, 2014 at 8:29 | |||||
May 2, 2014 at 7:59 | comment | added | bjb568 | @mehow This is a discussion, not a feature-request. I have no idea what I am doing and thus want to discuss it. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:58 | comment | added | bjb568 | I didn't say "people have too high a quality standard". I said "sometimes experienced users have too high a quality standard". One implies millions of people, one implies hundreds. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:58 | comment | added | user2140173 | I also think @bjb568 should provide a few examples of abuse of downvoting... As it stands it's just an assumption and no real data highlighting this issue. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:56 | comment | added | Martijn Pieters | @bjb568: Oh please, too high a quality standard? The problem is that people have quality standards that are too low. Both when asking (not thinking about the quality of their question) and when voting (people are too timid still voting). | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:45 | answer | added | decezeMod | timeline score: 167 | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:42 | comment | added | user456814 | @bjb568 regarding "simple comments", there is a reason why comments are optional. Never underestimate someone's willingness to be immature and petty. Besides, even "simple comments" take time and energy. Anything that requires turning thoughts into coherent writing takes time and energy. Again, it doesn't scale to many questions. This is why it takes so much effort to find the best questions on Stack Overflow when it's absolutely inundated with a flood of questions that most of the old-timers would rather not spend time and energy to read. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:39 | comment | added | bjb568 | Yes. I know. Most questions are handled fine. I'm talking about the ones that aren't. Fine, you can call it too minor of a problem to think about, but I think it's a problem nonetheless. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:38 | comment | added | Bart | And generally there are plenty. We're not exactly a shy or quiet community. And if you really don't get any or don't get it, come to Meta. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:36 | comment | added | bjb568 | Obviously I'm exaggerating. But it discouraging especially if they aren't given a comment on how to improve. A simple comment takes no more than 15 seconds, yet it can benefit a noob so much. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:35 | comment | added | Bart | If that is their first thought or indicative of their maturity level ... goodbye. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:34 | comment | added | bjb568 | DV/CV/Ban: "You have done something wrong": "those annoying SO people don't like n00bs": "meanies" | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:33 | comment | added | Bart | If there are warnings @bjb568? Aren't we talking downvotes here? Close votes? And with a ban that would have to happen several times .... if that is not a warning I don't know what is. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:32 | comment | added | bjb568 | I totally agree that if you can't help (not enough time) or it can't be helped (i have err), you should downvote. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:32 | comment | added | user456814 |
@bjb568 "n00bs can't go reading every rule on SO before posting". Then they have no business posting anything to Stack Overflow. Users who can't be bothered to do any research and Rubber Duck Solve Their Own Problems have no business using the programming tool that is Stack Overflow. Also, don't underestimate the ability of mods to root out duplicate accounts trying to evade question bans :P
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May 2, 2014 at 7:31 | comment | added | deceze Mod | I agree here. It's not the job of "seniors" to brush up every question which may have an inkling of a real answerable problem at its core into a usable form. For one, there are too many question to do this consistently. You'd need a full time staff of people doing just that, and that simply won't happen. Secondly, we're not mind readers. If a user says "I get error" and nothing more, that question can only be salvaged by the user himself, not others. Downvotes just help to unclog the system for users who are conducting actual searches for their own problems. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:31 | comment | added | bjb568 | I don't mean a minor edit. I mean a major edit. Fundamentally changing OP's view of SO. We need to teach them that SO is not a help site in a way that they can understand and improve easily. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:30 | comment | added | Bart | Well then @bjb568, demonstrate to me that there is a big problem with posts that deserve to be on the site and are (besides a minor edit) clear enough to be answered, yet get downvoted into oblivion. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:30 | comment | added | bjb568 | @Bart If there are warnings… | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:29 | answer | added | user2140173 | timeline score: 44 | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:29 | comment | added | bjb568 | @Bart Of course. If you can't help, downvote. If it can't be saved, downvote. Downvoting is great, as long as you've exhausted other possibilities. Don't edit/comment on all bad posts. Edit/comment on posts that deserve it. "Give me teh codez" questions are obviously too bad to be saved. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:29 | comment | added | Bart | If you're banned, you've done something wrong for a significant amount of time. And you have not taken warnings into account. At that point I'm not sure if "friendly" is what matters any more. But hey, we're friendly enough to let you participate again if you put in the effort. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:27 | comment | added | bjb568 | @Cupcake That's real friendly… Well, I'll go create another account since this one is banned. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:27 | comment | added | Bart | @bjb568 Absolutely not. Your posts being edited into shape is not a right you have. You are responsible for the content in your own posts. If it's not good and requires editing, a downvote is a possibility. That other users are so kind to go in and prevent that from happening is a gift from them to you. Not a right you as the OP have to prevent downvotes from happening. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:27 | comment | added | bjb568 | They have a good question in their mind. But they can't get it out to SO properly. They don't know how. Of course they're bad questions, but this is not reddit. Bad content shouldn't always be downvoted, if it can improve. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:27 | comment | added | user456814 | @bjb568 "If we help them, they won't come back the next time they have a question writing with the same problems." This is already automated. Users who can't ask good questions get question-banned. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:25 | comment | added | Jon Skeet | "They don't format their code. They don't describe their problem." Then they're not good questions which are helpful to the community then, are they? You need to decide: are you talking about good questions which are helpful to the community (they don't get downvoted) or bad questions (which aren't helpful, and would almost always be fixed if the OP had the courtesy to stop for 30 seconds and think what would make it a good question)? | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:24 | comment | added | bjb568 | @Cupcake You're a great user. But not every user is born great. We have the tools to help them, but we aren't. If we had infinite time, we'd all be like you. And if anybody wasn't, they'd be educated. But people don't have infinite time. People need to educate users when they can. They need to understand that n00bs can't go reading every rule on SO before posting. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:21 | comment | added | user456814 | @bjb568 I've been a member of Stack Overflow for 3 years and 7 months. In that time, I've only asked 18 questions. I've spent plenty more time than 3 hours to read most (if not all) the rules on Stack Overflow, plus blog posts by Stack Exchange and Jeff Atwood. Only after all that research, only then, have I been posting more questions. If you post here, you better darn well make sure that you understand what's involved with it. If you don't, then you better learn fast. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:21 | comment | added | bjb568 | @JonSkeet Almost all questions from low-rep users are downvoted - understandably. They don't format their code. They don't describe their problem. They don't have a clue what to do. If we help them, they won't come back the next time they have a question writing with the same problems. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:20 | comment | added | bjb568 | @Bart A downvote instead of bothering to edit it. Isn't that misuse? | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:19 | comment | added | Jon Skeet | "They have created a good question that can benefit the community." If it's a good question, it won't be downvoted. Do you have examples of genuinely good, helpful questions which are being downvoted? | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:19 | comment | added | Bart | None of what you say is a misuse or abuse of voting. You might not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong. Users have a vote and are free to use it. They seem to regulate its use pretty well in general. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:18 | comment | added | bjb568 | @JonSkeet "I tried all these things, and it still doesn't work, maybe SO can help". They've put effort into it. They have created a good question that can benefit the community. Whether they word it correctly or explain their problem well is a different matter. Of course they can figure out the rules by researching for 3 hours… but seriously? They have tried. They want to do something, but they can't. So, obviously smack them with a shower of downvotes. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:16 | comment | added | user456814 |
@bjb568 so, I used to be soft on users too, and I followed an algorithm much like yours. The problem is that it just doesn't scale. Giving tender love and care to every single question for every single user sucks up a lot of time and energy. It's just easier to go straight to downvoting and move on. Stack Overflow gets 8000 questions per day. Being soft just doesn't scale :P
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May 2, 2014 at 7:15 | comment | added | bjb568 | @Flexo Minimally, if you do it right. Just general education about voting will make votes be used appropriately on both ends of the spectrum. I'm not advocating telling everyone to stop downvoting as much. Don't do more, do smart. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:15 | comment | added | Jon Skeet | "They're not being disrespectful by not reading thru help, faq, and top meta posts, they're being practical" They're asking people to spend time helping them, but they're not willing to spend any time making sure that they can be helped. That sounds disrespectful to me. If they're not willing to read anything that's written to make them write better questions, why should we believe they'll read comments and take action on them? Just how much effort do we have to put in before they put any in? Downvoting bad questions so that the site maintains good quality? That sounds practical. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:14 | comment | added | bjb568 | @mehow No, I'm talking about drive-by downvoting, misuse of downvotes, and having too high of a quality mark. Bad stuff deserves to be downvoted. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:13 | comment | added | user456814 |
@mehow that first example user is suspended too, for good reason :P Deserves every downvote on that, and then some :P
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May 2, 2014 at 7:12 | comment | added | Flexo - Save the data dump Mod | @bjb568 anything you do to tweak the sensitivity of your detector at one end of the range will have an impact at the other end of it. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:12 | comment | added | user2140173 | what do you call overdownvoting? maybe this ? | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:09 | comment | added | bjb568 | @Cupcake Very Low Quality. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:08 | comment | added | bjb568 | @Flexo Some bad questions aren't downvoted. So? This complains about overuse, underuse is not an argument against overuse. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:08 | comment | added | user456814 | Please expand "CV" to "Close vote". What's "LVQ"? | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:07 | history | edited | bjb568 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 245 characters in body
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May 2, 2014 at 7:05 | comment | added | user456814 | Go To Statement Considered Harmful. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:05 | comment | added | bjb568 | No. People don't read things on the internet. They're not being disrespectful by not reading thru help, faq, and top meta posts, they're being practical. You can't just turn away new users just because they haven't put "enough time into understanding SE", these users are required for the site to function. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:05 | comment | added | Flexo - Save the data dump Mod | I disagree. I see plenty of terrible questions where nobody has bothered to vote. | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:02 | comment | added | Jon Skeet | Bear in mind that before anyone asks a question, they already go through a page that explains how the site works, with explanations of what makes a good question and links to more details. If they've chosen to ignore that and ask a good question, don't you think that's disrespectful to the people who they're asking to give them time? | |
May 2, 2014 at 7:01 | comment | added | Jon Skeet | My gut feeling is that 90% of bad questions are asked by people who could easily realize they're bad questions if they spent just enough to read over their question and check whether it makes sense to someone reading it without any extra context. For example, any question containing "I get error" without any description of what the error is - it really doesn't take a genius to realize that you need to explain what the error is. If you think about it that way, it's the OP who is being disrespectful by not caring about whether their question is answerable. | |
May 2, 2014 at 6:54 | history | asked | bjb568 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |