-33

I have asked public opinion about failed review audit: Failed audit: debatable link only?

And got what I want: votes, discussion, but also many "too personal" thrown phrases:

"You have two options here: Continue arguing.. or.. learn"

".. it was effective in your case."

if I were you I'd try not to fight this,

IMHO this is offtopic that just provoke opponents for further offtopic discussions: which options actually he have, what he should, fighting he or discussing, etc. Really, have I asked "what I should"?

I have marked some of them with flags (one was deleted) but people use them so freely, that I want too ask Meta in open question: does the style of communication you tolerate there? How strict is "stay on the topic" rule in answers and comments?

7
  • 13
    How is 'in your situation I would do this differently' not on topic? Someone is literally giving you what they would do if they were in your current situation..
    – Patrice
    Oct 28, 2018 at 12:50
  • 5
    I don’t see these as too personal or really even notable. I think they’re just saying “you are wrong”.
    – Dan Bron
    Oct 28, 2018 at 12:50
  • 17
    How would you like "sorry, you were wrong here" be worded then?
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Oct 28, 2018 at 12:52
  • 8
    We've got a comfortable couch over there, lie down and try to relax. It is not unusual for SO users to be brainiacs that never once failed a test in their life. And find it inconceivable that they ever will. They'll doubt the veracity of test before considering they might have made a mistake. Which is a lost opportunity, it is only by making mistakes that we learn what is not taught. If they reject the teacher as well then they can't get ahead. You don't have to expose yourself to such discomfort, review is an optional activity. Oct 28, 2018 at 13:07
  • "You are wrong", and "you should" are two different styles. I do not say that second is bad - it is good for some situations and wildly used between some kind of people. But I'm saying that this offtopic and a provocation of offtopic discussions. Just need to know is it ok there. Oct 28, 2018 at 14:53
  • 8
    To answer your direct question: "yes, it is OK here" Oct 28, 2018 at 20:04
  • 4
    Of course, as long as no personal attacks are present. Debate the idea, disagree with it, strongly if desired, but don't put down the person. Oct 28, 2018 at 21:18

2 Answers 2

19

You are quoting me in all these examples, so I feel kinda obliged to respond.

In all the lines where I address you directly, is because of you were not referring to an hypothetical case, but to an actual review audit which not only you failed, but argued against its validity.

I could have phrased all these in a more impersonal manner (and I'll edit that answer to do so after I post this one). E.g by writing:

"There are two options here: Continue arguing.. or.. learn"

".. it was effective in this case."

if it was me who had failed this audit, I would not try not to fight this

Even so, all this would have been only grammatical sugar; as it would have been very clear what audit I was referring, what case I was talking about, who had these options...

And referring to you directly it is not an attack or a distraction: the audit, your opinion about the audit, and your actions regarding this and similar audits are very much the topic of the question.

Finally, let me apologize if you felt singled out or in any way offended by my remarks. There were not meant that way, but as honest attempts in helping you.

4
  • You do not need apologize, it is a culture differences, be what you are. But you can edit your post if you agree that these was offtopic. Oct 28, 2018 at 14:57
  • 11
    No, I’m sorry but I do not agree. I edited my answer a tiny bit, but in the end I do not feel any of my remarks were “off-topic” in any way.
    – yivi
    Oct 28, 2018 at 14:59
  • When you are citing yourself there as "effective in this case" actually your comment was "effective in your case" . Is this your tiny bit edit? Oct 28, 2018 at 15:02
  • 1
    I can’t recall and I’m on a mobile device right now. You can check my latest edit by going through the answer ‘s revisions.
    – yivi
    Oct 28, 2018 at 15:03
13

Those remarks are fine. yivi's justification of them is entirely appropriate, and they aren't unfriendly or abrasive -- in particular, the first quote looks quite a bit milder once we quote some more of it:

Continue arguing than the audit was wrong, and get frustrated about it; [or] Learn from the experience [...]

You have pointed out (I'm quoting the original revision of this question, as the phrasing is clearer there) that:

I have not asked "what I should?"

That is a poor reason to object. Meta is a discussion venue in which individual users give feedback about community actions, and the community in turn gives feedback about individual user actions. In both directions, openness to advice is one of the building blocks for healthy, productive discussions. Meta is not a court of appeals.

9
  • I do not use Meta as a court, just want to get some answers on my questions. Here the question was are "too personal insinuations" offtopic and offtopic provocation or not. Why "poor reason" ? I think it is just a boring waste of time. Who wants to read this and replies on this? for what? Oct 28, 2018 at 15:38
  • 8
    @RomanPokrovskij My point is that there was no "provocation" nor "insinuations" there, just ordinary giving and receiving of feedback. You are demanding more impersonality than Meta is supposed to provide.
    – duplode
    Oct 28, 2018 at 15:45
  • It is become obvious. Too few people who can keep "you are.." (and then insinuation) for themselves. Oct 28, 2018 at 17:12
  • 1
    @Roman "Too few people who can keep "you are.." (and then insinuation) for themselves." So, you prefer doing insinuations (like that very sentence about foo few people) passive aggressive and not say directly what you think? That sounds... much worse. You, as in, you the person, effectively have two (actually much more than two, but two of these choices are) to continue arguing, or to learn. This is language: it serves to indicate the subject. The subject is you. It's not rude to indicate that it is. Oct 29, 2018 at 11:35
  • Who say rude? It is just offtopic. Oct 29, 2018 at 11:55
  • And offtopic discussion provocation: "you are yellow", "no I am green". Who is interesting in that? Oct 29, 2018 at 12:01
  • 1
    @Roman Alright, not "rude", off topic. No, it's not off topic to suggest actions to someone who has a problem, this is actually super on topic. Eg "Q: Hey, I have a problem with baz. A: You can do x or y". How is that off-topic? It's directly answering the problematic! Yivi was not speaking of color, they were directly addressing the situation. Oct 29, 2018 at 15:07
  • Compare to understand: " 'too personal' provokes offtopic discussions", and "you are on the same wave as yivi but should try to understand others: 'too personal' provokes offtopic discussions ". Some parts of the sentence presents not for information but for provocation. Compare context where yivi have used "it was effective in YOUR case." (when now trying to cite as "this text") Oct 29, 2018 at 17:01
  • again, insinuation there is not something rude or not a phrase starting with "you are", as "you are wrong" but unnecessary speculation about oterh person (with intention to show this person the way you want). unnecessary and unpleasant are the keys there. Oct 29, 2018 at 17:09

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .