45

UTF-8 all the way through

This is a really old(2008) question that has become canonical for people asking a number of UTF8 questions within (which is relatively common for various reasons). Since 2013, however, there's been a slow burning rollback war on the title (hasn't reached mod flag status yet). Since the title affects the URL (and search engines) it's annoying. The title isn't great, but it does accurately describe the question and it's how it got known. The various edits don't help you find or understand the question any better. It also becomes difficult to find for dupes after a URL change.

I'm not sure what can be done to stop this. Locking it seems extreme but, maybe, that time has come.

25
  • 14
    It's a bit funny for you to complain about it when you contributed to the rollback war yourself.
    – user247702
    Sep 27, 2016 at 13:26
  • 32
    "Since the title affects the URL .." – it seems so but actually it does not.
    – Jongware
    Sep 27, 2016 at 13:31
  • 27
    I totally support locking that question to stop people from fiddling with a resource that has worked superbly well for 8 years. I use its title to find it when I need to link to it every now and then. I’m sure I’m not the only one.
    – Pekka
    Sep 27, 2016 at 14:00
  • 20
    How about if we actually put a title that people actually search for (and find)? ~1000 duplicates is enough.
    – Braiam
    Sep 27, 2016 at 14:48
  • 6
    @Braiam I wish it were that simple. I'd say, in 3/4 of the questions, they don't even know UTF8 is a thing, let alone that that is their problem.
    – Machavity Mod
    Sep 27, 2016 at 15:25
  • 4
    @RadLexus: Well, specifically, SO will redirect to the right URL if you put in the right ID, whatever the title filler. So it does affect the URL, but it doesn't change reachability. Sep 27, 2016 at 16:29
  • 2
    @JerryCoffin we can start here. 39k php questions would be deleted.
    – Braiam
    Sep 28, 2016 at 15:32
  • 2
    @Braiam: like the old joke about 10 dead lawyers, that would be "a good start". Sep 28, 2016 at 15:38
  • 12
    The reason the title is changed so often is because it is a bad title.
    – jwg
    Sep 28, 2016 at 16:02
  • 17
    @PhiterFernandes Editing the title of the question while the community is actively debating whether we want these edits or not is ridiculous. Seriously, people, just leave the damn title alone until we reach a consensus. The solution to a rollback war isn't more rollbacks. Sep 28, 2016 at 19:10
  • 6
    @PhiterFernandes which is not what we want to do... because it means a full lock. We just want people to take their hands of it for now (so not do what you did) and we will be fine.
    – PeeHaa
    Sep 28, 2016 at 19:26
  • 6
    @PhiterFernandes can you please read the answers on this meta question? You are trying to single handedly impose your view on everyone, by first editing to what you thought (without asking for any consent) was an okay title, then now trying to get a mod to do your biding. That's aggressive. Sep 28, 2016 at 20:14
  • 7
    "x all the way through" is a bad title no matter the subject. It is particularly bad as the title of a question. No wonder people try to change it. I'm rather baffled at all the people doing rollbacks back to some flavour of the original. Seems like the question, being popular, has gotten its own fan club, who rollback the title for irrational/sentimental reasons.
    – Lundin
    Sep 29, 2016 at 11:27
  • 5
    @Lundin I'm pretty sure I explained my reasons and if you think that is irrational/sentimental and have a better idea please respond to my answer.
    – PeeHaa
    Sep 29, 2016 at 14:24
  • 3
    I think the title is really bad. The factthat high rep users got used to it doesn't change a thing. Better title and some SEO optimalization of the question text would really help the matter and I am absolutely sure it would affect the number of duplicates. Sep 29, 2016 at 22:13

5 Answers 5

56

I would suggest changing the title one last time after reaching consensus here, and then:

  1. If just the question title or question itself can be locked for edits without also preventing answer improvements, great, hopefully a mod can do that for us.

  2. If not, I suggest adding this to the very beginning of the question source:

    <!--
          *****       DO NOT CHANGE THE QUESTION TITLE      *****
    
          Here's why: http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/335327/
    -->
    

    That will only be visible if you go to edit the question.

    Somewhat to my surprise (since people don't read), I've had success with this approach on a couple of my answers that used to attact well-meaning but unuseful edits. (I guess people who edit things on SO actually do read, at least sometimes.)

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  • 5
    This sounds like a really good idea
    – Machavity Mod
    Sep 28, 2016 at 15:28
  • 2
    Why should there be a notice not to change the title? If someone can improve the title, that's great! We want that. I suppose a toned down version of that could be edited in ("Please make sure your title edit is actually improving the title"?) but really, how many people would actually see that, and would it really help?
    – hichris123
    Sep 28, 2016 at 20:35
  • 1
    @hichris123: The title changes have, according to the OP, been less than useful. I've found that a notice such as the above is successful (again, see above, to my surprise), so I've suggested it. Sep 28, 2016 at 22:40
  • @hichris123 See Peehaa's answer. It details why the title needs to be left alone
    – Machavity Mod
    Sep 29, 2016 at 0:58
  • 2
    It's a terrible title, @Machavity. And if someone can improve it, kudos to them. I can't accept that there's no better title than this one -- and I don't see why we should force others to believe that too.
    – hichris123
    Sep 29, 2016 at 1:05
  • 1
    @hichris123 It's not terrible, tho, and that's the trouble. You seem to think there's some magic bullet title. Heck, if you think you can do better, then post it as an answer. Nobody is saying you can't make a better title. The problem is that people keep coming up with titles that don't improve it or make it easier to find, and a lot of that stems from people not understanding the issue. All we're saying is that, without a better title that's obvious to PHP users, there's no point to replacing it.
    – Machavity Mod
    Sep 29, 2016 at 1:18
  • 2
    @Machavity I'm sure there's a better title. There has to be -- do you seriously think anyone types in "UTF-8 all the way through" into Google? Prior to this meta post, there have been 4 different titles. I wouldn't say that's a pandemic that needs to be fixed. Sure, there's no point making the title no better -- but if it can be made better, why shouldn't it? And putting a big scary "DON'T EDIT THIS TITLE" isn't the way to make people improve the title...
    – hichris123
    Sep 29, 2016 at 1:28
  • To some degree, it makes sense that people who edit read things. They must have read enough to want to make the edit, after all.
    – jpmc26
    Sep 29, 2016 at 3:38
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    @hichris123: "I'm sure there's a better title." Great! Post it as an answer. Sep 29, 2016 at 7:04
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    @hichris123: There's always a "better" title. "Better" is subjective. There is no one-size-fits-all. When will this end?
    – BoltClock
    Sep 29, 2016 at 7:32
  • 3
    Hopefully never, @BoltClock. "If you see something that needs improvement, click edit!"
    – hichris123
    Sep 29, 2016 at 10:37
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    @hichris123: So you want people making edits to the same title again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again…?
    – BoltClock
    Sep 29, 2016 at 10:49
  • 2
    If it actually improves the post, sure @BoltClock. If someone is smarter than you or I or anyone currently in this discussion and realizes a great new title, yes, I want them to change it. Doesn't matter how many times it's already been edited.
    – hichris123
    Sep 29, 2016 at 10:51
  • 1
    @hichris123: That's why you have edit/rollback wars.
    – BoltClock
    Sep 29, 2016 at 10:52
  • 1
    Not really @BoltClock... otherwise we'd have rollback wars every day when two people change the same title or same post slightly differently.
    – hichris123
    Sep 29, 2016 at 10:54
11

Imo the title is just fine ™. If it needs to be changed at the very least change it to something more useful instead of the same thing wrapped in other words.

The issues with the current edits on the question are:

UTF-8 all the way through my web application (Apache, MySQL, PHP, ...)

We have tags for that. Also it is not limited to those things at all. So no that edit doesn't make any sense.

UTF-8 all the way through MySQL, PHP, and HTML

Again: no no no no. See previous rollback.

How to support UTF-8 completely in a web application

Again: this only limits it to a specific context (web applications) which is neither the only thing the answer is about nor how it is being used as canonical.

How to set support for UTF-8 all for the way through entire application?

Better, but it's a the same thing wrapped in other words. I would be totally ok with this if it would help people find the question better, but most likely it would not. As such it doesn't really improve what (I think) you people are hoping to fix.


People are searching for

  • "encoding issues"
  • "weird characters"
  • "strange symbols"
  • "special characters"
  • "question marks appearing"
  • "characters not showing"
  • "language x (characters) not showing properly"
  • "� shows up"

etc.

Linked questions

I don't see any way you could ever capture all that in the title in a sane way. Nor does any of the edits do anything to capture or even hint at those.

As it currently is the title is just a perfect title for the answer. Once you have read the answer the title makes complete sense and covers it perfectly.

I realize that somewhat goes against our Q&A model, but in this specific case I personally don't see a better way.

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  • 2
    "this only limits it to a specific context (web applications) which is neither the only thing the answer is about nor how it is being used as canonical." - hmm, looks like the question text needs to change then because it directly states "in my web application".
    – hichris123
    Sep 29, 2016 at 10:42
  • 1
    "UTF-8 all the way through" is, without a doubt, the worst of all the titles the question has had.
    – TylerH
    Oct 25, 2019 at 21:22
7

Suggestion:

End-to-end UTF-8 support in a LAMP web stack

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  • 1
    This or forming this statement into a question would both work well, I think.
    – hichris123
    Sep 29, 2016 at 23:05
  • 1
    I disagree with PeeHaa's answer. The question is absolutely tied to a LAMP stack. "I'm aware that I need to configure Apache, MySQL and PHP to do this." and "This is for a new Linux server, running MySQL 5, PHP 5 and Apache 2." Sep 30, 2016 at 13:55
2

UTF-8 All The Things

Credit where it's due.

It's almost as informative as All the way through, and would be a huge win on the let's not take ourselves too seriously part.

  • Cons: it's pretty useless for searches.
  • Pros: C'mon, isn't that awesome?
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  • I'm smiling, but not enough to UV this. :-) Sep 28, 2016 at 19:40
  • 7
    While we are at it just remove that noise that is called the question body and put on the meme gif proper instead!
    – PeeHaa
    Sep 28, 2016 at 19:47
  • 1
    @JohnBollinger People upvote for hand-drawn circles on meta. No reason to be shy. The points here basically don't matter. Sep 28, 2016 at 19:52
  • 1
    @SeldomNeedy So what your saying is this is just a digital version of "Who's line is it anyways?"? Sep 28, 2016 at 19:55
  • @Matthew Comment votes on meta matter even less, and yet you just earned mine. Sep 28, 2016 at 19:56
  • 9
    "All your UTF-8 are belong to us."
    – Jongware
    Sep 28, 2016 at 21:13
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    @RadLexus I had already declared a winner... now I need to decide which is better.
    – Braiam
    Sep 28, 2016 at 21:43
  • @RadLexus: Wow, man, it's like 2001 all over again. :-) Sep 28, 2016 at 22:41
  • Here's my upvote because that is awesome and I would actually support that as a title :)
    – msouth
    Sep 29, 2016 at 22:46
-1

If anything the post should probably be locked while this meta conversation is under way, as roughy 40% of all edits in the "slow burning rollback war" have happened within the past 24 hours, by people involved in this conversation right now.

In the future the best way to combat this kind of thing would probably be to simply not draw public attention to it immediately; just mod flag it first then see what happens. The rollbacks are certainly irritating but they topped out at a rate of 2 per year, compared to what's happening right now.

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