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This is a kind of 'pet peeve' of mine with most sites that ask a user to input their education: They only list where someone studied/went to university.

Especially in German speaking countries there is a second way to get into IT without having to teach stuff to yourself: Vocational education. In German it's called 'Ausbildung'. In my case I'm a 'Fachinformatiker für Anwendungsentwicklung'. [be aware the same thing can be studied at a University but with a huge difference when it comes to what is taught and how]

The 'special' thing about an Ausbildung/vocational education is that you usually have two places that you have to list: The school part and the company where you did your vocational education. Usually the company is more important as you spend most time there (first year 3 days, second year 4 days.).

I'd really appreciate it if this could be supported in the education form.

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  • 5
    If we get this, we'll also need a special format for the uk version (sandwich courses), which is again different (the work placement is often a whole year of a 4 year course), and presumably others as each country declares its own equivalent with its own intricacies. It's possible that could get out of hand quite quickly. Or maybe a simple "other details" text box would cover it
    – Clive
    Oct 13, 2016 at 10:41
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    I'm in the same boat, but vocational education is not on the same level as a degree and can't be interpreted that way (Jobs that require a degree still require a degree, and vocational experience doesn't count as "or similar"). You won't get into proper IT with that, only auxillary or junior positions. So listing it under experience is probably enough.
    – Magisch
    Oct 13, 2016 at 10:45
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    @Magisch I don't know where you get that notion from. After five to eight years it doesn't really matter if you studied or went through vocational education and under similiar experience and abilities both hypothetical people are paid the same. That's at least my personal experience. That is unless you talk about positions and projects where you have to know higher algebra. Oct 13, 2016 at 13:12
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    @Clive just had to read up on that. Apparently it's either business or university based? Guess a field where you can enter a company that 'co-educated' one would suffice? I'd also be interested in the arguments that went into the downvoting. Oct 13, 2016 at 13:19
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    @Magisch where did you get that impression and what is "proper IT" to you? Junior positions are for people with little experience... does not matter if it's after Ausbildung or Studium. If you need a degree, you need a degree. If it says "or similar" then why the hell would an Ausbildung not suffice? What else would "or similar" be? To the contrary, Ausbildung is not experience. It's education.
    – nvoigt
    Oct 13, 2016 at 16:45
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    @nvoigt Because a Ausbildung is Not similar to a degree. Its worth nothing in comparison, and positions requesting "a degree or similar" are just as likely to take "worked in tech support as intern for 3 years" instead, which is to say not likely at all. Its more intended for the grunt work with little advancement opportunity, and you certainly won't get more then 30k a year without a degree unless you're exceptionally good, in which case you wasted 3 years for a near meaningless title. Reality is, most companies have pay "caps" without degree.
    – Magisch
    Oct 13, 2016 at 17:12
  • Or similar would be a bachelors or masters in a similar field, or like 5 years working experience with no formal training at all. Like a masters in mathemathics for a dev for instance. I'm doing an ausbildung myself right now and all our teachers make it very clear the way to get above minimum wage after graduating is to get a degree, only.
    – Magisch
    Oct 13, 2016 at 17:17
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    @Magisch Stop listening to those teachers. I'm an Ausbilder. I sit in interviews. Yes, you will not get to work on simulation of experimental nuclear physics. The other 99% of IT are fine and will hire you. You may earn a little less than a full blown masters student that is overpaid for normal work, but you will earn good money. Gain a few years of experience and no one will ask what your degree was. The only job in Germany that require a degree are government jobs, and they are paid like crap. People that start out with a bachelor or FH get the same entry level "junior" jobs you will.
    – nvoigt
    Oct 13, 2016 at 17:56
  • @Magisch That 30K number is wrong. Just look at job ads. It gets too long and too off-topic here, feel free to open a question over at the workplace, I'd like to answer this.
    – nvoigt
    Oct 13, 2016 at 18:39
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    @Magisch holy crap your teachers suck and have no clue about reallife. Companies are desperate for anyone who knows how to write proper code. At the beginning of your job life you'll learn a lot less than someone from university which is fair, IMHO, since you already earned money the previous three years while they, most likely, build up debt. IT is really one of the few fields where, after you gained enough experience and found your 'hole' to dig in, it doesn't matter how you got into the hole in the first place. Oh also I broke the 30ks after two years of employment (across the board). Oct 13, 2016 at 19:34
  • From experience, I can also confirm that employers in Germany will basically hire anything with two hands that can code (degree, vocational training, or even no degree at all) in sharp contrast to the rest of the country's economy, which is obsessed with formal education
    – Pekka
    Oct 15, 2016 at 22:38
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    "I can also confirm that employers in Germany will basically hire anything with two hands that can code" Man, I need to move to Germany! Too bad I remember basically nothing from high school German. Everyone in IT speaks English, right? :-) Oct 16, 2016 at 8:41
  • @CodyGray mostly, yes, it's the human resources people you need to learn German for ;). Hell some companies even hire for project work across the globe. Oct 16, 2016 at 11:05

2 Answers 2

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In a normal German paper CV you would list this as

Ausbildung zum Fachinformatiker/Anwendungsentwicklung bei ACME corp.

So you list the title and the company you did this at. I have not seen anybody list their school.

So I would just put it as education, list the title and the company you did it at. It's not perfect, but it's close enough to not warrant having an extra feature.

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  • that is true in most cases. I forgot that the school part usually only comes up when speaking about how you got into IT Oct 13, 2016 at 19:38
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To relate, for comparison, the French situation: we have what we call "alternance" or "apprentissage", where students go part of the time to their school/university, part of time to a company that hosts them as apprentices. The split is typically with the week, or within two weeks.

At the end of the studies, students are awarded by the school/university exactly the same diploma as other students who enrolled in the more traditional scheme.

Typically, on their CVs, those "alternance" students will put under the same time frame their school in the education section, and the host company under the work experience section.

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