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Consider a user who creates a post on the site which violates one of the many rules, permanent or temporary, such as:

  • They post content generated by ChatGPT
  • They post copied content without attribution (plagiarism)
  • They promote their own site without disclosure (spam)

Assume this violation goes undetected for some period, and they later realize what they did is wrong, and self-delete their post.

Now, consider that a 10K+ user comes along later and finds this deleted post. The 10K+ user may be concerned that the post could be undeleted by that user without detection. Or they may be unsure why the post was deleted. Or they may want to ensure that the appropriate "sanctions" mentioned in bans (such as ChatGPT) or other non-punitive moderator actions (such as mod-deleting the post to prevent undeletion) can be taken.

Should the 10K+ user take any action on this post, such as flagging for moderator attention?

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    The title asks something a bit different than I read the body of the question as asking. A 10k+ user could still flag the post for moderator attention, and a moderator could still take action on the post (e.g., re-deleting it to ensure that it cannot be undeleted in the future), without any sanctions being levied against the user. Jan 15, 2023 at 7:23
  • Permanent deletion means "totally gone" right? I mean, not some flag that the answer can't be undeleted anymore? Otherwise people just copy and repost the answer. Jan 15, 2023 at 8:06
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    @GertArnold There is no such thing as "permanent deletion", unless a developer goes in and hard-deletes something from the database, which is virtually never done. What I was referring to in my comment was the fact that, if a moderator is the one who deleted a post, it cannot be undeleted except by a moderator. It is still visible to anyone who has 10k+ reputation and also to the original author of the deleted post. So, yes, something could be copied and reposted out of that. That would be grounds for a mod flag on that post, if not a rude/abusive flag. Jan 15, 2023 at 8:45
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    I'm wanting to say that the answer here is "yes, posts that egregiously violate the site rules but were self-deleted by the author should probably be flagged for mod attention" on the basis that (A) the rule-violating answers can be mod-deleted to ensure they cannot be later undeleted, and (B) the user's posts can be checked for other, similar violations. But, as a moderator, if I post this answer, it'll get construed as setting policy, so I am going to hold off on doing so until there's a bit more of a consensus that forms among the mod team (and/or someone points out to me the drawbacks). Jan 15, 2023 at 8:56
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    Taking ChatGPT as an example: there's probably a difference between 1) a user who posts some ChatGPT answers, gets is called out about it, realises their mistake, and deletes the answers, and 2) a user who posts some ChatGPT answers, gets called out about it, and deletes the specific answer they think they've been caught on while keeping the rest.
    – DavidW
    Jan 15, 2023 at 9:11
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    I’d always want potentially problematic content to be brought to mods attention. That the user themselves realized it was problematic and self-deleted might be a mitigating circumstance when deciding whether to contact and/or suspend them, but at least I’d like to be aware of the issue
    – blackgreen Mod
    Jan 15, 2023 at 11:05
  • @blackgreen Or a counter-mitigating(?) circumstance, if they reoffend in the same way after deleting. Jan 15, 2023 at 22:39
  • “Should the 10K+ user take any action on this post, such as flagging for moderator attention?” - Asking a question, then deleting it, absolutely should be prevented. I strongly oppose such toxic behavior. If the community deletes multiple contributions, from a single user, then heavy rate restrictions should be imposed Jan 15, 2023 at 23:51
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    @SecurityHound Why would deleting a question be toxic behaviour? If a user asks a bad question then realizes that the question isn't helping anyone and deletes it. That's a step in the right direction. Also saves the mods time of having to delete it themselves.
    – Jerome
    Jan 16, 2023 at 5:00
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    @Jerome - Because the users asking those bad questions only delete them after receiving an answer. One of the reasons user even get question banned is that they delete their low quality questions instead of just improving them so they can be answered or reopened. Users submitting contributions is a big deal. Those contributions should belong to the community, and only the contributions that can't be salvaged should be deleted. A user with only 3 questions, was question banned, because of their deleted questions as an example of the toxicity Jan 16, 2023 at 7:16

2 Answers 2

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The boring and safe answer is that it's a judgement call. However I think we can identify a few heuristics to help with this judgement. Therefore, feel free to flag if you think that:

  1. the post should be mod-deleted (deleted by a moderator so as to prevent undeletion by other users);

  2. AND the issue is serious enough that moderators might want to investigate the user;

  3. AND the issues with the post are easy to overlook, so if the post were undeleted, it would remain visible on the site for a while before someone else flagged it.

The above is meant to strike a balance between making moderators aware of potentially problematic behavior — regardless of whether the self-deletion will count as a mitigating circumstance —, and at the same time avoiding flags on posts that aren't causing immediate harm to the site and/or unlikely to require any moderator action. As a corollary, please do NOT fish out deleted posts from SEDE and go on a flag spree. The advice contained in this post is meant for users who organically come across self-deleted posts. If it's self-deleted and you have to go out of your way to find it, then leave it be.

If a post fails to meet one or more of the above conditions it probably doesn't need to be flagged. At the very least, it should prompt a more careful evaluation on your side.

As a non-exhaustive example, self-deleted post that usually pass this test are:

  • chatGPT / AI-generated answers: these are rather easy to miss if you aren't specifically on the lookout for it. To be fair, it's likely that someone will catch and flag other visible posts sooner than later, so flagging self-deleted posts isn't urgent. However there are no definite guarantees that visible posts will be flagged; and moderators going through a user's post list might prioritize visible answers and move past already deleted ones. In this case it's useful to remind us to mod-delete those too.

  • plagiarism: plagiarism is notoriously hard to spot, and it may be more spread out over time or over posts. It's best to catch it whenever we can instead of waiting for other visible posts to be noticed and flagged. Having flags on these posts also make it easier to collect stats and gauge the seriousness of the issue for a certain user.

On the other hand, self-deleted posts that don't pass the test, and therefore require more thought/evidence to decide if flagging is appropriate, are:

  • self-promotion: this is sort of a grey area and flagging depends on how close the post is to being spam. If it's blatant unsalvageable spam, it could've been a spammer testing the waters, then moderators might want to destroy the account for good measure. Ask yourself how much harm would the post do the site if it were undeleted? Is it sneaky malicious self-promotion, or is it a user who omitted to disclose affiliation in an otherwise acceptable answer? In the latter case, the author perhaps deleted the post because they were made aware of site rules elsewhere and are considering how to properly edit it; here flagging could be premature.

  • rudeness: same reasoning as above, with the addendum that the rude behavior may have been emotional, ergo transitory. As soon as the OP comes to their senses, they realize their mistake and self-delete in shame. There's no urgent need to bring this to moderators' attention.

In general, don't flag Not An Answer (NAA) and Very Low Quality (VLQ) posts. If a link-only answer looks like self-promotion, it falls under the previous category.

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I think the ChatGPT and plagiarism reasons could, at least perhaps in some case, mean that someone posted it in good faith then realized it was wrong and later deleted it. Whereas spam is always malicious.

If you have posted something problematic on the site and later realize as much yourself, then deletion is the proper action taken by the user. What else are they to do, flag their own post? If they are sincere, then self-deletion should be enough (and thereby any rep from the post is lost too). I guess in theory it is possible to self-delete and then edit, but that doesn't really serve any purpose if the post is to stay deleted.

My take on it is that AI generated or plagiarized posts that were deleted need not get flagged. If they are undeleted with the same problem present, they should be flagged for moderator attention. Spam deleted by the original poster should still be flagged.

However there's another rare scenario that goes like: 1) Plagarize a post by Jon Skeet 2) gain rep 3) delete 4) edit into something you've written yourself. You would still have the same rep.

So maybe these scenarios have to be reviewed on case to case basis by a moderator after all.

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    Have an upvote anyway but it seems kind of odd to me that you are forgiving in the case of plagiarism but then in the case of spam (which in the context of Stack Overflow means endorsing a product without showing affiliation) it is an instant axe drop :) Both can be the result of naiveté as well as malice.
    – Gimby
    Jan 16, 2023 at 13:34
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    @Gimby It's quite common that people seem to think "anything on the Internet is free and I can use it as I like". But then of course ignorance is not an excuse either, if you plagiarise something without attribution, you will still have your account suspended. I guess my point is: how do you correctly act as a user when you have posted something inappropriate? Deleting the post is the sensible thing to do.
    – Lundin
    Jan 16, 2023 at 13:45
  • "What else are they to do, flag their own post?" In the case of plagiarism they can also edit it to add proper attribution. Jan 16, 2023 at 18:56
  • "What else are they to do, flag their own post?" Assuming that we want 10K+ users to flag it (because they can see it) perhaps yes, that is the correct answer. Delete and then flag for moderator attention, apologizing and asking them to mod-delete. Jan 17, 2023 at 1:36
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    "1) Plagarize 2) gain rep 3) delete 4) edit. Keep rep." - I don't think that would work. You either have to undelete it (or just never delete it), or wait for 60 days and 3 upvotes before deleting it. Which should be enough time for us to flag the plagiarism.
    – Bergi
    Jan 17, 2023 at 19:34
  • @Bergi I thought the rep lossed from deletion was restored upon undeletion?
    – Lundin
    Jan 18, 2023 at 7:16
  • @Lundin Yes, but a) you didn't mention that step and b) as you say, we should flag as soon as the post gets undeleted
    – Bergi
    Jan 18, 2023 at 8:46

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