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My question is about linking MAC addresses and cookie tracking from a marketing perspective. I've been researching the area and agree that it's considered invasive from a privacy perspective.

So, I'd like to ask how to ask an ethics question that I'd like the technological reasons behind, a) is it unethical, b) technologically how will this be prevented by browser producers and mobile operating systems providers.

(Disclaimer: I build white hat tracking systems for marketers.)

I had a look at the Stack Overflow FAQ and this post (on Meta SE) but it's pure ethics, as stated I'd also like a technical rationale behind the implication of the ethics. I'm not sure whether this fits with the Stack Overflow area as stated:

  • a specific programming problem, or
  • a software algorithm, or
  • software tools commonly used by programmers; and is
  • a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development

Any advice on site choice within the Stack Exchange community would be most appreciated.


Martin James wrote on a different version of this question that was deleted as a duplicate on the advice of more senior members:

where it will be interpreted [on so meta] as 'how can I bypass spam-avoidance tech'.

To be clear, I don't want to bypass spam avoidance or find out how to do so, if I wanted to I would. My question is about being able to demonstrate this to execs technically before they pursue this avenue.

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  • 13
    Philosophy has a Ethics tag. But not sure, if they welcome programmers. Mar 18, 2017 at 18:41
  • 31
    @Rubén Meta Stack Exchange is a site for questions "about the Stack Exchange engine that powers the Stack Exchange network". Programming ethics questions are definitely off-topic there. Mar 18, 2017 at 19:44
  • 4
    How about SoftwareEngineering.SE? That should be the proper place to ask these questions.
    – Mordechai
    Mar 19, 2017 at 4:46
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    @MouseEvent no it would not be a proper place for stuff like that, see What goes on Software Engineering (previously known as Programmers)? A guide for Stack Overflow. Please abstain of recommending sites you're not familiar with
    – gnat
    Mar 19, 2017 at 6:40
  • 2
    It would be up to the SE community, but they seem to have quite a few ethical questions already @gnat. Would the main objection be that such questions are perceived to be (too) subjective? I should imagine that questions about Agile could easily give rise to questions that require judgement, but answers of that nature can still be valuable.
    – halfer
    Mar 19, 2017 at 8:36
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    @halfer yes, too subjective. Did you check meta guidance referred in prior comment?
    – gnat
    Mar 19, 2017 at 8:40
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    @gnat: yes, I did. I am asking for your considered and expanded view, if you are happy to provide it.
    – halfer
    Mar 19, 2017 at 8:44
  • 4
    @halfer well, subjectivity criteria are the same at both sites (as a side note this also means "good subjective" questions are OK at SO, despite a not-so-recent trend to turn it into stupid debugging engine). Wrt ethics, it isn't directly related to SDLC which means besides subjectivity assessment ethics questions would pass additional topicality scrutiny as discussed at their meta: What topics are not “part of the SDLC” but are nevertheless still on topic?
    – gnat
    Mar 19, 2017 at 11:05
  • 2
    The two places that this would be suited for are The Workplace and Philosophy - The Workplace will tell you how to deal with "my boss wants me to do something unethical" while Philosophy might help you understand some ways to explain to your boss why what he wants to do is unethical. Ask here if you think you have a technical way to do a zero knowledge advertising setup with non-reversibility and you need help with a reasonably sized sticky point (though at that point it might be more suited for Computer Science / a published paper) Mar 20, 2017 at 1:29
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    Nobody on Software Engineering knows what that site is about or what's on-topic there. That alone is a perfect reason not to recommend that site to anyone.
    – Lundin
    Mar 20, 2017 at 7:56
  • 3
    If "SoftwareEngineering" is what "Programmers" is being called now, ethics questions should be on topic there. Or if not that, then cast the question in the light of something you've been asked to do at work, where you're looking for advice on how to proceed in a professional (and ethical) way, and it should fly on Workplace.
    – aroth
    Mar 20, 2017 at 8:33
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    @aroth Ethics are not an application of software engineering any more than they are an application of programming.
    – Servy
    Mar 20, 2017 at 13:22
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    @Servy I respectfully disagree. Ethics are a legitimate aspect of software engineering, and the OP gives a good example of where the crossover occurs (when the spec/business requirements conflict with user privacy). If Programmers can entertain a subjective discussion about whether OO languages are "really needed", it can entertain one about where (and how) to draw the line with respect to legitimate ethical concerns specific to programming.
    – aroth
    Mar 20, 2017 at 14:00
  • 2
    @aroth You may consider ethics important, and, basically by definition they are, to literally every aspect of human life. That doesn't mean that they're on topic on SE. Just because you would like to talk about ethics on SE.SE doesn't mean it's on topic there.
    – Servy
    Mar 20, 2017 at 14:01
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    I would like to second @aroth's suggestion that Workplace is sometimes a good site for ethics questions about work. I'm also more inclined than most, I think, to agree with his opinion that software engineering as a field could benefit from more healthy discussions about ethics, and that therefore SE.SE should permit ethics questions; I'm certainly not going to fight that fight, though. Mar 20, 2017 at 23:50

6 Answers 6

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Can I ask programming ethics questions on Stack Overflow?

No. Ethics question are clearly off-topic on StackOverflow.

So, I'd like to ask how to ask an ethics question that I'd like the technological reasons behind, a) is it unethical, b) technologically how will this be prevented by browser producers and mobile operating systems providers.

The ethics part is off-topic in all StackExchange technology oriented sites. You could argue that this is not a good thing, but that is the way it is. And I know from experience that attempts to raise ethical issues in sites like StackOverflow do not go down well.

The technological part might be on-topic if you were to ask it / them as a series of specific programming questions. But I suspect, the technological aspects are more suited to another site. Besides, unless you ask highly specific Questions, they are likely to be interpreted as Too Broad or Request for Recommendation.

I'm not sure whether this fits with the Stack Overflow area as stated:

  • a specific programming problem, or

No. You are actually asking about how web protocols, web applications and web browsers interact ... in the real world. And how this impinges on peoples rights and obligations.

That's not a programming problem. It is only a programming question if you are asking how to implement a particular technology or function in a program, webapp or whatever.

  • a software algorithm, or

No.

  • software tools commonly used by programmers; and is

No.

  • a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development

No.

Any advice on site choice within the Stack Exchange community would be most appreciated.

Pass. I can think of some sites that might be appropriate for some aspects of your questions, but I'm not an expert on the way those sites interpret their rules. You are better off doing your own research; i.e. checkout the sites and carefully read their help center info for yourself.


The other thing to note is that a lot of people on a lot of Stack Exchange sites have a "bee in their bonnet" about issues to do with personal privacy and security. If your questions can be interpreted as asking for technical help or advice in invading people's privacy, expect to be heavily down-voted, etcetera. There is nothing in the written "rules" to say that Questions like this are off-topic, etc. Nonetheless, it is likely to happen. People are people.

Note: this is not an ethical statement. Rather it is a statement about the practicality of asking ethics-related questions on StackOverflow.


One final fact. Have you noticed that there is no [ethics] tag on StackOverflow? Have you wondered why?

Read this: Is Ethics a valid tag for Stack Overflow?

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    It is interesting that a question of ethics has, itself, become a matter of ethics.
    – James
    Mar 20, 2017 at 18:16
  • Not ethics. Merely practicality: it won't work. Analogy: it is not unethical to go into a Candy store and ask if you can buy a Apple computer ("eye candy" :-) ). But it won't work as a strategy for actually buying a computer.
    – Stephen C
    Mar 21, 2017 at 2:46
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    @StephenC I don't get your... analogy and how it is related to the topic at hand :/
    – xDaizu
    Mar 21, 2017 at 8:06
  • My comment is to point out that there are no ethical issues about asking Questions about Ethics on StackOverflow. The analogy is this. StackOverflow is a place to ask questions about programming. A candy store is a place to buy candy. Asking a question about Ethics in StackOverflow is like trying to by a computer in a candy store. It is not inethical. It is simply impractical. That is ... it won't work.
    – Stephen C
    Mar 21, 2017 at 9:48
  • And the joke is ... a joke ... though not very funny.
    – Stephen C
    Mar 21, 2017 at 9:50
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    Perhaps if I'd used the analogy of a duck walking up to a lemonade stand, and asking the man running the stand ... "Got any grapes?". (Sorry ... google it :-) )
    – Stephen C
    Apr 13, 2017 at 14:06
  • I think if you have the knowledge for such a categoric denial, you should know more about the possible alternatives.
    – peterh
    Aug 25, 2019 at 11:59
  • 2
    Why should I? It doesn't follow logically that I would. And I do not accept that I am obliged to find / suggest a suitable StackExchange for people to ask such questions. (That presupposes that such a site exists ...)
    – Stephen C
    Aug 25, 2019 at 13:23
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No.

Even legal questions are off-topic on SO (and they have some chance to be backed by fact). Ethics questions are purely opinion based and can't be objectively answered.

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    where would legal questions be on topic? Mar 18, 2017 at 19:40
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    @ostrichofevil Law
    – user4639281
    Mar 18, 2017 at 20:34
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    @TinyGiant *facepalm* Mar 19, 2017 at 3:38
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    And this is where users find Quora helpful as too much communities are helpful but confusing as well at the same time. Mar 19, 2017 at 9:25
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    Ethics are not opinion based rules. There are ways to objectively figure out if something is ethical, similarly to how one can figure out if a mathematical proof is correct. But that is besides the point, SO currently does not answer such questions, philosophy.SE probably does.
    – nwp
    Mar 19, 2017 at 10:20
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    Not that subjective questions are NOT banned. There's such a thing as "good subjective"/"bad subjective". Questions that require a discussion more than an answer, however, are not a good fit. Mar 19, 2017 at 19:22
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    @nwp It is possible to objectively figure out what is ethical in a given system, deciding which ethical system you want to use is very much subjective.
    – 11684
    Mar 20, 2017 at 8:56
  • @11684: That's objectively not true in general, as there are real-world ethical systems where such judgment is reserved to senior church members. That is to say, some ethical systems are fundamentally subjective.
    – MSalters
    Mar 20, 2017 at 13:24
  • @MSalters Maybe "in some systems" would have been better. I didn't mean to say this applies to all systems. (although in your example, wouldn't it be trivial to objectively determine if your actions conform to the rulings of the clergy? The determining of the rulings would be subjective, but I would say that is the selection/creation phase of the system).
    – 11684
    Mar 20, 2017 at 15:40
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This part of the question:

technologically how will this be prevented by browser producers and mobile operating systems providers.

Seems like it would be a good fit for SecuritySE. You can't ask about the ethical considerations there, but as this relates to how websites store personal information, such as your MAC address, it would fit.

3

philosophy welcomes questions on ethics. It's even mentioned in their help centre

We welcome questions involving subjects like:

• ethics — the nature of the right thing to do

And they have a tag.

You'd be likely to get a better answer if you avoid getting too technical there. Avoid talking too much about MAC addresses and cookies and instead talk about what the consequences would be to users of browsers if browser manufacturers permitted whatever it is you're concerned about. Would advertisers be able to track them more easily for instance.

But if your question is just part a) is this ethical they ought to be able to help. Part b) would I'm sure be off topic there and would likely be best answered on the Security where you'd need to avoid talking about part a)

-58

Ethics is part an parcel of software development, but am certain most developers don't consider it an issue or matter of urgency, ... "PR and management will handle that...."

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    "PR and management will handle that...." is the completely wrong attitude, you should always have access to and make use of an ombudsman or something similar in case you have concerns. Doing something illegal or ethical wrong is always something you as a person and developer should worry about. Just because management wants something it could still be a very bad idea from many viewpoints. But still SO is not the place for it.
    – luk2302
    Mar 19, 2017 at 18:51
  • 1
    @luk2302 Except for the last sentence, isn't that pretty much what this answer is already saying? Mar 20, 2017 at 23:47
-62

If you want to ask something like programming or algorithm i think you should join these community

https://codereview.stackexchange.com

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    Ethics questions are not going to be well received on that site.
    – halfer
    Mar 19, 2017 at 9:58
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    @halfer thanks for your information. Mar 19, 2017 at 10:03
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    Code Review handles only code reviews. Code reviews do not cover ethics, only how to write the code itself better.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Mar 20, 2017 at 12:18

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