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Following my comment here:

We really should have a literal Burn button that deletes the tag from all questions that uses it. It'd be mods-only (obviously) and would require approval from like 5 others before it occurs (maybe even SO staff escalation). How does that sound @BhargavRao, especially considering your enormous expertise in the tag burnination zone?

I have been encouraged to make a full-on feature request for this.

Burninating tags (especially tags like which was the subject of that question) with many questions would take many man-hours non-gender-specific-person-hours. As such, it'd be great to make something that burns tags. It'd be a mod-only privilege, requiring approval from 5 other community moderators and a SO/SE employee (because especially with lots of questions, it's a fairly large change to make to the site).

There may even be a community-wide announcement policy made - when a burn is approved, a featured Meta post goes out (on MSE...we need Meta MSE) and a notification sent to all inboxes (toggle-able of course - nobody wants to know that is being burnt, we all knew it wasn't going to last) in case anybody wants to raise a valid point that may prevent the burn. For this defence system to be available, we need to have a pending time (one week?), during which the approval of three moderators is required to cancel the burn, along with valid reasons that have been raised in the Meta post thread.

So, what do you all think? Obviously as the largest SE community, we have a fair amount of tags (over twelve thousand I think), and a fair amount of them aren't really that useful. Due to the complete lack of use of some tags (e.g. 15 questions), some tags may only require 2 mods and no announcement for deletion - but large tags (>1k questions, or possibly more) would require the whole shebang mentioned above.

And the tag would be blacklisted to prevent future use.

All feedback appreciated!

P.S. Tags that are being burned need to have a custom color/notification - which one of the below two do you prefer?

Excel is being burned (epic version)

Excel is being burned (practical version)

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  • 2
    Feature request for your feature request: add “and permanently blacklists it”.
    – Dan Bron
    Jun 28, 2019 at 10:48
  • 1
    The CMs already have this power, and have used it in the past.
    – Erik A
    Jun 28, 2019 at 10:49
  • 1
    Ooh yes @DanBron, that'll show 'em. Jun 28, 2019 at 10:49
  • We do have a process: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/324070/… to prevent that we spend time on useless burnination reqests or other nonsense.
    – rene
    Jun 28, 2019 at 10:50
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    "In practice, burnination means editing every question individually and removing the tag while doing any additional moderation (voting/flagging/editing)." When we burninate a tag, we shouldn't just be removing it, we should be cleaning up the tag as we go along. Skipping the cleanup and jumping right to the removal of the tag, while it would speed up the process, would get rid of one of the very few benefits of a tag burnination. I mean, what does erasing a tag get us except lowering a number? Some tags actively cause problems and need to get burned, but many are just useless, not problematic.
    – Davy M
    Jun 28, 2019 at 10:54
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    foremost we need to vote or voice opposition on the burnination requests that get posted. I can't rule out that on way too many votes are gathered on these requests due to their "punny" title, not on the merit of the content.
    – rene
    Jun 28, 2019 at 10:55
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    A major rehaul of a feature on Stack, geared towards more moderation? Good luck :/ (for what it's worth I agree it should happen....
    – Patrice
    Jun 28, 2019 at 10:56
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    If no one wrote a proper answer here I'll do so in 6 to 8 hours.
    – rene
    Jun 28, 2019 at 10:57
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    6 to 8 hours later I didn't expect you to spend all the time writing the answer @rene. Jun 28, 2019 at 10:58
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    uh, if every single burnination had an associated graphic, someone would end up spending more time creating those graphics than actually burning the tags.
    – Zoe is on strike Mod
    Jun 28, 2019 at 11:23
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    @Zoe somehow somewhere and for some reason, for Excel I think it is worth the effort.
    – Gimby
    Jun 28, 2019 at 12:48
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    It seems to me that tags are currently treated as part of the question body, rather than as separately controllable metadata. In my experience, most high-volume content management systems would implement them separately, and provide specific functionality to manipulate them. Surely it shouldn't be necessary to bump every relevant question in order to improve the retrievability and notification of questions. This should surely be an iterative process, as technologies develop. It feels as if SO sees indexing as entirely the OP's responsibility. I'd say it was too important for that.
    – MandyShaw
    Jun 28, 2019 at 14:17
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    This feature already exists for developers. We actively refuse to use it for some of the reasons already outlined here in the comments. Simply deleting the tag off everything tends to ignore a bunch of other problems.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Jun 28, 2019 at 14:26
  • @animuson I completely see that - you'd need more control - choice of replacement tag, if any, would be dependent on other tags present as well as on question content. This isn't about automation in my view, it's about indexing being coupled (too?) closely with question content.
    – MandyShaw
    Jun 28, 2019 at 14:39
  • If @rene does not write a proper answer in 6-8 hours, I'll write one more in 6-8 hours .. Jun 28, 2019 at 16:55

2 Answers 2

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It is really easy to get rid of an tag. There is a Community Manager that has both tooling and database access. Put in the right tag and its gone. If it was the last tag it will add to the question that is the only direct visible effect his action will have. PHP, Android, gone in seconds.

Oh, you don't trust that single person and want some sane people to chime in before the nuclear option is used?

Well, hello Meta and your tag which is the review queue for tags that are put up to be considered to be removed.
And this is where stuff became complex and rather deadlocked because:

  • way too many users fancy writing a punny title for their poorly researched requests
  • way too many users have an opinion about a tag they never heard of before
  • way too many users seem to vote on the merit of the punny title
  • way too many users assume others will do the often needed cleanup
  • way too many users bother about the process

Seeing all these mishaps and frustration by actual tag watchers to have their active page blown up, either by edits or due to the removal of their tag made that Jon Clements asked SOCVR to come up with an burnination process where some regulars of that room worked out a step-by-step process that includes side wide announcements, an period to allow for sane voting, a standarized answer template to capture the best approach to remove a tag and finalization.

It is often forgotten but the prime reason for a tag to exist is so the experts that can answer get the right questions in front of their eyes. It is hardly ever a mean for a visitor to find a question and their answers. That is why a simple voting process in a review will cause havoc among those users we need most: the experts.

In the FAQ on the final version of the Burination process there is this quote:

It might have been preferable to run this process purely on voting, but...that would inevitably lead to trouble. Your distaste for a frustrating game shouldn't result in the destruction of otherwise-valid tags.

which should remind all of us that vetting those kind of requests should not be taken lightheartedly.
That is why the process allows for the score of a request to garner enough votes or competing answers to emerge before anything is taken on. After that the featuring for two days should allow for any counter voices to be heard, after which the clean-up can start.

And clean-up for tags that cause trouble is often needed. The tag makes sure we can find the troubled posts for moderation. After all, for a sound burninate request the tag was put up for a burn for good reason. Bad content is often one reason. You can't nuke all posts together with the tag. That is why you need the clean-up phase. Yes, that seems like a lot of work, and it is, but some of us don't mind curating content. A simple nuke would leave the content on the site but now it is dispersed across other tags.

Over the last year the mod team, regulars from SOCVR and Trogdor processed 35 burnination requests. The Trogdor team asses all posts on meta with a relation to tags and offer a proposed call to action for a moderator. The mod team uses a super secret algorithm to decide which posts will get their attention and depending on the current state of the meta post, the initial assessment, cross-checking with regulars and/or SMEs and their own sanity they take action on the post. Actions range from to a full burnination or simply handing a tag to the Community Manager. Once a tag is burned some bots keep an eye on the recreation of that tag so it can be dealt with sooner. That also enables the mods to block tags based on evidence instead of gut feeling.

I think what you suggest already exists. A working and established process is in place. Its wheels are slowly turning while it eats its way through the backlog. Speed doesn't seem to be the essence of this process. Correctness is. Maybe it is a bit unknown that this process works for over a year now and that it did make a dent in open tag related requests on Meta. If anything, we need more users willing to use their experience and sanity checking in judging the burninate requests or even start helping out when we take on an actual burn.

tl;dr We don't need moar users that like to push the Nuke button.

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    To add to your list of problems with tag cleanups, the biggest in my view is that people tend to focus on tags that are simply unnecessary, not tags that are causing problems (i.e. being ambiguous). Spending time cleaning up the former is not a valuable use of one's time.
    – Servy
    Jun 28, 2019 at 20:52
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    I agree with that @Servy and I think it is one the aspects I would love to see more feedback on for burninate requests, preferable before it gets featured.
    – rene
    Jun 28, 2019 at 21:00
  • I'd certainly agree with @Servy's comment. I did discuss with Shog9 about handling burns of size >10k, when we mentioned about adding a 5th question "is it actively harmful?" to the burnination checklist. [internet] certainly was a "Yes" to that as it had become an active cesspool of bad questions with a very large unanswered percentage and high rate of closure. Tags like [api], [nosql], etc don't quite meet this criteria. In another discussion it was also decided to go more in favor of tag disambiguations rather than tag burninations, as the former makes tags more useful. Jun 29, 2019 at 20:53
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As explained by @BhargavRao's comment:

that system is already present, and we use it in the cases of 1k-10k sized burninations.

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    Bhargav Rao promised to write an answer if I didn't write a proper one. Now that I have delivered something sub par you can be sure the mod will write a competing answer. Quoting him is a nice prelude to the real thing.
    – rene
    Jun 28, 2019 at 20:36

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