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Consider this question. Now, it isn't exactly the best of questions, but multiple people (including myself) were kind enough to answer, and explain to the OP how their code works1. Due to this, however, I noticed something: In the time since the question was posted, every single answer has been downvoted, including the correct ones.

In short, it appears that we still have a problem of people downvoting answers based on the question's quality, instead of the answers' quality. Considering that this is implied to be a violation of site policy2, and that it's very clearly an attempt to exploit a loophole in the Roomba3, should anyone who is found to do this be reprimanded?

Related:

[Note that this question is not about whether it's okay to do so, which it very clearly is NOT. Rather, it is solely about whether action should be taken against people who do so, which is a topic that related questions don't appear to cover.]
[Note that the answers to the example question provided may or may not actually be a victim of this behaviour; I lack the necessary tools to determine whether it is or isn't the case (and, as pointed out in the comments, even with tools there would still be uncertainty as to the motive behind the voting, as all they would provide is circumstantial evidence), but find the presence of exactly one downvote on each answer (as of the time I posted this) suspicious.]


1: Personally, I answered because the comments in the OP's code indicate that they were trying to figure out how it works, and on the right track, but just needed a bit of help wrapping their head around it. The code itself is an entirely valid function (assuming the ever-present-among-newbies using namespace std; is in effect), of the sort that would be present in a tutorial on how to use pointers; it was likely the answer to a homework question, but they didn't understand how it worked. Basically, I answered because they indicated that they actually wanted to understand the code, and not be just one of the help vampires that copy-pastes code beyond their comprehending.
2: The Reversal badge is awarded for supplying good answers to bad questions, implying that site policy supports answering bad questions, as long as the answer is well thought out. This is likely intended to ensure that even bad questions have a duplicate source, but I can't say for certain. [It doesn't always work out this way, however, and there have been mentions of correct-but-useless answers getting the badge.] Similarly, this blog post suggests that good answers are the site's most useful resource, which contradicts the "downvote all answers on bad questions, whether they're good or bad" mentality.
3: To my knowledge, the Roomba simply checks whether the question and answers are all downvoted to decide whether to delete the question, and doesn't take any other data into consideration, not even things such as whether all answers were downvoted by the same user, or whether they were downvoted at roughly the same time. This leaves it vulnerable to exploitation by robo-downvoters.

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    How would find out what people base their votes on?
    – Pekka
    May 11, 2017 at 22:56
  • @Pekka웃 I can't; while tools would be able to provide circumstantial evidence (namely, if all downvotes are by the same person, and/or came within seconds of each other, it may indicate that something is up), they wouldn't be able to explicitly prove this to be the case. I merely find the presence of exactly one downvote on each answer to be suspicious. May 11, 2017 at 23:00
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    @yellowantphil If they upvote all bad posts on a single question, just because the question itself is good, then perhaps. If people decide that users who downvote answers based on the question's quality should be reprimanded, then the obvious corollary question would be whether people who upvote answers based on the question's quality should be reprimanded as well. May 11, 2017 at 23:01
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    I'd file this under "it's a bummer an attempt at helping someone with a maybe basic, but not completely idiotic/lazy question got downvoted" and move on. There is no solution to this that wouldn't cripple the system in some way and have awful unintended consequences. Catching the occasional downvote is the price one pays when answering borderline/unpopular questions; as long as you're sure the questions are really worth it, it's arguably a price worth paying and an upstanding stance to take.
    – Pekka
    May 11, 2017 at 23:05
  • @Pekka웃 The problem isn't with voting on this question's answers in particular (I merely used it because it's the question that prompted this concern), but that generally speaking, downvoting good answers if the question itself is bad has the potential to get the answers swallowed by the Roomba, if enough people do it. I don't want that to happen. May 11, 2017 at 23:17
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    To follow up on @yellowantphil's question, I frankly don't care all that much about discouraging or disheartening those who answer lousy questions. I can see the arguments for why downvoting answers to questions that are merely downvote-worthy is not really the best idea, but I just don't think it's worth making a big deal about at this point. But, of course, upvotes to bad posts happen a lot, and are honestly much more of a threat, being a similar distortion of the roomba and inflating rep, which in turns distorts the entire basis of community moderation. May 11, 2017 at 23:27
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    Of course, upvoting bad posts, whether to balance out their score or for other reasons, is widely condemned, but nothing else is being done about it. But I'm not even sure we need to match this — that is, focus on publicizing condemnation of downvoting answers to downvoted questions — when we've got so many far more important voting quality problems to work on. May 11, 2017 at 23:30
  • So, you argue that the "Reversal" Badge is an indicator for encouraging answers even on lower quality question, yet the help center says something else: stackoverflow.com/help/how-to-answer ("Answer well-asked questions").
    – Tom
    May 11, 2017 at 23:44
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    'Now, it isn't exactly the best of questions' well, that's one way of putting it. It's obviously an academic exercise, now cleanly completed by SO homework drones:( May 12, 2017 at 0:25
  • I mean... said users are already charged some rep for doing so. What else would you want done?
    – Kevin B
    May 12, 2017 at 15:20
  • @ThingyWotsit From the look of it, he already had the answer to his homework question, but just didn't know why it was the answer. His desire to understand that is why I answered, personally. May 12, 2017 at 15:58
  • @NathanTuggy Think the corollary question of "Should people who upvote answers based on the question's quality be reprimanded?" should be asked, then? May 12, 2017 at 15:59
  • @Tom It says not to answer questions which: 1) "are unclear or lacking specific details that can uniquely identify the problem", 2) "solicit opinions rather than facts", 3) "have already been asked and answered many times before", 4) "require too much guidance for you to answer in full, or request answers to multiple questions", or 5) "are not about programming as defined in the help center". Not every bad question fits in these categories. May 12, 2017 at 16:02
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    Then answer the questions which aren't covered in that paragraph and see what happens.
    – Tom
    May 12, 2017 at 21:46

1 Answer 1

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should anyone who is found to do this be reprimanded?

And what sort of "reprimand" would you suggest? There's no automatic system that could determine whether those downvotes were actually merited. So this would be (yet another) thing moderators would have to deal with.

This is not a problem worth solving. After all, the very example you provided was closed, which is a strong indicator that it shouldn't have been answered at all.

The Reversal badge is awarded for supplying good answers to bad questions, implying that site policy supports answering bad questions, as long as the answer is well thought out. This is likely intended to ensure that even bad questions have a duplicate source, but I can't say for certain. [It doesn't always work out this way, however, and there have been mentions of correct-but-useless answers getting the badge.] Similarly, this blog post suggests that good answers are the site's most useful resource, which contradicts the "downvote all answers on bad questions, whether they're good or bad" mentality.

That's like saying that the Tumbleweed badge implies that we want people to ask questions that don't get noticed. Reversal is a badge that notes that something unusual has happened; it is not intended to be an encouragement of behavior.

And you'll note that it has only been awarded 273 times. It is one of the rarest gold badges.

To my knowledge, the Roomba simply checks whether the question and answers are all downvoted to decide whether to delete the question, and doesn't take any other data into consideration, not even things such as whether all answers were downvoted by the same user, or whether they were downvoted at roughly the same time. This leaves it vulnerable to exploitation by robo-downvoters.

Nonsense. If you look at the actual answers to the Is it okay to downvote answers to bad questions?, you'll see that the second answer (which is highly upvoted) explains that some people.

People who downvote in the manner you suggest are merely trying to punish users in some small way for doing what they feel is detrimental to the site: answering bad questions, thus encouraging the asking of more bad questions. Whether you agree with that reasoning or not, it has nothing to do with gaming the Roomba.

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    speaking of Reversal badge, 100+ upvotes to idea for it to go away suggest that it indeed tends to encourage slippery attitude among answerers
    – gnat
    May 12, 2017 at 10:06
  • You make some good points, but since I joined the site, I have seen one or two comments on meta about people downvoting answers to bad questions specifically so they fall beneath the Roomba threshold. That's why I suspect triggering the Roomba to be the underlying motive to anyone who wants to "punish" people for answering bad questions, regardless of whether their answer itself is good. May 12, 2017 at 16:05
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    @JustinTime So because one or two comments were made on it then obviously every downvote on every bad question is insidiously attempting to trigger the roomba on a bad question, and couldn't possibly because the answer is just bad, or not useful.
    – Servy
    May 12, 2017 at 16:08
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    @Servy How did you get "good question with bad answer" out of "bad question with good answer"? May 12, 2017 at 16:09
  • @JustinTime Sorry, I meant to say bad question both times, not just the first.
    – Servy
    May 12, 2017 at 16:11
  • @Servy That makes a bit more sense, but I still don't see how you got "bad answer" out of it. Unless you're one of the people that thinks that any answer on a bad question is automatically bad itself, regardless of the answer's quality. May 12, 2017 at 16:12
  • Either way, these attempts to punish users for actually answering bad questions expressly violates site policy regarding answers vs. questions, as described in this blog post; specifically, the site policy is that obtaining good answers is the express purpose of the site, and that people shouldn't be punished for providing good answers. Thus, anyone who judges an answer solely on the question's quality is violating this policy, as they show that they don't care how good or bad the answer is, they just want it gone. May 12, 2017 at 16:13
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    @JustinTime The overwhelming majority of answers to bad questions are going to be bad. That's what makes questions bad. Bad questions are defined as questions that either cannot be answered with a quality answers, or questions that overwhelmingly tend to attract bad answers. As such, for basically every bad question you see, the answers are almost always going to be bad answers. You should be pretty shocked to see a really great answer to a bad question, so seeing lots of downvotes on answers to bad questions is the expected outcome because those answers are almost certainly bad.
    – Servy
    May 12, 2017 at 16:19
  • @JustinTime You, on the other hand, are making the assumption that the majority of answers to bad questions are good answers, and are thus assuming that all of the downvotes that these answers are attracting are people who didn't even read them and just downvoted them. This is simply a false assumption. The problems with bad questions mean that writing a good answer for it is either impossible, or almost impossible, and so odds are the people that are evaluating them are going to realize that they're bad, because they really are. That's why we don't want bad questions.
    – Servy
    May 12, 2017 at 16:22
  • @Servy So, first you say that "a bad question is bad because its answers are bad" (which completely ignores the question's quality), and then you say that "the answers are bad because the question is bad" (which completely ignores the answer's quality). Either way, you assume that all answers on bad questions are themselves bad, regardless of the answer's quality. May 12, 2017 at 16:22
  • @Servy You also completely misunderstand my intent, and try to put false claims in my mouth. I'm solely concerned with the case where 1) a bad question receives a good answer, and 2) that answer is then downvoted because the question is bad. This is an uncommon case, but I'm ignoring all other cases because they aren't relevant to this discussion. And no, "being an answer to a bad question" doesn't automatically make an answer bad, no matter what you may think; every answer and every question must be judged solely on its own quality, not on the quality of any related posts. May 12, 2017 at 16:23
  • @JustinTime: I think part of the problem is your definition of "good answer". I don't see any good answers on the closed question you referred us to. Oh, those answers aren't necessarily bad, but just because something isn't bad doesn't automatically make it good. Those answers are mediocre or so-so. Furthermore, good answers on bad questions are had to find, since bad questions are less likely to be found via search (the titles are usually terrible and so forth). So whatever good they may be isn't being utilized by anyone besides the OP. May 12, 2017 at 16:26
  • @JustinTime I never said the first thing. I said bad questions are bad because answers to it will be bad; they cannot (or are highly unlikely to be) be good. Thus saying that bad answers can sometimes be a result of problems with the question is entirely consistent with that. If bad questions were consistently creating quality answers they wouldn't be bad questions. Bad questions are defined as being questions where the answers can't, or won't, be good.
    – Servy
    May 12, 2017 at 16:26
  • @JustinTime So you're talking about a situation that basically never happens (because bad questions virtually never attract good answers, and in the very rare instance where they do, they pretty much never have a problem of getting lots of downvotes) and are therefore attempting to implement a change (that is inherently impossible, because you can never know why someone is voting) that is going to actually change nothing at all.
    – Servy
    May 12, 2017 at 16:28
  • @JustinTime Again, you seem to be repeatedly under the assumption that people are voting with answers and not even reading them, or even taking a moment to consider their quality. I see no evidence at all that that's the case. The issue is that the quality of a question directly affects the quality of an answer. There are lots of answer that are bad answers, and the reasons that they're bad are directly related to problems in the question. Downvoting such an answer is still judging the answer based on it quality.
    – Servy
    May 12, 2017 at 16:31

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