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I came across an answer to an obvious duplicate recently, along the lines of:

As answered here

var date1 = new Date("7/13/2010");
var date2 = new Date("12/15/2010");
var timeDiff = Math.abs(date2.getTime() - date1.getTime());
var diffDays = Math.ceil(timeDiff / (1000 * 3600 * 24));
alert(diffDays);`

My first reaction was to point the answererer at the How should duplicate questions be handled? and to say that they should really flag this as a duplicate not answer it. But then I read the answer in this FAQ and it's changed a lot! Whereas it previously stated:

Should I answer it?

No, not if you think it's a duplicate. If you don't think the answers on the target question are good enough, write an answer there.

If you don't think the question is a duplicate, then by all means do answer it.

It now states:

Should I answer it?

It depends. Try to look at the proposed duplicate from the perspective and perceived skill level of the asker - could they use a little extra help understanding how the information in the duplicate pertains in the context of what they're working on? A short answer explaining how or why the duplicate likely eluded them will not only help the asker, but also help future visitors better refine their search skills.

If the answers on the proposed duplicate needs no introduction, then there's no need to provide one. If you want to contribute a better answer, just write one on the proposed duplicate instead.

Did I miss a meta post on this? Was this change in policy discussed with the community? This seems to of been arbitrarily changed yesterday without any discussion. Are we now encouraging users to answer obvious duplicates?

I despair I really do...

Update

I have now updated the FAQ based on my answer below.

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    Revision history for that meta post. The recent changes have mostly been made by Tim Post. I'm not aware of a meta discussion preceding these changes, but that's not required for every faq change, and we can retroactively discuss them and roll back if we think that's appropriate. I'd suggest discussing this on MSE, not MSO, since the post is on MSE too.
    – Erik A
    Aug 16, 2018 at 12:04
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    This is my (slightly exaggerated) way of reading that: If you think OP is stupid you should answer it. Aug 16, 2018 at 12:09
  • Happy for this to be migrated across to MSE if required
    – Liam
    Aug 16, 2018 at 12:27
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    FWIW, I think I object to the change. If it's unclear how the duplicate applies to the question being asked to such a degree that you need to provide not just a comment but a whole answer worth of explanation about how to apply the duplicate to the subject at hand, isn't that a pretty strong sign that it's not really a duplicate and shouldn't be closed at all? How can it possibly be consistent to concede that there's enough explanation to be done that an answer is valuable, but then deliberately stop other people from answering and providing a better explanation.
    – Mark Amery
    Aug 16, 2018 at 12:45
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    In your also (referring to downvoting), you've read it wrong. It says lack of adequate preparation prior to asking, which is always grounds for downvoting. It doesn't say we're not supposed to downvote for "lack of research" - in fact, it says just the opposite.
    – Ken White
    Aug 16, 2018 at 12:48
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    @Mark, I think that the key difference is that the change in the guidance nows referes to the perceived skill level of the poster. So a question is or is not a duplicate if I think the questionner will or wont understand the dupe target...
    – yivi
    Aug 16, 2018 at 12:48
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    @yivi If the dupe is truly a dupe, but is too hard for a beginner to understand, I'd think that the solution is to lightly edit the dupe question to make it more accessible and to add a beginner-friendly answer - not to have an open, hard-to-understand question and a closed beginner-friendly version of it that only you, the special and privileged dupe-voter, are permitted to answer. Deciding that a question would benefit from an answer but then closing it seems like a contradiction to me, whatever the justification for the closure.
    – Mark Amery
    Aug 16, 2018 at 12:51
  • @Mark, I'm not saying otherwise. I'm just pointing out what's the difference in the updated guidance. It's not about "having to write a new answer", but about the asker's perceived skill level.
    – yivi
    Aug 16, 2018 at 12:53
  • I'm in w minds about the downvoting text TBH. Having read the whole content thoughly it's not saying don't downvote, it's just been reworded.
    – Liam
    Aug 16, 2018 at 12:56
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    "A short answer explaining how or why the duplicate likely eluded them " Dear user x. The reason why you couldn't find the duplicate is most likely because it is literally impossible to find duplicates on SO even for experienced users. It doesn't matter if you use a sensible search method, such as automatically suggested duplicates, the SO search engine or Google. The only way you can do so is to keep a private list of links to canonical duplicates. Until you have gathered such a list over many years of using SO, kindly get lost. Thank you.
    – Lundin
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:33
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    @TimPost can this be made a hot meta post (may happen anyway), featured, or for some announcement to be given so people know to at least check the update to this FAQ? I only found this post by chance and this seems a big departure from the previous version.
    – LinkBerest
    Aug 16, 2018 at 22:03
  • I don't necessarily mean a"we changed the FAQ!!!" style post, where you need to keep making a post for each one. More just a post that says "We are updating the help/FAQs" and then update on recently changed ones so it could be checked by people periodically. Again as, though I appreciate the need to change and update the help sections and don't disagree with most of these changes here, I only found out about them by chance - a heads-up would have been appreciated.
    – LinkBerest
    Aug 17, 2018 at 12:10

3 Answers 3

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Given the suggestion from Tim:

Nothing is preventing you from editing the same article that I did :)

I would suggest that at least some of that text is put back. So something along the lines of:

Should I answer it?

No, not if you think it's a duplicate. That said; try to look at the proposed duplicate from the perspective and perceived skill level of the asker - could they use a little extra help understanding how the information in the duplicate pertains in the context of what they're working on? Maybe also add a comment explaining how or why the duplicate likely eluded them will not only help the asker. If the asker really needs more help understanding the duplicate and you can't do this adequately in a comment then you can add an answer. Think carefully about doing this, don't add answers that just re-iterate the duplicate.

If the answers on the proposed duplicate needs no introduction, then there's no need to provide one. If you want to contribute a better answer, just write one on the proposed duplicate instead.

I've also added some emphasis and I've also changed the line:

A short answer explaining

to

Maybe also add a comment explaining

Feedback?

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    Adding back "No, not if you think it's a duplicate" upfront makes for a good compromise.
    – duplode
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:21
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    My feedback: We discourage answers as comments, but I'm okay with that rule bending a little as long as the person having their question closed gets the context needed to know folks were actually being helpful in doing it :) I would also say that, if you have context that just won't fit in a comment, an answer can be okay. This is temporary anyway, because we need to give the workflow some more attention (which is planned hopefully before the last quarter this year).
    – user50049
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:22
  • @TimPost tried to incorporate this into the abve
    – Liam
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:45
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    I would leave out this bit: That said; try to look at the proposed duplicate from the perspective and perceived skill level of the asker - could they use a little extra help understanding how the information in the duplicate pertains in the context of what they're working on? Not only is it a lot but also because of reasons Aug 16, 2018 at 14:53
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    You could direct them to use a comment to explain to the user why the duplicate fits their needs -- that way, you're not answering the question, you're making the duplicate more useful to the user.
    – Davy M
    Aug 16, 2018 at 16:23
  • Should I edit the Comment auto-created by the flagging, or write up a new one since the automatic one is deleted when the question is closed? Aug 16, 2018 at 20:36
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    I've updated the FAQ
    – Liam
    Aug 17, 2018 at 7:22
  • @Luca Do write a new comment -- comments of this kind shouldn't vanish immediately upon closure. See also: Make the automatic deletion of “possible duplicate of” comments more precise
    – duplode
    Aug 18, 2018 at 22:02
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This is the main change:

how the information in the duplicate pertains in the context of what they're working on?

I've always feel that the litmus test for duplicates is wholly inappropriate. The "if one of the answers on the target answers this question then it is a duplicate" doesn't make sense in the very messy and wonky way programs behave, not very unlike quantum mechanics. That change break that litmus test. I would still prefer if it aligns with this alternative:

All possible answers to both questions are the same

Since, it implies a semantically equivalence of both questions (ie. asking the same thing with different words). I still don't like the new version, since it not only allows wiggle room for the previous litmus test but also presume all SE is of a technical nature, but it's not worse than the previous one.

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    +1 for All possible answers to both questions are the same. Too often I see "this is a dupe because the answer on the other post solves this question" - while true, this does not guarantee all answers on either question are transportable between the two.
    – jpp
    Aug 16, 2018 at 13:31
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    However, more careful wording may be necessary. Remember you can link to 2 or more duplicate targets, each covering different aspects of a question.
    – jpp
    Aug 16, 2018 at 13:32
  • I struggled a bit with wording there while also trying to keep brevity in mind. I would not mind suggestions to pin it down better at all, in fact, I'd really appreciate them.
    – user50049
    Aug 16, 2018 at 13:40
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    This is actively harmful advice for the most common situation, that someone asks a fairly narrow question about their code, and it gets an answer explaining how to solve the problem not just for that one person's code, but for anyone with the same problem, creating a question that is a great duplicate target for anyone else with the same problem, having differences not relevant to a good answer. That people can write lower quality answers without explaining the underlying problem in a way others with the same problem could learn from doesn't make the questions not duplicates.
    – Servy
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:25
  • @Servy in those cases, we just edit the question to make it more canonical. I don't see the problem.
    – Braiam
    Aug 16, 2018 at 17:13
  • @Braiam Unless you change both, and edit them to say exactly the same thing, then your criteria still wouldn't apply. If we're just going to edit every single duplicate question to be the same as what the canonical is asking, there's no point in even having them, we might as well just always delete every one.
    – Servy
    Aug 16, 2018 at 17:22
  • @Servy what "both"? You said "someone asks a fairly narrow question" and " an answer explaining how to solve the problem [...] for anyone with the same problem". Making more canonical just mean removing the specific bits to make the question asking for that answer. Like changing "how to sum two numbers" to "how addition works" when there's an answer that explains how addition works. You can then use that question to close as duplicate that deal with "sum x numbers". You removed information from the question, just that. No need to edit the answer.
    – Braiam
    Aug 17, 2018 at 12:10
  • @Braiam But then if anyone else asks a narrow question, even if it's solved by a canonical answer that works for anyone with that problem, then "All possible answers to both questions are the same" won't be true, because the duplicate won't be asked in a conical way, unless you edit every single duplicate question to match the canonical.
    – Servy
    Aug 17, 2018 at 13:10
  • @Servy well, yes, it will be all possible good answers. Remember, my test is for good answers, anything but good answers, should be removed anyways and therefore inexistent.
    – Braiam
    Aug 17, 2018 at 13:36
  • @Braiam No, answers that are answers but that aren't good answers don't merit deletion. That's not how the site works. You can downvote an answer if you think it's not a good answer. Again, a good answer for a very narrow question may not be a good answer for a somewhat broader question, even though a good answer for the somewhat broader question would be a good answer for the narrower question.
    – Servy
    Aug 17, 2018 at 13:41
0

Meta is great, but often stinks for trying to fish out any kind of consensus on anything, especially how or when to make a subjective call. I didn't consider that edit to be reaching at all, or at all controversial, or I would have started a discussion.

Your votes will always be your business, guidance sometimes helps.

But what we had there, barely one sentence, wasn't coming close to even hinting that the decision might have complexities.

From what I thought was a shared perspective (which Braiam reinforced), we need more guidance to reinforce empathy considerations when it comes to what needs a downvote. Why? Because they're being used increasingly punitively. If a question is clear and one could reasonably infer that the asker simply didn't know what to search for, then that's something that should be considered. Right now, questions that do show some research effort (albeit, totally wrong) are just as likely to end up at -9 as something that didn't show any effort at all.

We shouldn't refrain from down-voting out of feeling sorry (see also the issue with sympathy upvotes), but it's not unreasonable to try to put yourself in the other person's skill level and factor your observations into your decision on how to vote.

That's bad for engagement, and it clouds the signal that downvotes were intended to send.

Regarding answering, this is what quite a few folks are doing, because we're having major issues with people seeing questions closed as duplicates (correctly), but they don't realize it, because the target is a long canonical post and the person simply lacks the skill to see how it's supposed to apply. So yes, it's considerate to leave an answer (or a comment) indicating how to apply the target to what's in their editor, or at least, what specific take-aways from the target should they be attempting to ingest? We strongly discourage good answers in comments so ...

Now, I will raise a note about these in the future; there are quite a few more places both in the help center and on old FAQ entries where stuff needs to be updated simply to keep up with the times. We're slowly working to make the user interface better enforce rules, or at least advertise that they exist, because it's very easy to accidentally discover quite a few ways to fail spectacularly even if you search meta. That's .. the consensus problem, again.

I can't promise a discussion for every single change (and again, I saw this as more adding clarity than adding policy), but I will err on assuming my perspective is probably biased even if it's shared with hundreds of users that we interact with, and increasingly more that we've been interviewing.

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    "So yes, it's considerate to leave an answer (or a comment) indicating how to apply the target to what's in their editor [...]" -- I have always been happy to do that through a comment, while assuming that posting an answer to a question that should be closed was a big no-no. That is the part of the change that surprised me (and, I presume, the Meta OP here) the most.
    – duplode
    Aug 16, 2018 at 13:42
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    "this is what quite a few folks are doing" - but are they right to, or is this an abuse of the system? I guess I'd like to see some examples to help me judge, but answering a question and then closing it to shut down any possibility of someone posting a competing answer strikes me as really obviously shady and abusive in all circumstances. (I say "to" shut down, implying intent and purpose, because that's literally the only function that closure serves.)
    – Mark Amery
    Aug 16, 2018 at 13:44
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    Answering duplicates is certainly not appreciated by everyone. Even though others are doing it, that doesn't mean there's consensus it's OK.
    – Erik A
    Aug 16, 2018 at 13:47
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    @Braiam Then you go ahead and answer it, and this whole conversation is irrelevant.
    – Mark Amery
    Aug 16, 2018 at 13:51
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    @Braiam You vandalize the question/rant on meta and get closed as a duplicate again/create a comic/all of the above? Or you could edit the question and explain how you've tried those answers and it doesn't solve the question
    – Erik A
    Aug 16, 2018 at 13:55
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    I can't promise a discussion for every single change which is fine, but the clear should I answer a duplicate -> No to the vague should I answer a duplicate -> if you want to seems very far reaching to me. It totally caught me by surprise and I'm guessing I'm not the only one. It would of been nice to of been told that this was happening and not stumble across it by accident?
    – Liam
    Aug 16, 2018 at 13:57
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    This and other recent actions lead me to the conclusion that SE simply doesn't care what it's user base thinks anymore. This is what we're doing, deal with it, seems to be the approach of late
    – Liam
    Aug 16, 2018 at 13:58
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    @Liam Nothing is preventing you from editing the same article that I did :) I thought I was clarifying how most people generally felt about it, and I did it because the guidance there was very terse, and problematic. I have not issued an edict, I'm not an autocrat. I can say, we're never going to put copy in the UX that says "don't answer this question" if the question is open. So, whatever we write in the FAQ entry is going to need to consider that people, well, often just answer them (which is why I'm surprised that you were so surprised, if that makes any sense).
    – user50049
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:01
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    @Braiam "If you and I, don't agree whenever a question is a duplicate, then any of us answering it will trigger the other into escalation" - no: I haven't argued (and don't believe) that you answering a question that I think is a duplicate is abusive; of course there's room for us to legitimately disagree about whether some particular question deserves closure, as indeed we probably have previously. Rather, my claim is that for you to answer a question and then close it as a duplicate yourself - which is what Tim explicitly advocates for in his edit to the FAQ - is inherently abusive.
    – Mark Amery
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:07
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    @Braiam Imo answers should include a brief explanation why a solution works, not just only a do this to fix command. If you write up an answer with an explanation, that answer can't fit under the dupe target, so that's all OK by me. Only if the explanation why is also identical, then we have a true duplicate.
    – Erik A
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:09
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    @Liam What we might need to do is address the case where it's a duplicate, as in "we need people hitting this question to see this canonical post", but it's not entirely clear why to someone of beginner-to-intermediate skill. An answer prior to closing solves that case nicely, which is why answering to close was looking like it was the best idea. I don't think we should say it's never okay to close it, but for now, maybe we could just say "Generally, no, but there are some rare cases" .. like that?
    – user50049
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:12
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    hmmm, it's an interesting point @TimPost. Isn't that just covered by "is this a duplicate" question? If someone asks the question, I've seen this answer but I need some explanation on, then that's valid but ultimately a different question.
    – Liam
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:14
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    I mean I know folks want absolute guidance, but sometimes, the best we can do is ask that they use their best judgement and give a little hint as to what might sway them to either choice. That's what I thought my edit did, but I can see why you want something more like the previous, I don't think something between the two would be horrible while we work out how to modernize the duplicate flow (which is something we're soon doing).
    – user50049
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:14
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    If you feel that the answer to the canonical post is way too long, contains way more information than it ought to have, and is not going to be understood by people that have that problem because it's too complex, lengthy, has too much irrelevant information, etc. then the solution is not to post a more concise and easier to understand answer to every single duplicate question of it, but rather to post a more concise, easier to understand, answer to the canonical question (or edit it, depending on the situation).
    – Servy
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:18
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    @Servy ... or to stop closing things as duplicates of the giant, overbroad canonical, and instead create a bunch of smaller, more narrowly-scoped canonicals. If the reason the answer to a canonical is huge is that the question scope is broad, then a shorter, simpler answer may only answer a fraction of the question.
    – Mark Amery
    Aug 16, 2018 at 14:23

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