8

The question that prompted this is already closed and downvoted so no further actions need to be taken and I'll post a link for context. I was the first close voter and my comment was, to the best of my knowledge:

This is off-topic for Stack Overflow. However, there is this

That comment, which had 2 upvotes last I checked, has been removed. That suggests to me that this is against policy. Given that the question already has bad treatment and was eventually closed, I'm curious what harm I did here? Am I really encouraging more recommendations by trying to help someone, while simultaneously using the mod tools available to me?

16
  • Was it a custom close reason?
    – rene
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:39
  • @rene No, it was not a custom reason. I commented and then voted
    – roganjosh
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:40
  • 1
    It was manually deleted by a moderator after being flagged as "no longer needed".
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:42
  • 1
    @CodyGray I'm curious how this was tagged "no longer needed" when the result of removing it leaves nothing but downvotes and a close vote for the OP, and the comment went at least some way to answering the question.
    – roganjosh
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:44
  • 6
    It was flagged a few minutes after the question was closed, so I'm guessing the flagger thought it was obsolete. There's no point in a comment saying that the question is off-topic for Stack Overflow when there's a giant yellow box that says the same thing, with more details and guidance on how to improve.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:45
  • @CodyGray none of which actually gives information to the asker. I won't dispute that there are plenty of warnings already, but I'm asking about the policy of a comment that does try to help them move forward with their problem
    – roganjosh
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:47
  • In other words, what was the benefit of flagging that and then a moderator choosing to remove it?
    – roganjosh
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:48
  • 4
    "none of which actually gives information to the asker." What do you mean? The asker can read the text in the big yellow box, too.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:49
  • @CodyGray yes, they can read how to use the site. It doesn't tell them how to fix their actual problem. I posted another comment (here) afterwards.
    – roganjosh
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:50
  • 5
    Some people are of the mindset that closing but helping means users never learn about what's accepted or not (after all, since you get your answer regardless, why care about a question being opened or closed?) I don't agree necessarily(depends a lot on the situation and context of the question and the asker) but I can see where they are coming from. Broken window and whatnot.
    – Patrice
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:50
  • 10
    Oh, I see. You want to abuse the comment feature as a way to "answer" a question that we have already established should not be answered on Stack Overflow, as evidenced by the fact that you and I both agree with its closure. Yeah...that's probably another reason why it was deleted.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:52
  • 7
    @CodyGray yes, your totally sarcastic response to the issue where I tried to provide information to someone for literally no benefit to myself in any circumstance is exactly what I was shooting for. I chose to look up and link to a resource for my pleasure.
    – roganjosh
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 12:54
  • 2
    How can it descend to this? The bottom line was that I provided information that I thought was useful to the asker and was the first to cast a close vote. Now I'm being accused of trying to game a system. Ridiculous.
    – roganjosh
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 13:00
  • 2
    You may want to consider using something more descriptive than "this" for your helpful link to an external resource. Looking at that comment without following or hovering over the link shows no benefit for its existence. Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 13:01
  • 9
    You seem to be lashing out. You may want to take a step away from the keyboard, take a walk or whatever, and come back in a few minutes. I would suggest the same to @CodyGray. Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 13:04

3 Answers 3

16

Given that the question already has bad treatment and was eventually closed, I'm curious what harm I did here?

Closing off-topic questions is not bad treatment, it is exactly what is expected of those with close vote privileges who encounter a question that shouldn't be answered in its current state.

Your comment carried two messages: One that the question was off-topic and one where the OP could start to find the information they are looking for. It might for the flagger and the moderator that handled the flag not have been clear that your link contained a reference to an external resource that the OP asked for. They might have assumed the link was to some meta post, or the help centre in which case your comment is no longer needed as all that info is already present in the close notice.

Am I really encouraging more recommendations by trying to help someone, while simultaneously using the mod tools available to me?

Yes, by leaving a comment to an external resource, answering the request from the OP you are encouraging more of these kind of posts, from both the OP and casual visitors.

If you stick to comments to help the OP improve their question you serve both OP and the community better. This doesn't mean you never can include a link to great starting point. For example1 you could have said:

Your question would be better answerable if you share a specific problem you face with leveraging your model with a Decision Tree Regressor. If you're not ready for that yet work on getting that insight first and then address your question.

It is still not awesome but at least it tries to go that one step further to guide the OP towards a better question. You could even sneak in a link in that comment.


  1. I have no idea what I'm talking about.
1
  • Thank you for your balanced answer. You are probably correct here, I will take time to think about the points you've made
    – roganjosh
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 13:26
10

Let's assume for the moment that I'm a bad user of this site. I don't care about community standards, building a quality database, or even reading comprehension. I have a problem, and I want it solved. Right now.

So I post a question. If that question gets closed, I can see why. I had a negative experience, and with luck, I will read something about how not to create that negative experience again.

However, let's do the exact same thing, but also add a comment that gives me the answer I was looking for. Well yes, my question is closed, but as previously mentioned, all I care about is getting a solution. Which I now have. So I've learned that SO will sometimes give me answers, even though 5 people decided to say that my question shouldn't get answers.

I am therefore encouraged to do the same thing again.

So while:

I tried to provide information to someone for literally no benefit to myself in any circumstance

Your actions have the side effect of encouraging bad behavior out of the user.

We close questions in part to say "don't come here looking for that kind of help". Providing that help anyway is not helpful towards our goals.

2
  • 1
    I see what you're saying but I'd argue that the downvotes and the close vote (which do actually affect the asker) was enough of a message against what they asked. This is a pretty cold world you're painting here.
    – roganjosh
    Commented Mar 31, 2019 at 10:52
  • @roganjosh: "was enough of a message against what they asked" But it's not. And we know it's not because these people tell us. When they come to MSO to complain about downvoting or closing or whatever, they'll occasionally talk about the "nice people" who answered in comments and rail against the rest of us for stopping the "nice people" from answering their question properly. Maybe some of them learn, but there are plenty who don't. Commented Mar 31, 2019 at 13:23
-4

That suggests to me that this is against policy.

That your comment is deleted, for whatever reason, should give rise to no such suggestion. Comments are ephemeral: post them in the knowledge you expect them to be deleted at any arbitrary point and you'll be fine.

Other examples demonstrating this principle:

  • If you post a comment expecting a responding comment, then the SO interface probably isn't for you. Don't expect a response.
  • If I ask for clarification, I regularly instruct OP to edit their post. If they choose to ignore this advice and respond by comment, I usually forego answering the question altogether.

For the record, I think your comment is fine. In addition, given my previous interaction with you I know you are only trying to be helpful. But there should be no expectation that it should exist on SO for any arbitrary period of time. Moderators regularly delete any comment that's flagged as "No longer required" if it's not clear how that comment improves a question or an answer.

2
  • I really appreciate the last paragraph. Somehow the comments under my question went astray. But someone did flag my comment and I now wonder whether I overstepped a line in posting it in the first place. I don't expect comments to last forever, but active removal is different
    – roganjosh
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 14:25
  • @roganjosh, Sure, I mean - my advice is if you want to help continue what you are doing. I know this counters the other 2 answers. But just don't spend too much time on any single comment, because (as you've found) anyone can just flag as "No longer required" - and such a flag does not have too high a bar for success.
    – jpp
    Commented Mar 30, 2019 at 14:27

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .