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As it is right now, the only way moderators have to "question-ban" a user on Meta, is by banning the user on main.

I'd like to request a separation in the question ban mechanic, so it becomes possible for moderators to manually question-ban a user, only on Meta.

Why do we need this?

There's this user... While his mainsite contributions are fine, his questions on Meta are far from "fine".

They are mostly badly thought out bug reports about non-issues.
A history like this would've been plenty to question-ban the user on main, but sadly, on meta, it just doesn't matter:

enter image description here

The only reason this specific case isn't "question-banned" on Meta right now is because the only way to do so would be to ban the whole account. (That's what I got as a reply to flags) I agree that that would be excessive.

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  • 12
    It is probably worth emphasising "manual" -- as far as Meta is concerned, human judgement is necessary to distinguish between problematic posts and merely unpopular ones.
    – duplode
    May 8, 2018 at 8:14
  • 1
    @duplode: Good point. Yes, I'm asking for a manual question ban option for moderators. I've slightly tweaked the question.
    – Cerbrus
    May 8, 2018 at 8:19
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    Even if I dislike this users' contributions, I think meta is low volume enough to make focusing in these "bothersome but not really problematic" users is not really worth it. These posts are easy to vote on and ignore, IMO.
    – yivi
    May 8, 2018 at 8:33
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    @yivi: Normally, I'd agree with you. But this is a case where the user sometimes posts multiple badly thought out bug reports in a day, frustrating other users, resulting in multiple flags. He doesn't seem to learn. I feel there should be some kind of repercussion other than simply having the questions downvoted (which basically means nothing)
    – Cerbrus
    May 8, 2018 at 8:44
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    Nicely played, but no, we're not going to ban you ...
    – rene
    May 8, 2018 at 9:17
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    Your image doesn't really show anything. You're showing the user's vote count, but votes on meta are like points on Who's Line Is It Anyway?, they don't indicate quality, they more indicate agreement/disagreement.
    – zero298
    May 9, 2018 at 14:17
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    @zero298: Those are mostly bug reports. If anything, these votes indicate the validity of the reports. I'm going to ask you to take my word for it, those questions are bad. (I don't want to link to the user, we don't need a witch hunt)
    – Cerbrus
    May 9, 2018 at 14:25
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    In the case of this particular user, the user is usually a very productive contributor on the main site, it's just the Meta presence that is very low quality. I really like how you're looking for a solution to directly address Meta instead of something that will affect the main site.
    – Davy M
    Jul 5, 2018 at 7:03

3 Answers 3

51

Access to meta is important to be able to dispute and talk about moderator actions, and get necessary site support. As such, I think a meta ban is a bit harsh and probably unwanted, since the user can't ask why he got banned on meta, as he's banned on meta, and can't really defend himself. This might feel like censorship to the user.

Instead of banning, I propose we could rate-limit, to make the point that issues raised on meta should actually be important, and to avoid flooding meta with bad requests. My proposal would be to limit the user to 1 question per 2 months, not counting any questions before the limit was imposed, to allow the user to ask for clarification about the limit immediately.

Hopefully, when rate-limited, the user will put more effort into the questions he can ask, and focus only on relevant issues. And if he/she doesn't, at least we'll only be annoyed every 2 months.

Of course, the interval is a bit random, and a longer interval might be required

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    I didn't think about that... A rate limit sounds like a good alternative.
    – Cerbrus
    May 8, 2018 at 8:28
  • Then there should be a warning before posting the first question (otherwise you would not be able to ask about the limit anyway before the limit ends)
    – user202729
    May 8, 2018 at 13:38
  • @user202729 The way I envision it, is that since such limits are manual, a mod will message you with a quick explanation of what's happening. You'll notice that. Then, perhaps, the same messages can appear that do if you're rate limited on the regular site.
    – Erik A
    May 8, 2018 at 13:40
  • An other option would be to remove the "use meta privilege". Then the users could just ask about there own questions (new feature here on StackOverflow)
    – MEE
    May 11, 2018 at 8:22
14

It used to be possible to suspend a user only on the meta site, at least in the way that the button was there and a moderator could initiate a suspension on the meta site. When someone actually did that, all kinds of funny things happened because the meta site users are periodically synced from the main site users. As a response to that, SE removed the ability to suspend users on meta sites entirely, as it simply does not make any sense given how meta users are implemented behind the scenes.

Meta users aren't really a distinct entity from the main site users, so I wouldn't expect anything to be implemented that breaks this concept and would require extensive changes to the whole thing.

This sounds like a case for the automatic throttling and question ban system that already exists. My understanding is that this also exists on meta sites, but with much higher thresholds. It might make sense to at least look at the throttling criteria, but an actual question ban should be a rare exception, if not exist at all on meta sites.

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  • I've done some research (as I previously thought this didn't apply to meta), but you're right, it does. See this answer for some evidence (apparently, the formula for throttling has been revised twice to make it occur less). While manual limits could be a useful measure, they might not be needed if we already have automatic throttling.
    – Erik A
    May 8, 2018 at 15:35
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A Day in the Penalty Box (the blog post announcing the introduction of suspensions) lists this as one of the major reasons for suspensions:

No effort to learn and improve over time

  • This user does not put reasonable effort into the questions they ask of the community.
  • There is little or no evidence of this user learning over time, either in the topic itself or in the community norms on the site.
  • This user intentionally spams the site with the same question or very similar questions, over and over.
  • The user never gives anything back to the community, but only takes.

Based on the information you've provided, it sounds like the first two criteria definitely apply to the user's Meta posts (does not put reasonable effort into questions, no evidence of learning over time). "Low-quality contributions" is actually a valid suspension reason still - while it's typically used for help vampires that somehow manage to evade question bans, it seems like this case might merit it.

TL;DR Just give the user in question a short suspension and ask them to improve their question quality going forward - odds are there's no need to implement a manual ban.

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