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Machine learning (ML) theory questions are off-topic on Stack Overflow. There is no question about this.

Stack Overflow also has many, many, many excellent Q&A's on ML theory. They often have answers that are updated regularly (as machine learning is a developing science) and are an excellent source of information for beginners in ML.

They are also, as previously stated, completely off-topic for modern Stack Overflow, and should be closed under our moderation rules.

Being closed means they can't be updated anymore. Which is, in my opinion, actively harmful to the goal of being a repository for knowledge. And there's a lot of knowledge there.

Those questions are, however, directly in the wheelhouse of Cross Validated.

Normally, a good, off topic-question should be migrated if there's an on-topic Stack Exchange site. But questions older than 60 days are not allowed to be migrated - mostly because allowing one site to push questions to another caused a lot of bad questions to be shuffled around for no good reason. Not even site moderators can get around this, although SE Community Managers (CMs) can.

I do sincerely feel that saving these questions would be a good reason.

I've posted on Cross Validated meta at the suggestion of some Stack Overflow moderators, and the Cross Validated community seems to agree.

I want to raise this here so that people can:

  1. Nominate, collate, and assist in closing good, but off-topic ML theory questions to hand off to Cross Validated, in cooperation with Stack Exchange CMs.

  2. Allow an open venue for discussion of whether such questions should be migrated at all, in case anyone has some issue with the concept.

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  • 4
    Cross Validated or Artificial Intelligence, though? There's a lot of overlap between those two sites, we might want to ask their meta's what they think on this issue, but ML theory is one of the main topics on Artificial Intelligence as well afaik
    – Erik A
    Jan 28, 2021 at 12:32
  • 5
    @ErikA my impression of the AI/ML split is AI is the "why" and ML is the "how" - and the top questions on ai.se sort of bear that out., Especially when compared to Cross Validated
    – Daniel F
    Jan 28, 2021 at 12:47
  • 1
    @DanielF That's very much a function of the "why" questions being disallowed on Cross Validated, not the "how" questions being unpopular on AI. Also note that AI is a fairly recent site, so it can't address most of the basic "how" questions since they've already been addressed elsewhere. My main point is that before we start moving stuff over to either site, it might be a good idea to involve the community on the target site, because we can easily see it doesn't fit in here, but they should judge if it fits in at their site and if there are potential side-effects (e.g. dupes existing).
    – Erik A
    Jan 28, 2021 at 12:52
  • 17
    Machine learning Qs are on topic on Cross Validated, they have been for just about forever. It's an older, larger, & more active site. Questions about the theory & philosophy of AI are off topic & are a better fit for AI, but the examples highlighted in this question (& most of the ML Qs I've seen on SO) are a better fit for CV. SE is full of overlapping sites, & there may be a couple Qs that would do better at Theoretical Computer Science, etc, but the overwhelming majority will do best on CV. For the sake of making this workable, we should do the simplest thing 1st & make it more complicated later. Jan 28, 2021 at 12:52
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    @ErikA, the community on the proposed target site has been involved & agrees with this proposal. Jan 28, 2021 at 12:54
  • What about asking the OPs of the questions and answers about this? Some might not be happy if a large portion of their reputation and privileges are migrated away.
    – user000001
    Jan 28, 2021 at 13:57
  • 2
    @user000001 That's a reasonable counterargument (and I'd imagine is the source of most pushback).
    – Daniel F
    Jan 28, 2021 at 14:19
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    @user000001 Although it appears that questions migrated after 60 days don't lose rep (becasue rep is frozen after 60 days and you can't lose it anymore)- one of the reasons it's normally not allowed, as it means basically duping rep.
    – Daniel F
    Jan 28, 2021 at 14:47
  • 4
    About possible migration target ai.se: there seems to be a policy of only reluctantly migrate to sites in public beta. The machine-learning tag on CV have 16K Q and about 1200 followers, on ai.se 1.7k Q and about 220 followers. The all-time answering rate is higher on CV, but the difference is small. Jan 28, 2021 at 18:53
  • 3
    Since ai.se was brought up, I feel datascience.se should also be mentioned. All the questions listed so far are a better fit for CV than DS in my opinion (that of course is subjective given the overlap), but perhaps you will find some others that would fit better at DS. Jan 28, 2021 at 20:07
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    @BenReiniger isn't we that are sending them, they are asking for them to be given to them. If datascience wants them, they can ask for them. This is a fire sale, 2 non-programming questions free for getting 1.
    – Braiam
    Jan 28, 2021 at 22:50
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    "Machine learning (ML) theory questions are off-topic on Stack Overflow. There is no question about this." Yet the answer you link doesn't support this statement. Jan 31, 2021 at 5:47
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    Any updates on this, about 1 year later? I, a moderator at Cross Validated, am interested to get the ball rolling on this. What needs to happen to get this initiative underway?
    – Sycorax
    Feb 3, 2022 at 0:18
  • This is important for the DS SE too. A moderator election will be launched in june on the DS SE. I feel like clarifying the perimeters of the different exchange will be the main driver for community and moderators involvement in the DS SE. May 25, 2022 at 9:54
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    Another remark is that some of the main ML packages (at least tensorflow and lightgbm) now route to SO by default - on top of answering questions on their github. It might not be entirely clear for the users where to post their questions. Might be worth to take that into account in any decision. And maybe to get in touch with them. May 25, 2022 at 9:58

4 Answers 4

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Here is a list of deleted questions having the tag, with scores >= 3:

It is easy for moderators to access this list, but less easy for regular users. However, regular users can still get to the information using SEDE, so it's not as if this post is leaking anything confidential.

I provide this list because the claim has been floated that deletion of off-topic machine learning questions on Stack Overflow may be destroying value.

Note that it has not been filtered by who deleted the question, so this will include self-deleted questions. Nor is it filtered by date of deletion, so several of these were deleted many years ago.

Going below a score of 3 gets into a very long tail, almost certainly with a majority of uninteresting questions, so I've omitted those.

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  • There seem to be some migrated posts here, too; now I'll be damned if I could figure out how the heck Decision trees vs. Neural Networks found its way to... Software Engineering (of all places)! :-0
    – desertnaut
    Jan 29, 2021 at 0:23
  • 4
    When that was migrated 8 years ago, Software Engineering was not the place it is today. It was more like a dumping ground for questions that didn't fit on Stack Overflow. Jan 29, 2021 at 0:38
  • 1
    Good to know! What you imply by the claim about destroyed value? I sampled ~ 20, and all were crap and well-deleted.
    – desertnaut
    Jan 29, 2021 at 0:49
  • 1
    I didn't look at any of them, except the first one, to check that the script I used to extract and format the links was working. There are no implications here, just information. Jan 29, 2021 at 0:55
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    If nothing else Neural Networks - obsolete? is a counterargument to the idea that "basic" answers will never change.
    – Daniel F
    Jan 29, 2021 at 5:29
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    It's not "a matter of trade-offs" anymore, @Daniel? Jan 29, 2021 at 5:31
  • @CodyGray that's popular by virtue of being a neutral answer to an opinion question (and thus rightfully closed) But the "right" answer to the SVM/NN decision has flip-flopped at least 3 times in the last 10 years.
    – Daniel F
    Jan 29, 2021 at 5:53
  • I am afraid that whoever claims that ^^ has clearly no clue on what exactly they are talking about.
    – desertnaut
    Jan 29, 2021 at 8:40
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    Of all the fears you've expressed, misinterpreting my statements seems to be the least of them.
    – Daniel F
    Jan 29, 2021 at 9:40
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I'll list up the gift basket here:

Confirmed:

Disputed (to be confirmed with stats.se mods):

Candidates (Not currently closed, but possibly should be):

I would only consider proposing closed questions for migration, as I want it unambiguous that there is a consensus by the SO community that the questions are not wanted or off-topic, lest there be a precedent for one stack cannibalizing another's (desired, on-topic) questions. Recently closed should be fine as long as there is apparent consensus.

EDIT: Starting the process of closing other theory-based questions. Candidate questions are not currently closed, but probably should be. Will (slowly) bring them before SOCVR in addition to listing them here.

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    The middle two are closed for being opinion-based. Would they have been closed on CV for the same reason? Are they rescued by having objective answers? Jan 28, 2021 at 20:11
  • Anyone can feel free to edit and add questions they think would be appropriate under Candidates. I'll ask to get converted to communitiy wiki to assure anyone can add
    – Daniel F
    Feb 10, 2021 at 13:06
  • This is only CV basked, correct? Have any other site shown interest?
    – Braiam
    Feb 10, 2021 at 13:14
  • @Braiam my current thought is to give CV first crack and then anything off-topic there offer up to Data Science or AI. But I don't particularly want to adjudicate the destination here, if anything that can be adjudicated when it all goes to MSE - they're the ones that have to do the migration at the end anyway, and it's more on-topic there.
    – Daniel F
    Feb 10, 2021 at 13:24
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    I'm a CV mod. We have duplicate questions to stackoverflow.com/questions/11632516/… which are still open. So, it's on topic on CV, but also it's a dupe of stats.stackexchange.com/questions/366581/…
    – Sycorax
    Feb 11, 2021 at 2:35
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    stackoverflow.com/questions/4674623/… is squarely on-topic on CV.
    – Sycorax
    Feb 11, 2021 at 2:37
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    stackoverflow.com/questions/13610074/… is squarely on-topic on CV.
    – Sycorax
    Feb 11, 2021 at 2:38
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    stackoverflow.com/questions/42883547/… is squarely on-topic on CV.
    – Sycorax
    Feb 11, 2021 at 2:38
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    stackoverflow.com/questions/17469835/… is squarely on-topic on CV.
    – Sycorax
    Feb 11, 2021 at 2:38
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    stackoverflow.com/questions/10565868/… is also on-topic on CV.
    – Sycorax
    Feb 11, 2021 at 2:39
  • Thanks for your input @Sycorax. I'd be mostly interested in your opinions on "disputed" questions, as they are the ones that are closed, but not as off-topic, and thus are in danger of being closed/deleted on CV if migrated. If you say they would not be considered closable on CV, I'll move them to "confirmed." Also perhaps the CV mods opinions on historically locking duplicate questions from SO should be re-iterated here from the response on the MCV question
    – Daniel F
    Feb 11, 2021 at 8:41
  • I agree that stackoverflow.com/questions/12952729/… is a poor question -- it would be closed on CV unless OP edited it to have a more specific question. stackoverflow.com/questions/5751114/… needs focus -- we probably have questions that address each part of it individually.
    – Sycorax
    Feb 11, 2021 at 15:35
  • stackoverflow.com/questions/2595176/… and stackoverflow.com/questions/1402370/… would both be closed as requiring focus.
    – Sycorax
    Feb 11, 2021 at 15:39
  • @DanielF Can you explain what you mean by "Also perhaps the CV mods opinions on historically locking duplicate questions from SO should be re-iterated here from the response on the MCV question"? I don't follow.
    – Sycorax
    Feb 11, 2021 at 15:40
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Apart from Cross Validated (or Stats) Stack Exchange, there are other SE stacks/sites where these questions would also be on-topic, such as Artificial Intelligence Stack Exchange and Data Science Stack Exchange.

Now, the question is:

Why would you migrate these questions to Stats SE and not to AI SE or DS SE?

Stats SE is not a public beta, like AI SE, so that may be your explanation. However, the other mentioned stacks have been around for a long time, and they also have a big enough number of members that would be interested in these questions and, as far as I understand, sustainable public betas are no at risk of being shut down. Moreover, here it's stated

All beta sites have the same temporary placeholder design. Once the site is no longer beta, it will have a unique design built with input from the community.

AI SE no longer has the same "temporary placeholder design" as other public beta sites. Additionally, from what a CM had once told me, it's definitely not at risk of being shut down, although, technically, as far as I know, we are still a public beta.

I don't mind if most machine learning-related questions are migrated to Stats SE, but there are also questions that could be migrated to AI SE (e.g. questions tagged with , such as this one, or , which do not involve programming issues/bugs, which would be off-topic on AI SE).

So, the issue you're raising is not just related to machine learning questions that need to be migrated to Stats SE, but related to valuable questions that are now off-topic on Stack Overflow but that would be more suitable for other SE sites. In my view, it's a good thing to migrate questions that are off-topic here to other more suitable sites, so that SE sites start to focus on specific topics and can build more cohesive communities, where people interested in the same topics are grouped together.

In any case, the challenge remains: which other SE would you migrate these off-topic questions to?

(Disclaimer: I am a moderator at AI SE.)

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  • 6
    Note that DS is not in beta. Jan 29, 2021 at 19:08
  • @BenReiniger Oh, I've always thought it was in beta because it still has the standard design for betas.
    – nbro
    Jan 29, 2021 at 19:09
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    I would like to note that AI SE has graduated, so it's not anymore a public beta site.
    – nbro
    Dec 30, 2021 at 15:54
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Disclaimer: I am a frequent contributor to ; I hold a relevant gold badge and, as it happens, I am currently ranked at #2 of all-time respondents in the tag. Given that, I guess one could claim that I am kind of a ML subject matter expert (SME). That said, I have not posted any answers in the threads you have linked here, so there is not any direct conflict of interest.


I think what you propose is not a good idea, which, moreover, seems to be based on false premises. Before checking the premises, let me hereby repost the examples list from your sister CV Meta post, for convenience of the reader:

  1. What is the role of the bias in neural networks?
  2. What is the difference between supervised learning and unsupervised learning?
  3. Which machine learning classifier to choose, in general?
  4. What are advantages of Artificial Neural Networks over Support Vector Machines?
  5. Difference between classification and clustering in data mining?
  6. Why must a nonlinear activation function be used in a backpropagation neural network?

From what you say here and at your sister post at Cross Validated Meta, I understand your premises as follows:

  1. These questions, being closed as off-topic here, they "suffocate" by not being possible to receive new answers; hence, they are not kept up to date with recent advances and the latest research.

  2. By being closed, they are in high danger of accidental deletion; moreover, there might be some overzealous SO users out there determined to eventually remove (i.e. actually delete) such off-topic but valuable posts, hence these questions need protection like some kind of endangered species.

  3. Ourselves, i.e. the SO community at large (including its moderators), are incapable of providing this necessary protection, so we should better migrate them somewhere else where they will be better looked after.

Let's take these premises one by one:

These questions, being closed as off-topic here, they "suffocate" by not being possible to receive new answers; hence, they are not kept up to date with recent advances and the latest research.

Not true. Even a superficial look at these questions by a trained eye (see disclaimer above) reveals that they are about very basic topics and definitions (ML 101), which have been textbook material since the 1990s at least. There are not going to be any updates whatsoever on the definition of supervised and unsupervised learning, the difference between classification and clustering, or the role of bias and nonlinear activation functions in neural nets. Not a single one of these topics is cutting edge, and no post will suffer or lose value by not being able to stay "updated". Given that most questions have anything between 15 and 36 answers, I think any "diversity" requirement is already sufficiently provided, too.

By being closed, they are in high danger of accidental deletion; moreover, there might be some overzealous SO users out there determined to eventually remove (i.e. actually delete) such off-topic but valuable posts, hence these questions need protection like some kind of endangered species.

Based on your comments elsewhere, it would seem that this is one of your main motivations; but how does it stand up against the evidence?

5 out of the 6 questions you have linked here have exactly zero delete votes; there are a couple of delete votes in one single question (which, interestingy enough, was single-handedly closed by a mod as too broad, and not as off-topic), but other than that, nothing.

Factoring in that these questions and the answers therein have a very large number of upvotes (also obviously used as a proxy for their value), it would take no less that ten (10) votes from users with more than 10K rep to actually delete them. This puts the probabilities of something like that happening by chance to a negligible value (most of them have survived well for at least a decade now). I have voted for closing several of them myself as off-topic, but it never crossed my mind to vote for deletion of such existing valuable stuff.

Now, if you have any evidence of death squads with >= 10 members of >= 10K rep sneakily moving around and taking aim to exterminate valuable stuff in (or any other tag, for that matter), I would seriously suggest you share it with us here. Until then, it would certainly seem that this premise of yours is also not true.

Ourselves, i.e. the SO community at large (including its moderators), are incapable of providing this necessary protection, so we should better migrate them somewhere else where they will be better looked after.

Now, I will admit that this is perhaps my biggest issue here: the act you propose and its rationale implicitly but clearly depict us, the SO community at large, as some dangerous irresponsible stupid folks, who are so useless that they cannot be trusted to preserve their own valuable (albeit legacy and currently off-topic) stuff, so they need to hand it over in order to save it. And I like to believe that this, too, is not true. We can protect such stuff from deletions, either accidental or malicious ones.


I will argue that such questions are part of our history and our legacy. And if we seriously think of handing over our legacy, we'd better do it for solid reasons, which I have yet to see.

I will additionally argue that, on top of the general SO rules, there are two general guidelines that we should keep in mind in such discussions:

  1. try to not deliberately remove existing value from the site
  2. keep some valuable stuff here for historical reasons, however off-topic it may be today

The buy-in from Cross Validated mods is hardly a surprise: they get to get our creme de la creme stuff back from 2009 and 2010 for free, while we stay back and still have to handle the piles of incoming crap (here, not there) on a daily basis.

These questions are part of our legacy and our history. They are remnants from days gone, back from 2009 and 2010, where SO was the only place where one could ask such questions and expect a decent answer, and sites like Cross Validated did not even exist yet.

What will be their fate if migrated? And should we care? I argue we should, indeed. What will happen to What is the difference between supervised learning and unsupervised learning?, asked in 2009, with all its glorious upvotes, if migrated to CV? Will it eventually be closed as a duplicate of their own existing thread on the same subject, asked back in 2010? Or the opposite will happen? Does any of these outcomes sound fair and satisfactory? I think not. Should we care at all?

We can and should care about our own history and legacy. We can and should keep it here, and take care of it. Ourselves. Fondly.

After all, if we don't do it, who will?

Who, really? :(

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    I honestly don't get the draw of "let's strangle these questions for being off-topic and then lovingly admire their corpse" but I guess I'm not personally invested enough.
    – Daniel F
    Jan 28, 2021 at 15:14
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    I'm not sure if you're joking or not, because highly upvoted content gets deleted all the time, in fact users raise flags to beg moderators to preserve value from deletion with a lock on the content.
    – Scratte
    Jan 28, 2021 at 15:41
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    "These questions are part of our legacy and our history" our (SO) legacy and history is one of sucking, you know? Of hard lessons and much drama. We've already done this several times in the past, with non-programming (later programmers, later software engineering), code reviews, game development, code golf, etc.
    – Braiam
    Jan 28, 2021 at 15:54
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    @Scratte the stuff you link to is very uneven, including posts deleted by OPs themselves and/or by moderators. That said, I think that locking questions such as the ones we are talking about here is indeed the ideal solution (no need even to coordinate anything with 3rd parties), instead of packing them and sending them away wholesale.
    – desertnaut
    Jan 28, 2021 at 16:00
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    I really disagree with this post, albeit as someone completely outside the bubble of SMEs on this topic. Moving knowledge that's off-topic here altogether to a place that would (presumably) take better care of it than we do, sounds like an excellent way of preserving our knowledge base and legacy, because I think that if we really care about the knowledge in our base, we'd be eager to preserve it if it doesn't fit here anymore; this is exactly what this proposal does, by giving it a safer, more fitting home.
    – zcoop98
    Jan 28, 2021 at 16:16
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    Holding on to scraps of off-topic knowledge just because they’re “part of our legacy” when they’d fit better somewhere else sounds like hoarding to me, not preserving. This also fully misses that fact that CrossValidated is building a knowledge base of their own, to which this would apparently be a great addition (according to their mods). Why is our repository more important than theirs?
    – zcoop98
    Jan 28, 2021 at 16:16
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    Maybe I'm just unusually unsentimental, but being "part of our legacy and our history" just ... doesn't seem like a good reason to keep it at all. You could say the same about the probably millions of garbage posts we've deleted over the years and no-one's fighting for us to keep all of those around. If you're happy with those getting deleted, which are equally "part of our legacy", but not these, then the distinction presumably has something to do with these posts having value outside of being part of a legacy. So really the argument should be about that intrinsic value.
    – NotThatGuy
    Jan 28, 2021 at 19:33
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    @NotThatGuy the whole argument (both in the question and in my answer, we agree on that) presumes that there is value in these posts, despite being off-topic here and now; if they were garbage, we would just delete them.
    – desertnaut
    Jan 28, 2021 at 19:44
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    @desertnaut But you're arguing that the questions are "part of our legacy", and it's a big deal to damage that legacy. I disagree. We shouldn't care about that at all. Stack Exchange is a network of Q&A sites, not an archive, and especially not an archive of it's own legacy. A historical lock might sometimes be applied to questions which are particularly valuable, but this should be the exception rather than the norm. What should be most important is where the questions will have the most value and best serve the wider world. If we wanted to archive our legacy, there would be better ways.
    – NotThatGuy
    Jan 28, 2021 at 20:11
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    Regarding updates, there probably won't be any, but it's not impossible that someone comes up with some new technique that makes a definition different for different techniques or just changes it to some degree, or even just that someone comes up with a great new way to explain it. Regarding deletion, it is fair game to delete anything that's closed (and not locked), whereas it's not possible for regular users to delete anything that's open, so that's at least a risk. Closed questions that's intended to remain relevant and applicable to the present is really not ideal.
    – NotThatGuy
    Jan 28, 2021 at 21:20
  • @NotThatGuy also, the lock should be self expiring. It's very unlikely that in years, nobody asked elsewhere the same question and got same or better answers.
    – Braiam
    Jan 28, 2021 at 23:03
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    "Even a superficial look at these questions by a trained eye (see disclaimer above) reveals that they are about very basic topics and definitions (ML 101), which have been textbook material since the 1990s at least. There are not...." I disagree with this argument. ML, like most scientific fields, is constantly evolving. Some recent advances have changed the way we think about foundational topics in ML. Some future advances could even affect answers to the questions on your list. Also, your list is only a small sampling of the ML questions that have been closed for being off-topic. Feb 11, 2021 at 16:48

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