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While searching for questions on vanilla JavaScript, it just searched for JavaScript questions. But vanilla JavaScript is plain (no framework) JavaScript, which is not the same as JavaScript. JavaScript can have any framework, such as jQuery, React, Angular, while vanilla JavaScript doesn't have a framework. Recently, the and similar tags are now just JavaScript.

So what should we do?

Make vanilla-js a separate tag again. And have and similar tags point to . And have the tag description be something like this.

Vanilla js is plain JavaScript, with no frameworks or libraries. If you are not using any frameworks or libraries, use this tag. If your question is about a framework or library, do not use this tag.

Why does this matter?

Almost all new JavaScript questions on Stack Overflow are about some library. And if I want to answer a question, I have to scroll a very long way to find a question not about a library. And the tag was last effective way to find a question about no-library/framework JavaScript question. Questions with tags that I ignore still show up, and those ignored questions take up over half every page of questions, with questions without ignored tags are still almost always about a library.

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    On Meta (here), votes are typically used to express agreement/disagreement. If one upvotes, they probably agree, and downvotes often mean disagreement. Of course, sometimes people vote for other reasons (lack of research, they want the question to gain publicity but they disagree, etc.). In this case, I'd guess it is the downvotes indicating disagreement.
    – cocomac
    Aug 3, 2022 at 17:05
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    a javascript library is still vanilla js.
    – Kevin B
    Aug 3, 2022 at 17:38
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    Background for this: Synonymize or blacklist [vanilla-js] tag
    – Andrew T.
    Aug 4, 2022 at 1:09
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    "But vanilla JavaScript is plain (no framework) JavaScript" - your opinion. One that may be getting quite outdated, I might add.
    – Gimby
    Aug 4, 2022 at 7:55

2 Answers 2

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While I appreciate the sentiment of the request and am a fellow fan of avoiding frameworks when possible, there are several reasons why I don't support the tag proposal.

  • Practically speaking, JS is almost never used in pure vanilla form with absolutely zero external libraries. Using, say, axios, howler.js, lodash or a jQuery accordion here and there in an app is still more or less in the spirit of "vanilla" in my book. It's only non-vanilla when the libraries and frameworks begin to dictate the structure of the app (say, React) and/or nearly all DOM manipulation calls are done through wrappers (say, jQuery, React, etc).
  • Even your hard-line definition leaves a lot of ambiguity: does Node.js count as "vanilla"? If so, I can't tag vanilla if I use Express or SQLite? What about TypeScript or a vanilla project that has to do with a bundler like Parcel or a test framework like Jest or Mocha?
  • Practically, there are millions of JS questions, so even with a precise definition, tagging everything accurately would probably be an enormous undertaking.
  • The definition is vague enough that new questions are sure to mess it up even if we allow the miracle of the old content getting tagged properly.
  • Even if the tag usage is crystal clear and we grant that the library becomes tagged thoroughly enough to be useful, people don't really read or adhere to the usage and it'll be a mess anyway.
  • It's unclear whether it'd be used in addition to or in place of the regular JS tag. Questions that have a lone React tag and no JS tag are sometimes a pain to find and deal with. Same for Rails without Ruby, Pandas without Python, Python-3.x without Python, etc. The prospect of another such tag is not exciting.

Conclusion: What constitutes "vanilla" isn't as universally obvious as clearer tags like, say, "React". Too much effort without enough of a clear-cut value proposition.

It may be a fool's errand, but here's a search that I quickly tossed together:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/javascript+-reactjs+-jquery+-angular+-vue.js+-vuejs3+-solid-js+-next.js+-angularjs+-electron+-discord.js+-discord+-typescript+-socket.io+-nuxt.js+-nest.js+-react-native+-cypress+-three.js+-apollo

Whenever you see a tag that doesn't meet your definition of vanilla, add it to the query using the -[non-vanilla-library] filter syntax. Although you'll never get rid of all frameworks, you should be able to get most of the benefits of a full-fledged tag.

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No, because now I'm thinking that somehow that vanilla.js is another framework. Or that someone will create it.

If you want JavaScript with no frameworks, just use the tag. There are plenty of real-world use cases in which using a framework with JavaScript isn't an option.

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    But almost all the questions tagged javascript are about some sort of random library or framework I don't know about.
    – Caleb Liu
    Aug 3, 2022 at 16:56
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    @user18807217: So? That doesn't mean we invent a new thing to describe what "JavaScript" already does. If you see a question that's only tagged with that, then you're probably in a better spot to answer it. If not, you can either learn that framework to better answer it, or ignore it. I mean, I've ignored NumPy and Pandas questions since '13 since I can't touch them in a Python context. Hasn't stopped me from answering Python questions.
    – Makoto
    Aug 3, 2022 at 16:58
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    @user18807217 "almost all the questions tagged javascript are about some sort of random library or framework I don't know about" not really, no. Moreover, a lot of the questions that are tagged with both JS and a library like Angular or ReactJS and (of course) jQuery actually have nothing to do with those libraries but just describe a basic JS behaviour.
    – VLAZ
    Aug 3, 2022 at 17:32
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    "But almost all the questions tagged javascript are about some sort of random library or framework I don't know about." If they aren't also tagged for that library or framework, then that tag should be added. Otherwise, you know what the "vanilla js" questions are by the absence of such tags. It's the same with any other language. Python users who don't care about Numpy, Pandas, Requests, matplotlib etc etc... can just ignore them. Aug 3, 2022 at 19:33

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