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...and as an addition to the title, what happens to them after a helpful flag.

So, there's a user who constantly downvotes answers on questions he doesn't like. May they be too easy, or bad worded, or whatever. Just not in his loot schematic.

My personal experience with him was a question he thought was a duplicate, but he later had to admit that it wasn't. He doesn't have a gold badge (good that we only accept dupehammers from people with certain reputation in the field) in javascript, which luckily prevented him from closing the question; Additionally, the question didn't have a single close vote; so no close vote from him either.

I have noticed this kind of behaviour from him for at least 5 times the last month. The user has a reputation of 11k.

Today he did it again, and after 3 people commenting critically (the comments had upvotes ranging from 2-5) towards the downvote, he still was arguing he is correct. Even links to meta discussions saying the consensus thinks his behaviour is unwanted couldn't help) I then flagged his comment on his downvote with a custom flag (all comments were deleted by a moderator after the flag):

He permanently downvotes correct answers if he thinks the question is bad/too easy. I had it myself with him, and I noticed this behaviour quite some times from him yet. Maybe someone can reach out..

The flag was marked as helpful.

My question is - what will a moderator do about it, and how can we prevent such a behaviour in the future without having to involve moderators?

Sidenote:

I understand that everybody can vote however he wants. With "rules" I don't mean those written, but those like "if I show you a picture on my iPhone, you don't swipe".

However, downvoting correct answers is against SO's goal, of providing helpful information for information-seekers.

17
  • you can't deal with this kind of problem without getting moderators involved. just remember.... downvoting correct answers isn't against the rules. Being wrong isn't against the rules either. however, he and you both need to abide by the be nice policy
    – Kevin B
    Jun 6, 2017 at 22:22
  • I think so too @KevinB. So what are they going to do about it?
    – baao
    Jun 6, 2017 at 22:23
  • I added that in the Sidenote @KevinB
    – baao
    Jun 6, 2017 at 22:29
  • 7
    I don't see anything wrong with downvoting correct answers if they deserve a downvote. "correctness" isn't the only attribute of an answer that votes are for.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 6, 2017 at 22:32
  • Oh sorry, I wasn't clear enough @KevinB. Not only correct, but helpful for future readers...
    – baao
    Jun 6, 2017 at 22:38
  • 11
    Yes, users getting bored with SO can be quite a drag. Classic symptom is reached an internal milestone, like getting 10K rep, usually on trite questions. It doesn't get better after that, not at all. Best thing to do is flag a particularly onerous comment for moderator attention and say something like "Seems this user is not enjoying his time at SO much lately, anything you can do about it?" They are smooth about it when they contact the user privately. Jun 6, 2017 at 22:41
  • Right@HansPassant. However, I would like to avoid having to waste a moderator's time with something as trivial as this.
    – baao
    Jun 6, 2017 at 22:43
  • 8
    it is not trivial, you wouldn't have started a meta question about it. It is a real problem, it can be fixed. Jun 6, 2017 at 22:45
  • Good point @HansPassant
    – baao
    Jun 6, 2017 at 22:47
  • 7
    right... but "helpful to future visitors" is subjective. you can't punish a user for disagreeing.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 6, 2017 at 23:06
  • I think i know what user you were referring to, and i agree with their assessment of the question/answer.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 6, 2017 at 23:11
  • which letter does his name start with @KevinB ? :-)
    – baao
    Jun 6, 2017 at 23:13
  • R, though that could probably refer to two users
    – Kevin B
    Jun 6, 2017 at 23:14
  • 3
    I'm on the fence about the whole... downvote answers to bad questions. this question in particular is unclear, doesn't provide any code whatsoever, and would be a duplicate if it wasn't unclear. I am very against answers being provided to obvious duplicates, of which this would be if code were provided.
    – Kevin B
    Jun 6, 2017 at 23:16
  • 4
    A basic rule is that anyone can down vote for any reason they feel like. You seem to be ignoring this basic rule. So then what are we going to do about you? :)
    – JK.
    Jun 7, 2017 at 3:52

5 Answers 5

2

I'd looked into making the vote scripts a little smarter when a string of votes in either direction on multiple answers to a question created a noticeable level of dissonance. Or, more explicitly, something along the lines of the behavior you described.

It started to look interesting but:

  • You need the opposite of 'penalizing' votes in order for that to work. A lot of these tend to have 0/+1 scored answers which is a start but not the best source.
  • Not quite sure what we'd do differently other than do a better job of flagging these, which isn't really all that helpful as there's really no clear action to take most times.

Now, possibly taking an indication that an angry seagull just flew over a question and peppered everything with punitive votes in conjunction with any comment flags and giving those flags more priority (perhaps even a higher classification) doesn't seem like a horrible idea here, but need to run some numbers to see what kind of efficacy we'd get beyond what we're doing now with folks just keeping an eye out.

There's also the possibility of showing some 'just in time' guidance if multiple people do this, e.g. "please consider an edit or close vote instead" if we detect it, something else to look at.

I've always been annoyed when I see this happen because it is pretty community hostile behavior, it's just dealing with it in a way that actually educates folks and changes their outlook a bit that's hard.

I'm open to ideas if you have some, comment away!

1
  • 1
    I think the JIT guidance would be useful anyway; at a minimum, we might be able to get questions which need to be closed closed faster as opposed to just dogpiling downvotes on a question which has serious (but possibly recoverable) deficiencies.
    – Makoto
    Jun 7, 2017 at 16:06
18

So I handled your flag, and can comment on my approach to this.

I've not exactly shied away from stating my opinion that people shouldn't berate answerers of questions they don't like or that you should vote based on the quality of the answer, not the question. That said, people are free to vote how they want, and there's little that moderators can (or should) see and do about individual votes. It's only in cases of clearly coordinated targeted votes between people that we step in.

So there's little I can do to even verify that this person downvotes good answers. That only leaves the comments they might be giving on answers like this. If a person is particularly abusive or rude in these comments towards people answering, then I will remove those comments and most likely have a conversation with them about this.

I looked through this person's recent history and saw no other comments like this over the last month, and the comments they had left on other answers all seemed civil. You and others made pretty clear points in your responses to their one comment about how they voted, so I think they got the idea about how you all felt.

I saw no need to take further action, so I marked your flag as helpful and moved on. If you see them being rude to others in their comments, flag them and we'll act on that. Otherwise, I'm not sure there's much more for moderators to do here.

7

I don't think a lot can be done against a user who votes in bad faith (or just in a way we don't like), as long as they don't target specific other users. Not even by moderators.

I guess the general narrative for this is that single "bad" downvotes will typically be evened out by upvotes if the answer is any good, and that the harm this individual can do is very limited.

I tend to agree.

3
  • that single "bad" downvotes will typically be evened out by upvotes if the answer is any good agree with that 100%!
    – baao
    Jun 6, 2017 at 22:36
  • "single "bad" downvotes will typically be evened out by upvotes if the answer is any good" -- or, more simply, "single downvotes will typically be evened out by upvotes". Jun 7, 2017 at 5:21
  • But hopefully we're not upvoting crap answers just to "even out the votes" as we've seen in the past... Jun 7, 2017 at 13:44
5

There are two issues here: votes and comments.

Votes are important, but primarily so in aggregate; even the most active voters' votes are just a drop in the bucket when considering the vast numbers of votes cast on Stack Overflow every day. Pekka hits on this in his answer:

I guess the general narrative for this is that single "bad" downvotes will typically be evened out by upvotes if the answer is any good, and that the harm this individual can do is very limited.

Comments, OTOH, can really mess things up: start fights, drive folks away, sit around for years discouraging passers-by... If you see someone leaving rude / stupid / worthless comments, flag 'em - the mods are generally more'n happy to get rid of 'em, and a sufficiently large number of problematic comments will tend to motivate a mod to take the commenter aside & ask 'em if it's really worth their time to be here anymore.

Bit of advice: if you do have to get into it with someone, don't get angry or personal - just state the facts necessary to correct whatever misinformation you see. Be dry. Friendly, but dry. Canada Dry.

3
  • I'm living in France, I hope we're at least as friendly as the canadians - it's the same language, right? :-) Thanks for your answer, you got a good point again!
    – baao
    Jun 6, 2017 at 23:28
  • 1
    @baao funny how normally all ppl from France bash on our French, saying it's not correct (heck, when I visted Paris, I was often served in English because of my accent... when in fact English is my second language), but you go the complete other way and accept it as your own language. I'd say you are easily as friendly as us already ;). Anyway sorry for the off-topic, just found the different take on French to be refreshing :p
    – Patrice
    Jun 7, 2017 at 0:53
  • 1
    @Patrice I'm actually German, I only live in France. I'm served in English all the time because my French (and accent) most probably is much worse than yours. :D
    – baao
    Jun 7, 2017 at 0:56
5

...how can we prevent such a behaviour in the future without having to involve moderators?

You can't.

There is no additional mechanism for dealing with voting behavior and it is unlikely that there was some other phrase or post that was going to change their mind.

Users shouldn't be trying to moderate comments by leaving more comments. That just creates noise (and I doubt the original poster wanted all of those notifications).

Users also shouldn't be telling each other how to vote on posts. It isn't appropriate for a question to ask users not to down vote, it isn't appropriate for a user to harass the question asker to accept their answer, and it isn't appropriate to demand others vote the same way you did.

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