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Some recent blog posts and podcast episodes mention entities that help people to learn to code or improve their programming skills. Should we point new users to this content or other content more visually appealing when they blatantly ignore the Ask Wizard guidance?


The premise of this post is to new users assume good intentions, that they might be failing to follow the Ask Wizard guidance not for being rebels or anarchists.

I know that

I'm wondering what could be the most nice, humanly possible way to say that the question is not a good fit for this site. I think that it will be nice to point the user to something appropriate for their apparently "coding literacy" level, something about how to start writing code.

Does it make sense to ask for a blog post / episode about helping users that are practically "starting from zero"? What would be the keys for that material to be well received by the Meta Community?


Regarding the context of this post, a new version of the Ask Wizard went live when it was created. On that day the first post that I found was a question "created from wizard", as shown in in the following image:

question history entry showing that the post was created by "wizard"

IMHO the user clearly ignored the Ask Wizard guidance:

  • It doesn't describe a problem; instead it include a requirement
    • convert a spreadsheet into JSON and makes an attempt to include sample input data and the expected results, but they don't match the wording of the question title and body
  • It doesn't show what was tried
  • It includes tags from three different program languages / platforms

And "the jewel in the crown", the questions ends saying:

I have tried to look in the internet for a answer and haven't found one yet

Side note: The question was closed very quickly, edited, and deleted by the OP.

The basic is to vote, optional leave a comment and forget. Additionally, for those that want to be nice, looking for the more humanly possible way to say "your question is not a good fit for this site"

  • The comments could include links to "How to ask" or other guidance, but as the wizard already includes that, it doesn't make sense to repeat what was already said.
  • Tell the user that they should take the wizard seriously might sound "unfriendly" / "slap the door in the face"
  • It would be nice to be able to invite the OP to a chat room, but having rep 1 it isn't possible

I'm wondering if pointing the new user to the Stack Overflow blog or posts episodes that talks about entities that help people to learn to code could be something nice to do or if there is a curated list of resources for new users more visually appealing that the SO help / like the now retired website 20 things I learned about browsers and the web, but for programmers.

One example of SO podcast episodes is at the top of the sidebar widget: A flight simulator for developers to practice real world challenges and surprises (Ep. 500). The podcast notes include a link to "the equivalent of a flight simulator for engineers", but it might too complex for people that are new to write code.

Another example of SO content is Introducing the Overflow Offline project. It mentions several organizations that help coders with no/limited Internet access. I haven't explored the sites of these organizations, but because their scope, I don't think that they will have online content for people starting to write code.

PS: I'm not an old social media1 guy anymore, so I don't have any idea if there is something on these platforms that may be good examples. I just watch TikTok clips "for you", and most of those about programming are in Spanish.

Note: Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter

Related

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  • 2
    Are there any blog posts in particular that you think would be helpful?
    – Ryan M Mod
    Oct 25, 2022 at 17:14
  • The most recent (it's on the top of the sidebar widget)... one of the olders is about partnership .. the partner still has a Stack Overflow course.
    – Wicket
    Oct 25, 2022 at 17:18
  • 5
    (for later reference, the post currently at the top of the sidebar widget is A flight simulator for developers to practice real world challenges and surprises)
    – Ryan M Mod
    Oct 25, 2022 at 17:20
  • I just remember the partner name, Pluralsight (I think that the partnership is not active anymore )... there is a tag pluralsight-iq
    – Wicket
    Oct 25, 2022 at 17:21
  • 10
    Not really a fan of pushing paid partner content to new users in this way, just deceptive ads.
    – Kevin B
    Oct 25, 2022 at 17:23
  • 1
    @KevinB What about Mozilla courses like Learn web development? Not really visually appealing, I think.
    – Wicket
    Oct 25, 2022 at 17:25
  • 2
    What makes you think they won't "blatantly ignore the ... guidance" to read the links to the blogs or other sites the same way they ignored the Ask Wizard guidance? They've got one thing on their minds: get their question answered. Everything that gets between them and that answer is unfriendly, unkind, rude, elitist, and [insert derogatory adjective here]. Oct 25, 2022 at 20:45
  • 1
    @HereticMonkey in such a solution people who would ignore it aren't the target audience anyway.
    – Kevin B
    Oct 25, 2022 at 20:51
  • @HereticMonkey In the case that I mentioned here the OP replied to comments, made an attempt to fix the question before it was closed, previous to the launch of the new Ask Wizard, I have seen and participated in questions from users that ignored the guidance of the previous version of the Ask Wizard that were responsive and read the suggested docs, i.e. the guide to use Google Apps Script to extend Google Sheets. For some such guide was enough but for others not as they apparently needed other type of guidance, perhaps something starting from the pretty basics .
    – Wicket
    Oct 25, 2022 at 21:02
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    @Rubén I don't really get what this question is about then, I guess. It starts off talking about people who use the Ask Question wizard and ignore the guidance, asking about posting additional links for people who don't know anything about coding. While theoretically "no question is too basic", originally Stack Overflow was for "professional and enthusiast programmers", not people who don't know how to write a basic if statement. I don't think it's necessary for us to teach people how to code; we have to assume some level of proficiency. People are free to post links in comments to whatever. Oct 25, 2022 at 21:13
  • "when they blatantly ignore the Ask Wizard guidance?" Downvote & close vote.
    – philipxy
    Oct 25, 2022 at 23:51
  • @philipxy The question already mention that, let say as the minimal that a reviewer should do. Anyway, thanks for the link to faq about images, it's good example of content that we already have for this users.
    – Wicket
    Oct 26, 2022 at 12:39
  • This meta question of yours has an image without its text as text. That is why I left my comment. Not as an example of a comment to leave on relevant bad main posts.
    – philipxy
    Oct 26, 2022 at 12:50
  • @philipxy The image isn't code/data/errors. Are you saying that you are giving feedback about the accessibility of my this post?
    – Wicket
    Oct 26, 2022 at 12:59

2 Answers 2

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...nah.

I feel like the value from the podcasts and articles is dubious at best. There's a lot of feedback about the blogs on Meta Stack Exchange that indicates that the blog's quality can leave one scratching their head. Someone trying to learn from that may not have the best user experience.

Besides that, if someone just dumped their requirements onto us, then it falls to us to close that question as quickly as humanly possible. We are not ever going to be a place where it's acceptable for someone to just list their requirements for us to fulfill on a whim.

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  • Loved "quickly as humanly possible". This question is not about no shame people looking for someone who writes code for them for free or for link to code that they could copy paste... I'm talking about clueless-how-to-start-to-write-code people... I'm not saying that we should "save" all of them just wondering if there is something that we can do to point them in the right direction.
    – Wicket
    Oct 25, 2022 at 18:16
  • 7
    @Rubén: Not really, no. I feel like everyone reads too much into the part where Stack Overflow can be a great place to learn, but what a lot of people skip over is that it is not a place to teach you, and that's why we get lots of those clueless no-idea-where-to-start-type questions.
    – Makoto
    Oct 25, 2022 at 18:26
  • 1
    Thanks. But what could be the "quickly as human possible" way to close these bad questions from people genuinely looking for help to write code (they are not students trying to cheat, or freelancers trying to get profit from others content) ? Should we limit to say "enroll in a coding course" / "hire a teacher"?
    – Wicket
    Oct 26, 2022 at 13:48
  • @Rubén: No, just close it. What difference does it make why they're asking the question? If the question isn't suitable for the site, it's not suitable for the site, so it should be closed. Ideally, it's "when you see it and have had a moment to consider if this question really is on-topic or not". Can't ask you to do it any faster than that.
    – Makoto
    Oct 26, 2022 at 16:29
1

Content to start coding / write first program

As it looks that it will no possible to find in the SO blog the content I was looking for, here are a couple of searches:

If you have suggestions for other search keywords or have a specific resource please leave a comment.


Thanks to Makoto who posted the first answer and to all that posted comments. I'm wondering if some people think that that I was trying to persuade the community to vote differently, that was not my intention, I was looking for opinions about to what I now think was a naive expectation but I still think that it will be nice to add a comment who blatantly ignored the Ask Wizard or that have troubles to follow it pointing a resource about how to start coding, better if the resource is related to the language or platform that they are trying to use.

Few days ago I spent more time looking at the blog. I wasn't able to find anything pointed to new users who are new to writing code, more visually appealling than What is the proper way to approach Stack Overflow as someone totally new to programming?, Why is "Can someone help me?" not an actual question? and the help center articles.

The blog have several entries mentioning partners, speakers or interviewed people but it's more clear to me than ever that the target audience are stablished programmers and entities that hire or recruit them, so it's very likely that we never see there an article for people that might need help to start coding. The closer entry to what I'm looking is the article about the Ask Wizard that points to the corresponding help article which is a bit more visually appealling than any other help article as it includes screenshots but it's not what I'm expecting as something helpful for someone new to writing code that already posted a question were blatanlty ignored the Ask Wizard guidance.

Improving the faqs referenced above might take a while specially as it looks to me that it will be necessary to convince the community to have something easier to read and more visually appealing considering that my graphic design skills are close to null. I'm not a good writer and either able to persuade large audiences but I still will make an effort. So I'm searching for inspiration. On top of this post I shared a couple of searches and comments about top results.

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