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What can SO do to discourage users from abusing the community?


See https://stackoverflow.com/a/50105298/2191572

enter image description here

This is obviously not a screenshot of my answer but never have I felt more disgusted to provide an answer to a user.


On a tangent:

For quite some time I have been noticing SO users becoming more and more impatient and reluctant to try an answer which is better than what they were asking for; this often happens in questions where OP "must" use something like regex for undisclosed reasons.

I don't think that SO has a tenured community problem, SO has an incoming user problem.

Please, let's not lose sight of

Stack Overflow is a question and answer site for professional and enthusiast programmers.

just because someone decides to write an ill-informed blog once in a blue moon.


After-thought:

I guess this is a testament to the power of SO's very active community since OP was able to ask a question and receive an answer before the exam was finished but it's very unsettling.

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    "homework" questions aren't new. This one just happened to be better written than the usual copy and paste of the entire assignment.
    – Andy Mod
    May 1, 2018 at 12:28
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    I'm surprised you're surprised
    – rene
    May 1, 2018 at 12:36
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    I suspect that nothing can be done. Posters get quite good at hiding their homework/exam/quiz questions, and it's often difficult to tell who is abusing the time and effort of SO contibutors for cheating. As you say, there are often clues, eg. unrealistic constraints, but not always. What really rankles is whe the contraint is added after some mark has already supplied an answer using the obvious means, and then gets told 'Oh - I forgot, I cannot use [library call]'. 'forgot', right.. :( May 1, 2018 at 12:37
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    a bit related: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/295420/… which shows we're not the only party that try to fight this.
    – rene
    May 1, 2018 at 12:38
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    @MartinJames I share that same sentiment. The blatant disrespect from incoming users is a really good demotivator.
    – MonkeyZeus
    May 1, 2018 at 12:49
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    I agree that it's frustrating to have a smug user reveal their cheating after an answer has been provided. However, I think calling the blog post "ill-informed" probably harms your point here - I suspect the author(s) of the post were extremely well informed with data about out-group experiences from real users on Stack Overflow.
    – halfer
    May 1, 2018 at 13:02
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    Community already discourages such questions (and answers to them) by downvoting, when it's relatively obvious. But when it's not - there is nothing you can do with that. I don't think you should even care, because who is he cheating? Himself. Who gets most damage because of that? Himself.
    – Evk
    May 1, 2018 at 13:14
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    @Evk true, but today, who gets most damaged? The mark who answered - their time is wasted and then they get insulted with '17 thanks guys'. MonkeyZeus etc then may not bother to answer another question, ever, having been treated in such a cavalier fashion:( May 1, 2018 at 13:31
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    @halfer Just because the out-group is likely to ask questions which do not meet quality standards does not mean that the standards should be lowered. I've had my own fair share of questions which were ill-received by the community. Infantile questions are not well received by this community for a reason.
    – MonkeyZeus
    May 1, 2018 at 13:54
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    Not sure what the solution is, but I do know it is slightly discouraging when someone references homework in their question, and you being making comments to push them in the right direction, so as to not just give them the answer, and then someone just posts the solution.
    – Taplar
    May 1, 2018 at 14:00
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    Hi @MonkeyZeus: I think you might be conflating two themes inadvertently. The smug user's group identity is not known - all we know is they are a cheat, and you're quite right to be irritated by them. I am not in favour of lowering standards.
    – halfer
    May 1, 2018 at 14:02
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    I don't think the latter theme (the blog post) needs to be "given way to". Most people's responses to it are a mixture of misunderstanding and over-reaction, but moreover, I don't think it will change the issue at hand, which is that detecting clever cheats before helping them is always going to be hard. I wonder, to make this productive, do you have any suggestions as to what should happen in the cited case? For example, should a clear admission of cheating be a flaggable offence, with perhaps a week's timeout?
    – halfer
    May 1, 2018 at 14:26
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    (In other words, the blog post isn't that relevant here, especially since it has not set any policy change in motion. We can probably be confident that your cheatin' blighter does not read the Stack Overflow blog :-p).
    – halfer
    May 1, 2018 at 14:29
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    I hope it's safe to assume the 17 is a percentage May 1, 2018 at 14:39
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    @PietroSperoni: well part of that is certainly true. But if the next generation is taught to only search for existing answers, then software development will grind to a halt. (...We might already have passed that point, by the way. But that's another discussion.)
    – Jongware
    May 1, 2018 at 21:49

6 Answers 6

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This user is not abusing Stack Overflow. Well-written, on topic questions get answers (usually/hopefully, YMMV). These questions, and their answers, are helpful for others with the same, or a similar question.

The user is abusing his teachers, the school's rating system, and the entire education system in general. He's also fooling himself if he thinks this is something that will go by unnoticed in the long term. He has a good grade for something he does not master in practice. In whatever IT job he lands, he might soon be replaced by someone with the same grade, but who happened to not have resorted to cheating.

None of these reasons make the question unsuitable for Stack Overflow.

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    I agree with this. I don't think we should get ourselves up in arms to the degree that we try to determine the name of the cheater, find their educational institution, register a complaint, get them expelled/suspended etc. I've often added a calm and non-irritated comment about the OP cheating themselves and then leave it at that - there is nothing we can do about it if someone wants to cheat their way through their classes.
    – halfer
    May 1, 2018 at 13:05
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    Our ignorance does not equate to innocence. Yes, it was an intriguing question...but only because a teacher technically asked it.
    – MonkeyZeus
    May 1, 2018 at 14:01
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    @MonkeyZeus - tbh the question did read like a homework question; think that's why I only put suggestions in rather than answer it ... then again, I very rarely answer anything these days since there are so very few original questions.
    – CD001
    May 1, 2018 at 14:43
  • @CD001 I provided an answer because to me it felt like OP was simply messing around or was trying to learn something and broaden their cognitive skills. They made what seemed to be a valiant effort but they quickly peed in their own Cheerios when they exposed that this was for an exam. Had it been a homework question, I would have still answered because they made a solid attempt.
    – MonkeyZeus
    May 1, 2018 at 14:59
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    @MonkeyZeus - nothing wrong with answering a homework question, I'm just not that helpful ;) ... youth of today, want the answers handing to them, I dunno, in my day we had to make to with Lycos or AltaVista and a 56k dial-up connection
    – CD001
    May 1, 2018 at 15:03
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    @CD001 Alta Vista? You were lucky... I remember sitting on the floor of my company library with four or five DEC Ultrix manuals in massive ring binders (yes printed on paper) scattered around me trying to glean the elusive information as to why the customer's system was broken.
    – JeremyP
    May 1, 2018 at 16:11
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    @JeremyP: you had electricity provided for you? You were lucky. When I were a lad, me dad made me generate the electricity I needed on an exercise bike with a dynamo.
    – halfer
    May 1, 2018 at 17:01
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    It can be both a well written question with the potential to help others and unabashed cheating at the same time. I do not agree with simply saying because the question format adheres to protocol, then it is okay--more so when the question was obviously used to violate the policies of a university.
    – Dodge
    May 1, 2018 at 19:06
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    "He's also fooling himself if he thinks this is something that will go by unnoticed in the long term" I disagree. As someone who has to mentor college hires who seem to fit this "devote the lowest possible effort to get by" mold, and has seen senior engineers who have used the same strategy for years, I think users like this will get away with it - and profit from it. I don't know what I'd prefer to see happen in these instances, but wishful thinking about industrywide karma is not it. Perhaps this is a problem for university admissions standards, but i don't enjoy SO being enablers of it.
    – Knetic
    May 1, 2018 at 19:29
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    An electronic computer, @halfer? Luxury. In my day we had to crank the Analytical Engine by hand, but we were happy! May 1, 2018 at 19:37
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    @PeterCordes Analytical Engine? Luxury! In my day, we had to walk 20 miles a day to fetch the timeshared beads for our abacus, but we were happy! May 1, 2018 at 20:10
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    @W.Dodge: I sucks that people are cheating this way, but there's nothing we can reasonably do about it. They're not actually harming SO, other than making users here feel dirty for helping cheaters. Someone should do something about it, but that someone isn't us (unless there's a way that SO can help educational institutions catch cheaters, e.g. with a flag for cases like "my exam is already over" where a user admits cheating, we can flag it for investigation by schools that care.) May 1, 2018 at 22:08
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    @W.Dodge: Stack Overflow has problems enough enforcing their own rules (see – in case you missed it – this week's majority of Meta posts...). They cannot be held responsible for not enforcing the rules of any and all institutions that an asker comes from. (That is a frequently returning question on Meta, actually.)
    – Jongware
    May 1, 2018 at 22:17
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    @usr2564301: You’re right and I agree but it’s worth recognizing the complexity of the issue while devising a solution. And really, using SO to answer coding questions should be encouraged at universities. Perhaps instructors themselves could require explanations of code from students rather than simple coding solutions.
    – Dodge
    May 1, 2018 at 23:36
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    @MartinJames - "Analytical Engine? Luxury! In my day, we had to walk 20 miles a day to fetch the timeshared beads for our abacus, but we were happy!" - I remember that. An infinite loop was hell in those days :-)
    – Stephen C
    May 2, 2018 at 2:14
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A long time ago I posted a college homework question to Stack Overflow, but thankfully I wrote it in a manner that wasn't cheating. I wasn't asking for the answer, but for clarification on instructions, and what I did wrong.

The next day in class, my professor cited my question as a good way to get help, albeit he made sure to mention that the wording of such questions needs to be careful to avoid breaking the schools honor code.

The point here: professors aren't stupid. They're on here too, often looking. They have the exact keywords to search, and the same with pre-disposed code. As long as the question asked helps the user learn and is well asked, it's all good. If it's not... well, they'll either get caught or they won't learn and won't pass.

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    I like this anecdote and I am sure that good professors/teachers recognize this issue as well but the broader issue is that the perpetuation of this behavior can quickly become a cultural norm among students which could overwhelm anti-cheat efforts. If students see other students successfully abusing SO's lightning fast response times then that creates a generational dependency which will eventually enter the workforce and become the norm. I for one do not wish to encounter a colleague that only knows how to use Google/Stackoverflow.
    – MonkeyZeus
    May 1, 2018 at 15:27
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    Also, this is relevant. i.stack.imgur.com/Ce7um.png
    – MonkeyZeus
    May 1, 2018 at 15:36
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    One day clever professors or graduate students will assign really hard questions with the intent of gaming the SO system to get reputation by answering questions from their students - and in doing so, provide us with more high quality content.
    – jwrush
    May 1, 2018 at 15:48
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    @jwrush it's the long con May 1, 2018 at 15:56
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    @jwrush Kind of like this? May 1, 2018 at 21:57
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    @JohnMontgomery: Yes that. The mouseover text addresses the recent blog-meta controversy nicely too.
    – Ben Voigt
    May 2, 2018 at 2:05
  • Well, some professors (or maybe just instructors/secondary-school teachers/etc.) are stupid. But I'm not nearly as bothered by the ones who don't know how to find SO cheaters among their students as the ones who are just teaching their students blatantly wrong information. (We had 3 Python questions a few weeks ago that did weird things like for key in list(d.keys()): because apparently some teacher told his class that "for loops only work on lists" and graded them down for perfectly correct—and simpler, more idiomatic, and efficient—code on the previous assignment.)
    – abarnert
    May 3, 2018 at 3:05
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The reverse of the problem happens, too.

We've had frustrated students write to us in the past seeking help in persuading professors that they didn't get the answer from Stack Overflow. If one clever programmer can think of it, so can 30 more, and then when institutions try to do their diligence by searching, false positives turn up more than you'd think.

You normally don't see people brag about cheating, and we certainly have no obligation to continue hosting their boastful comments, but they didn't technically break any of our rules.

When we deprecated the homework tag we asserted that assignments with odd requirements weren't really any different than assignments with odd requirements that folks get at work every day, the only difference is in one case you're paying to do them, and in the other, you get paid for it.

We recommend just answering questions that grab your interest, and don't worry so much about intent. That's kind of what you do when you release code under a free software license with it - you're letting people use it to save the world or blow up others.

The other thing that helps is spending time talking to students and educators if you're ever in a position to do that, and suggest that Stack Overflow and similar sites just be treated kind of like how calculators are in math. Once you've proven some mastery of concepts, it's better to use your time less on rote calculation and more on exploring theory.

But people sometimes cheat, and there's little to do about that. But if they leave a lasting helpful artifact in the wake, well? :)

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    If the rules don't have anything to say about flagrant disregard for integrity, then maybe the problem is the rules.
    – jpmc26
    May 1, 2018 at 19:25
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    @jpmc26 I somewhat agree. However, the best intentions behind enforcing integrity with thoughtful rules can sometimes have unintended side-effects that make enforcement difficult, or even worse than the original problem. It'd be interesting to walk through a proposal of a rule that would address this to see if we could find any such unintended consequences. (Is my political leaning showing? Or my Functional Programming leaning showing here?) May 1, 2018 at 19:31
  • @jpmc26 Heh, punish the brashness? I could see that. How? May 1, 2018 at 19:35
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    Do I detect in here a tacit company approval to use code found on SO to blow up other planets?!
    – TylerH
    May 1, 2018 at 20:38
  • @TimPost -- can you take a peek at meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/386042/… Jun 13, 2019 at 16:02
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This is why, if I've got the time, I prefer to answer questions in an explanatory fashion instead of with code. "Take a look at NeatWidget—it has a set of frobulate() methods which can help you connect Cog objects to Sprockets." Nudge them in the right direction, get them thinking a bit.

Sometimes this is pretty effective at weeding out the cheaters, because it tends to piss them off. If I get a downvote and a profanity-laced comment demanding that I just write their code for them, then I know not to help that user anymore.

Of course, sometimes it backfires, when someone else just shows up, writes their code for them, and then naturally gets the "accepted" flag. But c'est la vie.

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    My computer segfaults when I run forbulate() while reticulating splines. May 1, 2018 at 19:32
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    @BlackVegetable It's frobulate(), not forbulate(). forbulate() is for quicikly erasing the hard drive and all backups. Do try to read more carefully next time. May 1, 2018 at 19:33
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    @BlackVegetable was just re-enacting the actual interaction between one of these comments and OP's inability to copy+paste since in their mind "it's not plagiarism if I typed out each individual character".
    – MonkeyZeus
    May 1, 2018 at 19:35
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    Reminds me of a post by Matt Might: You may not use code you found on the web, even if modified. You may not use code you found on the web, even if it's GPL'd. Do not turn in code with a matching md5sum for your friend's assignment. You can't simply change comments and spacing. I can tokenize your input to eliminate these differences. You can't just change variable names. I'm going to diff a token stream of your assignment against others. You can't just move definitions around. Same reason as before. ... matt.might.net/teaching/compilers/spring-2015 May 1, 2018 at 19:37
  • @BlackVegetable ::thumbsup:: May 1, 2018 at 19:48
  • @MonkeyZeus Yes, I'm obviously playing around a bit here too ;-) May 1, 2018 at 19:48
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    @CharlesSrstka ditto. None of us are getting out alive, might as well have some fun while we're here...
    – MonkeyZeus
    May 1, 2018 at 19:50
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    if someone gets rep for answering a blatantly off-topic/help vampire question, just call us at SOCVR, we'll take care of the question deletion if needed/justified. May 1, 2018 at 19:54
  • @Jean-FrançoisFabre The problem for me is that even when I'm pretty sure it's a cheater, it's hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it's not just a lazy programmer who can't be bothered to read the documentation I sent him to, so I tend to just answer "Can't you just write the code?!!" with "No." and move on. May 1, 2018 at 19:58
  • sometimes, if the problem is an interesting one, I don't mind writing a few lines of code. Depends. May 1, 2018 at 20:01
  • @Jean-FrançoisFabre Oh, definitely, and I've certainly written enough answers with code in them. It's when the question asked is fairly simple or assignment-ey and easily answered via a link to documentation or some such that I prefer to get more educational. May 1, 2018 at 20:03
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We see what we call "homework dump" questions, more on sunday evenings.

Those usually start by:

Write a function which takes 2 parameters and which ...

Those come without attempt, or just with the template code to fill in (not an attempt!), so are easily spotted as off-topic/too broad, downvoted & closed in minutes.

The questions where user tried, and finally decided to ask, providing his/her research/attempt as a proof of goodwill and also to help getting more accurate answers are upvoted and get an answer, homework or not.

Whether it is homework or not doesn't matter. If it's real work, you could be helping a concurrent company than your own. Is that a problem? if so, don't answer questions again.

Here OP posted his attempt at least. That doesn't seem to make good question given the downvotes, in this particular case.

Note that students have a huge database of already answered questions at their disposal on SO, so they usually don't need to ask their question unless they don't have a clue and ask a very bad/focused on the exam question, and in that case, back to square one: downvotes+close.

Also, teachers usually detect when someone stupidly copied a too complex answer that the student would be unable to explain if questionned. Blindly copying an answer that works (even if you didn't ask the question) is risky!

The user commenting about "too late, exam is over" shouldn't do that but he's probably not aware of our site rules, it's just a clumsy way of saying "thanks".

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    "Note that he got a good mark without the answer." Other answers were posted much earlier, probably in time to be used.
    – jpmc26
    May 1, 2018 at 19:29
  • yes just read the full answers. Pointless part edited out May 1, 2018 at 19:32
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SO has no responsibility or need to stop this. For the long term future value of SO's collection of good answers to useful questions, it doesn't matter what the source of the question was.

The cheating isn't harming SO directly, other than making users feel bad. The cheaters are cheating against their school / marking system.

But many SO users would like to see cheaters caught and punished by their school for cheating. Helping someone cheat without realizing it until after the fact makes me feel dirty.

To help educators catch cheaters, SO could provide tools for users to flag suspected cheating. Probably through the same menu as for mod flags, but with a totally different purpose: these reports would go into a list that educators could look through for stuff they'd recently assigned as homework.

To get access to this collection of suspected-cheating reports, educators would have to get in touch with SO through some mechanism. IDK what kind of standard we need to set here; maybe require some kind of evidence of being an educator at a known university / school.

The possible-cheating flag database doesn't even have to be private, except maybe if it keeps deleted posts viewable. (But 10k rep users can do that anyway.) If it was totally public, users could see if they were getting reported. But just doing their homework would probably be easier than carefully monitoring cheat reports to see if they were treading on thin ice. IDK, though; we are talking about the cheaters who post good questions, not the ones too lazy / clueless to post an MCVE of an attempt.


I'm not proposing that SO take any responsibility for cheating, just provide tools to make it easier for users to help educators catch cheaters if users are so inclined.

We wouldn't want the results of such user actions to be easily visible to the users who posted the questions or comments getting reported, otherwise they'd have a clue they were in danger before being busted.


Obviously there must be no direct penalties for someone getting flagged as a potential cheater. It's up to educators to read the question and look at the homework students actually submitted and decide how much help came from SO, and whether they want to allow that. My idea is just to help educators find cases that need to be looked at.

Maybe this is a silly idea and educators should just keep searching SO the way many do now; you can't depend on SO users flagging every suspected homework question because some have no evidence of it.

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