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I see questions like this one being marked duplicate of What is a debugger and how can it help me diagnose problems?. I get the sentiment.

But clearly, OP is not asking what a debugger is; they are asking something else. Maybe the question they are asking is not interesting, doesn't show research or is not useful. Still, it is factually not asking what a debugger is and as such not a duplicate.

Do we really want SO to be so rude? Are we so arrogant as to tell people "Oh, I believe you are asking me what a debugger is. Do you want a passive-aggressive answer?"

On a more positive note, I guess I'm asking what the proper way to deal with these question is. Should they be closed "Need more focus?". "Need debugging details" would be at least a notch friendlier. It implies the same, but it conveys it in a less abrasive way.

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super-TL;DR: Our help center page on creating a minimal, reproducible example says:

For more information on how to debug your program so that you can create a minimal example, Eric Lippert has written a fantastic blog post on the subject: How to debug small programs.

(emphasis added). I think it's better to just comment linking to the debugger FAQ post and the MRE page and quoting it instead of closing as a duplicate of the debugger FAQ.

If you want to read any further, buckle up, because "I didn't have time to write you a short letter, so I wrote you a long one." (Mark Twain)


But clearly, OP is not asking what is a debugger, they are asking something else. Maybe the question they are asking is not interesting, doesn't show research or is not useful. Still, it is factually not asking what is a debugger and as such not a duplicate.

TL;DR
I agree, and I think our rule books do too. I'm glad we have that FAQ post to "teach askers how to fish", but a question that asks for a particular fish is not the same as a question asking how to catch any fish. The deeper problem we have to figure out how best to tackle is that we're getting tons of non-generic debugging-problem questions (that don't meet the "minimal" and "example" qualifications of an MRE) instead of generic, generally useful questions (that meet all the qualifications of an MRE). You're probably right that there are better solutions. I'll try to give an analysis of the current situation with our minimal reproducible example guidance, list some existing SE projects to improve the system, and then touch on other valid response options.

First thing: The practice of closing poor questions as duplicates of FAQ questions is pretty deeply entrenched in our culture (I'm not familiar with the history of how this came to be since I'm relatively new here). Here's a SEDE query of the top dup targets on SO. It's to the point where in this Proposal for canonical question: "How do I use a debugger to debug my C++ code?" [closed], one of the answers basically says, "Yeah we do that here. just do it."

Be assured that I'm not trying here to downplay the hard work that people have put into designing those FAQ posts, guiding people toward them, and closing poor questions, and the good results that those efforts have brought to the site over the years. To all those contributors, thank you! I'm trying to make a measured analysis of the problem we're trying to solve, why this technique may not be appropriate considering our goals, playbooks, and how the duplicate mechanism is intended to be used, and what other solutions currently exist and how they compare.

Some SEDE Data

Here's a link. Here's a summary of the results:

  1. Posts closed as a duplicate of the debugger FAQ: 544.
  2. Counts of marked-dups that are/aren't deleted: 158 closed (but not deleted), 386 deleted.
  3. Who close-votes using this dup technique? Go see for yourself. They're all >10k users, and all have gold tag badges which let them dup-hammer. Note: Votes on deleted posts are not captured due to a certain limitation. Important: This is not some kind of witch hunt. Look at the reputation and account ages of these users. Visit their profiles and see how much good they have contributed to this community.
  4. Posts linked to FAQ but not as duplicates: 3660
  5. Counts of FAQ-non-dup-linked posts that are/aren't deleted: 1254 open, 391 closed but not deleted, 2016 deleted, 1 off-by-one-error-that-I-don't-know-the-cause-of.

What do our FAQs and founders say about duplicates?

In our FAQ page on duplicates, the "When are two questions considered duplicates?" section states:

According to Stack Exchange co-founder Joel Spolsky, we should only close real duplicates, and according to co-founder Jeff Atwood, there are three kinds of duplicates: cut-and-pastes, accidental duplicates, and borderline duplicates (requiring judgement as applied by the community).

Joel's linked blog post states:

help us build up a library of canonical questions and answers that are more generic versions of the same question, and then start closing all the exact duplicates. [...] If you’re going to close a user’s question as a duplicate, it has to be a real duplicate.

It goes on to drive home that generic questions are helpful to more people than non-generic ones (more on this later).

I don't think the questions being closed as duplicates of the debugger FAQ fit in any of those three categories described in Jeff's linked blogpost. They're obviously not cut-and-pastes of the FAQ post; their overlap with the FAQ post is not only not ambiguous—it is probably nonexistent (see the list of them here) (definitely not in the same ballpark).

Notice how those pages focus on the questions and not the answers. The FAQ page does say:

Questions may be duplicates if they have the same (potential) answers. This includes not only word-for-word duplicates, but also the same idea expressed in different words.

, but it says "questions may", so it doesn't override the more well-defined criteria laid out before.

Posts marked as duplicates have two destinies: Good signposts are kept, and bad signposts are deleted. A good signpost is one that historically / is expected to be searched for by future readers, so that it can play a useful role in pointing to the canonical question with the actual answer to the question.

Quoting from @RobertHarvey's answer to a discussion requesting strengthing of the dup hammer with general questions:

There are dangers to the close as dupe process, however. "Your answer is over here." This is absolutely the wrong way to close as dupe, unless you're definitively answering his specific question with a reference question. Don't make people hunt for answers in a question that doesn't seem to have any resemblance to the OP's question.

The deeper problem we're trying to tackle: Non-generic questions

Here's the deeper problem with our current scenario that I think is motivating the use of this technique of dup-closing to an FAQ page: We're getting treated as a debugging help desk, and the library which was intended to be filled with generic questions that can help many people is being filled with non-generic questions that are likely only to help the original asker and perhaps a small handful of people.

If you look at the 4th and 5th tables of my first SEDE query, you'll see that for posts that get a comment linking to the debugger FAQ post (Ie. posts where someone makes a "friendly link" to it instead of dup-close-voting/flagging), you'll see that 55.07% are currently deleted, and 10.68% are closed but not deleted, and that only roughly 10% of them have positive score. They're generally not good questions: they don't meet some combination of our guidelines for writing good-questions.

Just for some bonus SEDE fun, here's a graph of the current status of posts which are linked to the debugger FAQ post either in a comment, or closed as a duplicate, grouped by the creation date of the post. Note the funny (and sad) onslaught of poor questions that we get during our "eternal septembers". Here's a view of the top FAQ being used as dup targets over time.

Looking at that data, it almost makes you think "no wonder / thank goodness people are hammering and deleting these". Using a dup hammer is way faster than getting three close-votes, which may even require probing for enough information to know which close reason to use. Are there other solutions than that? Yeah.

One phrase I've seem a few times here is "[(just) downvote and move on]". Sure. Valid. But that in itself doesn't communicate the the asker what was problematic with their post, and how they could improve. There are people who just downvote and move on, and there are also people who want to systematically and welcomingly teach askers how to be a "good citizen" here.

We can tell people how to ask a good generic question, so that they know what questions aren't a good fit, and how to do a good job of asking questions that are.

We already have an instruction manual for how to write good generic questions about debugging-related problems: the help center's page on how to create a minimal, reproducible example, which (among other things) states:

The more code there is to go through, the less likely people can find your problem. Streamline your example in one of two ways:

  1. Restart from scratch. Create a new program, adding in only what is needed to see the problem. Use simple, descriptive names for functions and variables – don’t copy the names you’re using in your existing code.
  2. Divide and conquer. If you’re not sure what the source of the problem is, start removing code a bit at a time until the problem disappears – then add the last part back.

[...] For more information on how to debug your program so that you can create a minimal example, Eric Lippert has written a fantastic blog post on the subject: How to debug small programs.

But this isn't preventing bad questions from being asked because we're not making askers read it.

The system doesn't do a good enough job of automating/forcing askers to learn how to ask good questions before asking

The current system doesn't give any clear pointer to askers to read the instructions on creating an MRE until they fail to ask a question that meets its qualifications, and the burden on evaluating that criteria falls on human volunteers. While my frustrated mind thinks the solution must be simple, there's also a very good chance it isn't.

There are efforts that the SE team is making to address this: read about the new user onboarding project, which contains a lot of good related discussion in the form of feedback, such as this one by Shog9.

There's also the Ask Wizard and Staging Ground Workflow. Unfortuneately, the current Ask Wizard seems to assume that any question is a debugging-problem question, and the Staging Ground Workflow doesn't seem to be designed to offload work from humans onto the system.

Other close reasons and constructive resolutions

In that previous blogpost by Joel, he says:

It is OK to edit a question to make it more general. With the power of editing comes the power to take someone’s [...], very specific question, and edit it a little bit until they’re asking the more general question that hundreds of people encounter. [...] In fact, sometimes [...] questions of the “do my homework” variety can be easily edited into a form where the answer will provide an extremely valuable resource for the internet at large.

In my experience, for many of such debugging-problem questions that get resolved, the resolution is pretty close to matching the "caused by typo" close reason, which states: "While similar questions may be on-topic here, this one was resolved in a way less likely to help future readers.", but I'm not aware of any precise and widely applicable official definition of what that means, so if in doubt, maybe don't use that close reason, or ask here on meta or in socvr.

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    This is extremely balanced and nuanced. Makes me realize how much my question was a reaction to an immediate annoyance. Some of the comments I left in the original question might have been a bit too far, especially given "We're getting treated as a helpdesk service", and the closing came from a place that can be explained. That said, I'm reassured we're not recommending to close more questions this way.
    – Jeffrey
    Commented Nov 18, 2022 at 14:21
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    "That's it. Debugging is not a requirement for an MRE according to that page." Yes, it absolutely is, per your quote. Debugging is precisely the process of determining the "shortest code necessary" for the problem. How can one confidently post a MRE without figuring out what is M-ly required to E the problem R-ly? Commented Nov 18, 2022 at 22:43
  • @KarlKnechtel The key difference between what a lot of users provide as an MRE and what you expect as an MRE is they get stuck on the way to reaching M, for whatever reasons. They clearly need help with that part of the process, as otherwise they likely would have solved it on their own. That doesn't make always a case of lacking an MRE, just because they haven't reduced it down to 1's and 0's.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 18, 2022 at 22:49
  • @KarlKnechtel really? ok. Then what I think we need is to make that extremely clear to askers and answer and reviewers: Clear in all the relevant help center pages, clear in our meta FAQ, and clear in the debugging FAQ page.
    – starball
    Commented Nov 18, 2022 at 22:49
  • "They clearly need help with that part of the process, as otherwise they likely would have solved it on their own." Yes, and the kind of help they require is outside the purview of the site. If reading a guide to debugging doesn't resolve the issue, then they require either tutoring, or generally to practice their problem-solving skills. Commented Nov 18, 2022 at 22:55
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    "what I think we need is to make that extremely clear to askers and answer and reviewers" I agree completely. However, we will never get clear communication as long as the site isn't wholly owned by the community (putting aside the difficulty of getting the community on the same page). This is, after all, the site where the tour talks about "every question about programming" (almost every question that can be asked is garbage). The people who own the site actively don't want the site to work the way that it's designed to work, because that's bad for advertising revenue. Commented Nov 18, 2022 at 22:58
  • i don't disagree that this isn't the place for it. That doesn't make it correct to abuse close reasons.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 18, 2022 at 22:59
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No, in my opinion, closing as a duplicate of that question is not appropriate. It is common, but I don't think it is the right way to respond to such questions. In my opinion, the correct action is to vote to close the question or to downvote it.

I can't see the specific question you are referring to (it is now deleted), but I have a hypothesis about why this might be so common. I think many users have grown frustrated with certain types of low-quality questions (e.g., questions that basically want us to debug or review their code), and don't feel like they have adequate tools to address the problems those questions bring.

Downvoting isn't always effective. It takes three people to vote to close a question. In contrast, if you have a gold badge in the appropriate tag, one person can vote to close as a duplicate on their own. So, it is possible that some people might be using their ability to close with a single vote. It's not quite what they are supposed to do, but then people aren't supposed to ask low-quality questions, either, so it's less than ideal all around.

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    It's not quite what they are supposed to do... It's completely and utterly not what they're supposed to do. I would like to see that "RTFM" target question closed and deleted. It's completely off-topic for Stack Overflow and creates lazy curation. Commented Jun 3, 2023 at 6:48
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    @AdrianMole I'd prefer to see it hosted on Meta, with suitable alterations. Commented May 15 at 19:43

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