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TL;DR

Where a dupe target has n number of duplicates closed against it, if future questions closed to that dupe target are answered, all the rep for those answers is nullified. This way, there is no reward for lack of research or potential rep farming.


A query given to me by Shog9 of answers posted to duplicate questions by month.

enter image description here

Deduplicator has created the following query:

percentage of answers of confirmed dupes answer by FGITW and non-FGITW

enter image description here

Duplicates are not bad things in and of themselves, but there is a limit of how many duplicates are useful.

This classic dupe target What is a NullReferenceException, and how do I fix it? has 2380 questions linked to it. Albeit, these won't all be duplicates

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35308571/system-nullreferenceexception-generate-in-association-relationship had 3 answers within 4 minutes; 2 with upvotes, and the top one with 3 upvotes within the first minute or so.

There's nothing particularly complex about this question.

It's one thing to say 'use your votes and flags to moderate the site to ensure good, on-topic posts', but wonders never cease.

Can we have some kind of community penalty if a question that is closed as a duplicate with a target with questions closed against it greater than 20, that all rep is invalidated?

Arguments For:

Historically the site has issues with people racing to answer duplicates, and there seems to be divided community support for how to circumvent this.

What is with people who answer questions that are known to be dupes? has 12 upvotes and no answer.

Discouraging repwhoring - Reverse rep from answers posted shortly before the question gets closed 50 upvotes

The answers here discuss the time and effort answerers take to answer a question and how some questions are not clear duplicates. In this case I am referring to well known dupe targets.

How to deal with unclear questions and their lightning-fast ("fastest gun in the west") answers?

The highest voted answer of 70 suggests using our votes. The issue is, we are and yet these are outvoted by people willing to support this content.

What can we do about fastest gun in the west answers that dump out garbage, and then plagiarize existing duplicates?

This question is similar and has several answers, none that have a specific solution, nor a community consensus.

As I see it, the only way to stop FGITW is to take away the rep incentive. There is also no value in rewarding people asking questions that could be answered with a simple google search. Do we want to reward this?

Stack Overflow technology makes me write bad answers

We need to implement strategies to reward people improving the content of the site, not endlessly replicating content.

Arguments Against:

It's clear that the SO community does not like to punish users: Proposal for a punishment system for ninja responders has -45 votes.

However this proposal suggests:

Ideas for punishment would be:

Don't allow up-voting for n hours
Don't allow to be accepted for n hours
Responder will only gain half the reputation for "accepted" or "up-voted"
Responder will not gain any reputation for this answer

However this proposal is only on Q&A of specific dupe targets. It does not suggest a post ban, or any penalty, other than to take away the incentive to rush into answering questions, that are quick to answer, and have well established dupe targets.

Conclusion

This is one viable action we can take that no one can complain unfair on, if a there is a dupe target with 20 questions closed against it, that should offer ample search variations for search engines and address the arguments that maintain that dupes are good. Yes dupes are good, but there is a limit.

If you don't agree, what do you think we should do, if anything?

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    One of the main points of contention on SO is that in the grand scheme of things, when going for rep, you are always encouraged to not moderate but instead answer bad questions. Im not sure if the current management wants that to change.
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 7:10
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    @Magisch they will end up losing dedicated users.. as it's insane, there's no rep incentive to take the time to answer more difficult questions or the less popular tags. And as SO uses rep and badges as the sole incentive for the site, they need to review this.. TLDR I agree
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 7:12
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    This has been brought up before, and rep penaltys for answering dupes have been explicitly denied by the community multiple times, and shog personally said he wants no rep incentive for moderation, so we are locked in the status quo more or less.
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 7:14
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    The only way to fix this is to delete all the answers, revoke any reputation gained from answering and award +50 to all the dupe-close-voters. But this will never be implemented as we all know that SO values quantity before quality. So if you can't beat them, join them. Use your daily vote limit recklessly. Up-vote 50 crappy/non-useful/duplicate questions. (You know, the average SO question) Let the next "hot" network question be a NRE. Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 8:20
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    @Magisch It's a bit of a pity. After all suggesting duplicates is also work. Thanks for the info. Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 10:43
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    All the air play on meta did is give the dupe question more votes. It's official, we're now being run by the lowest common denominator.
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 12:25
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    Side note: your tl;dr is far tl
    – user1228
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 15:32
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    Note that if this was ever implemented (I'm confident it never will be) you'd end up with a lot less people voting to close duplicates (because then people would lose some rep!) or even reopening clear duplicates that they've answered and had upvoted. This could easily backfire to the point that less duplicates end up (and stay) actually closed.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 18:01
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    @Servy this would most probably be a showstopper, folks over here are way too sensitive to losing rep. Do you remember a Black Weekend at MSO in 2012 that forced SE team implement trick with Reputation and Historical Archives? Too many people will cry and die for their precious repz, way too many
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 21:27
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    Do we need that many questions is the point. Your graph shows that the absolute number of answers to dupes has increased. The absolute number of questions has also increased over the same time span. The absolute number of answers has done likewise. The measurement you want is that the proportion of answers to dupes has increased, but that's not what your graph is displaying.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 22:09
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    @SteveSummit: FGITW = Fastest Gun In The West, i.e. people who answer questions ASAP so they're more likely to get the votes & the accept. They go for speed rather than accuracy or quality. Although to be fair many FGITW user do go back & improve their answers.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 11:36
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    The fundamental principle of Stack Overflow is that gamification drives behaviour. "rep" may be fundamentally worthless, but the point is that you get a feedback loop - more rep == more good. It should not be any sort of a surprise that users optimise rep gaining strategies. That's the whole point of it. The only real answer to this problem therefore, is to change rep awards such that optimising for 'score' is the same as 'doing the right thing'. This is a more complicated thing that points for upvotes though.
    – Sobrique
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 11:49
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    @Trilarion The fundamental problem is that SO has become an online debugging service. The canonical post covers everything you need to know except one thing: It doesn't give you the exact location of the spawned error in your spaghetticode. So you either read and learn or you wait for a SO help center employee to hold your hand. You can observe the same debugging "trend" by running this search query. Here we have 3048 posts all of which says that <word> is a reserved word in <technology>. We've soon covered them all. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:19
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    @Trilarion It doesn't matter if the posts aren't exact duplicates. They don' tneed to be exact duplicates for it to be closed as a duplicate. The duplicate target simply needs to provide a suitable answer to the question at hand, which it's perfectly capable of doing without being an exact duplicate.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 15:47
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    For the record I agree with Shog, this is not a problem in need of solving. I don't actually think it is a problem at all. I dislike it when users with gold badges answer obvious duplicates instead of voting to close as such, but there isn't actually anything about that is against any rules. You don't need to be active on meta or know the policies around duplicate closure to have a gold badge, and I think chastising these users who have obviously contributed quite a lot to the community will have no positive effects.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 3:00

12 Answers 12

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You're making a few assertions here:

  1. There's only one common incentive (rep) for answering duplicates
  2. Common duplicates are always easy to identify
  3. Removing reputation for answers to common duplicates will discourage people from answering them

Let's consider each of these in turn...

What motivates answerers?

Reputation is certainly a motivator; not only can you earn privileges on the site, but it's a way to keep score in "the game": if your number goes up, you're winning.

That said, the former is little more than a heavily-constrained token economy, a method of conditioning that works best with cooperative participants (and doesn't work at all for some people). The latter is a form of reinforcement; specifically, intermittent reinforcement - Aarobot wrote about this years back:

What a lot of people don't realize is that with positive reinforcement, the conditioning doesn't really "stick" if you always give the reward. They'll keep doing what you want as long as you keep giving the reward (and as long as they still want it), but as soon as you take the reward away, they will stop. The only reason to perform the behaviour is to get the reward, so in their mind, there's no longer any reason to continue to cooperate. The technical term for this is extinction.

You can mostly ignore the token economy bit beyond remembering that you'll make people angry if you cost them privileges that they really want. The intermittent variable reinforcement is pretty critical though if you're trying to manipulate people via rep, specifically that it works because it doesn't guarantee a payoff. More on that later...

However, reputation isn't the only motivator here; in fact, it's probably not even the strongest motivator. It's visible and accessible and no doubt gets a lot of folks started... But there's a limit to how much extrinsic motivators can do:

Which brings me indirectly to what I think the answer to my question might be: ask and answer questions about topics that I'm actively learning rather than topics I've already formed Platonic ideals about. Looking back at the questions and answers I most enjoyed writing in my time with Stack Overflow, I see that they tended to be on topics I had not yet mastered. Recently, I've been learning Lua and LaTeX, so when I wrote on those topics I found myself completely engaged in the responses I might get. An upvote gave me a rush of excitement not unlike the feeling of victory when scoring points in a game. A downvote led me to scramble to find the source of criticism and correct it.

Jon found that the system actually worked best when he wasn't motivated primarily by reputation. When the topic itself or the process of educating and being educated managed were sufficiently engaging then reputation became a tool toward these ends rather than a game to be played for its own sake. This is something I've observed in many others - including myself - over the years: while you never stop looking for reinforcement, beyond a certain point the external, mechanical forms become less compelling than the internal, social ones. When they conflict - when your own sense of what is worthwhile reinforces an action that the system discourages - then you come to believe that the system is broken.

Common duplicates are always easy to identify

I pulled some data for questions closed as duplicates of the top 100 targets:

  • Median time to first close flag or vote: 7 minutes
  • Median time to answer: 6 minutes
  • Median time to answer where the answer garnered a positive score or accept mark: 5 minutes
  • Median time to actually close the question: 13 minutes

So this assertion seems plausible: for common duplicates, it's about as fast to find the duplicate as it is to answer. However it is slightly faster to answer - and the faster you answer, the better chance you have of being rewarded for it.

Removing reputation for answers to common duplicates will discourage people from answering them

For that same set of 100 most-common duplicate-targets, I counted 41492 answers to duplicate questions (some deleted). Only 21109 of these - not quite 51% - ended up with a positive score or accept mark.

I also counted 21011 answers to questions that someone flagged (or voted) as a duplicate of one of those top-100 targets but where the question didn't end up being closed; that's a bit over 30% of all questions flagged/voted as duplicates of those most-common targets.

Conclusion: the real problem and why this isn't a solution

Let's step back a minute and get some perspective... We need a problem statement here; why do we even care about answers to duplicate questions? I mean, I love that I can close in lieu of answering duplicates - it saves me time and reduces the fatigue involved in repeatedly answering the same questions - but if someone else wants to waste their time on it, where's the problem? I'm gonna propose this as our guiding principle:

Answers to duplicate questions scatter information in a way that makes finding it time-consuming and error-prone for those who need it.

In the absence of things like overt plagiarism, I think this covers most of the more specific issues (searching, commentary, voting) that arise.

So, is your proposed change likely to help ameliorate this problem? No.

It's unlikely that the sole motivation for answering duplicates is actually reputation in all cases... But even when it is, such answers already stand a very good chance - nearly 50/50 - of not rewarding any reputation. This is offset by the fact that it's faster to answer than to find the duplicate, and that even when a duplicate has been proposed there's a decent chance it won't be closed at all. Remember how powerful variable intermittent reinforcement is? That's already at work here, and your solution would merely add slightly more variability to it. And unlike votes or accept marks, many answerers have some amount of direct control over whether the question they're answering gets closed... So as gnat notes, this might actually provide a disincentive to closing duplicates at all!

In short, at best this solution would likely do nothing, and at worst it would make the problem more severe.

So, what can we do?

Well, as your graph illustrates, we've already been doing things. The biggest change we've made has involved making it faster to close duplicates:

  • Gold badge holders can close instantly
  • Askers themselves can trigger the question to be closed by confirming the duplicate
  • The closing system itself prioritizes fast closures, both in review (by showing newly-voted questions to more people) and in general (by aging away votes that haven't been acted on).

As a result, for questions asked in the past year the median time to close for those 100 common duplicates has dropped to 6 minutes - the same as the median time to answer. However, the median time to flag has gone up, to 9 minutes.

The biggest outstanding issue with preventing answers to duplicate questions is finding the right target. I strongly suspect that this is a problem that feeds on itself; as the number of questions (and duplicates) grows, it becomes harder and harder to sift through them to find the right target. It doesn't help that the UI that was supposed to help with this seems to straight-up ignore common duplicates in many scenarios either.

If we want to make an appreciable difference here, making it easier to identify valid duplicate targets is where we should be directing our efforts.

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    Comments archived. FYI, I'm done with this discussion for the day, probably longer. Do your own research, propose changes based on facts not stereotypes.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 23:09
  • I'm not posting another question of this ilk again. It's actually exhausting. Thanks for archiving the comments and taking the time to answer. I think you explained it well and yes the 40 million readers from off the site are the ones seeing the ads. It's removed any doubts I was forming.\
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 3:05
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    The problem is not clear-cut duplicates. Those get closed alright. The problem is questions that should be closed as unclear/off-topic because they lack fundamental input from the OP, where through guess-answers and OP's comments thereon it is proven that it is a duplicate. The other day I saw five answers (of which three were wrong and two less than optimal) in a few minutes to "How to make sure user can't enter a dot in an input field" where the UI framework wasn't mentioned.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 11:17
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    I mean rule number one in Winforms validation is "don't do that in the KeyPress event handler", and guess what 90% of answers to that question do. It's not only the "scatter information" part, it's spreading misinformation by users who desperately want to post an answer. But hey, this answer is at 442 upvotes so apparently it doesn't matter anyway.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 11:26
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    finding the right target: I feel like I flag questions daily where I just want to link to the canonical "What Does This Regex Do?", and the site search can never find it. I end up going out to google to find it!
    – Evan Davis
    Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 21:07
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    "as the number of questions (and duplicates) grows, it becomes harder and harder to sift through them to find the right target" I have the solution for that specific problem: more deletion.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 13, 2016 at 5:18
  • I also want to add that I've found questions closed as duplicates, but the OPs couldn't understand the information in the duplicate's half the time. It would be a crazy situation of, no one can answer me, and this darn question doesn't make any sense to me.
    – Zizouz212
    Commented Feb 13, 2016 at 16:42
  • @Braiam That just sounds.... sad. If our solution to find people answers is to delete things that could help even other people, then there's a problem. Deleting information to try and bring other information to people certainly should not be a first-hand approach to take.
    – Zizouz212
    Commented Feb 13, 2016 at 16:43
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    @Zizouz212 keeping all the information consolidate is a bigger goal
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 13, 2016 at 17:26
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    Agree, I believe my proposal here is in line with your thoughts. Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 18:54
  • Ok, do I miss something here? Why do we try to see this problem as problem with people, and not with technology? Let people ask and answer, let others link duplicates and earn reputation for this, but don't close these questions - instead, allow viewer to see duplicates and read them using friendly UI. Some are duplicates, some are specific cases of the question asked, some are more generic Commented May 15, 2020 at 8:22
  • We can even include previews of questions and answers within the list of answers to the opened question. I don't see stopping people from doing what they are doing a good approach to some technical problems on the long run. Commented May 15, 2020 at 8:24
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I believe we need to sort this problem out from two sides...

  1. Firstly we need to provide an incentive for people to find duplicates.

  2. We then need an incentive for answers to confirm the duplicate

  3. And we need a disincentive for people to answer questions that are clearly duplicates.

Let’s start with (2) "incentive for answers to confirm the duplicate", as it is the easiest. We already have the “please confirm if this answers your question” shown to the person that asked the question if someone votes/flags the question as a duplicate. So let’s just give the person 2 rep for confirming, this being the same as the rep gain for accepting an answer, and hence no more likely to be gamed.

(1) “incentive for a person to go and find the duplicate question”, has been discussed a lot in the past.

  • The incentive has to be meaningful but not too large; we also need to stop “gaming” of it. An incentive of +15 rep seems about right given it is the same as for having your answer accepted.
  • The incentive should only be given if 3 of the people that vote to close (or the gold badge holder) chose the given duplicate target. Or the OP confirms the target as the duplicate.

  • The incentive should only be given to the first persons that flag/vote to close with the above target.

The incentive should not be given to the person that asked the question, or a gold tag badge holder for one of the question’s tag.

(3) “disincentive for people to answer questions that are clearly duplicates” This is hard as we need to define clearly duplicates. Firstly if the answer is given a long time before the duplicate is found, it is unlikely that the question is clearly a duplicate.

Therefore the disincentive is only given when

  • The answer is started to be written after a “possible duplicate” comment is posted.
  • Or a “possible duplicate” comment is posted within 10 minutes of the question being asked. (To reduce the FGITW / fastest gun in the west problem.)

I think the disincentive should just be to lose all the up-votees on the answer. But most important, it must be clearly explained in an unmistakable way to the person the next time they use the site, what has happened, and the benefit to finding the duplicate questions instead of answering.

(Stronger disincentive for "repeat offenders" would be: not being allowed to answer a question that is less than 10 minutes old for n days.)

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    I would like an incentive for doing nothing but closing questions we don't seem fit to keep around. Seems we don't get that. But yet we do it day after day in the SOCVR chatroom and now in some subrooms. If anyone wants to join us, stop on by. Oh, btw, keeping the site the epicenter resource we want it to be is incentive enough for me.
    – Drew
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:31
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    @Drew come up with a way to stop people "gaming" it, otherwise it would get lead to more incorrectly closing of questions. If the "gaming" issue would be sorted out, I would support a small incentive. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:34
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    @IanRingrose I have a firewall answer right below yours. I think I was answer #3 many hours ago. Not that my approach solves all problems for humanity, but it keeps a lot of the problems away if people want to man those battle stations. As for anyone gaining rep for moderation, I have no problem with that or other trinket badges that may be given.
    – Drew
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:35
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    "clearly explained in an unmissble way" -- how about a modal popup informing of the dupe they would have to click through when trying to dump their answer
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 15:05
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    @gnat, I meant AFTER they have lost the rep for answering the dup, so they are less likely to do so again. I have up-voted your answer as I think it would be of benefit on its own or combined with my answer. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 15:21
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    Totally agree, @gnat and this answer would form a perfect solution and having a bot to assist in alerting users to potential dupes.
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 15:23
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    "An incentive of +15 rep seems about right given it is the same as for having your answer accepted." Related to this is the idea of the system actually creating a "stub answer" to represent the duplicate proposal.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 19:53
  • @JoshCaswell Until now I had not seen that ideal, I little different from what I said, as I wish to give the +15 even when the duplicate is not confirmed by the question asker. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 22:12
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    The +2 rep for the asker, when 'accepting' the duplicate seems fair: no loss, no gain. Commented Jan 10, 2020 at 14:36
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FGITW is the problem - dupe answering is merely one of the manifestations.

Put very simply - Stack Overflow is about gamification. You get points for doing stuff. That drives behaviour - that's the whole point - so you really shouldn't be surprised if people optimise for rep scoring.

You get more rep for fast answers to easy/clickbait questions. You don't get rep for dupe-closing them. (Or voting to close. Or downvoting).

So it really shouldn't be a surprise that we get the behaviours we do.

The solution is simple - adjust rep awards such that the things we want people to do, are the optimal route to 'scoring'. Note - simple, but not necessarily easy.

So to address this particular scenario:

  • Award rep for going to the effort of finding a dupe. Honestly - for some of these, finding the right dupe is about as hard as answering it. So - award 10 rep for a 'possible duplicate of...' nomination.

  • 2 rep for vote to close on an existing dupe proposal.

If the dupe is re-opened, then it wasn't a dupe, so remove that rep award (But honestly - I don't know how often this happens, but I'd imagine not often).

And whilst we're at it:

  • Add a minor rep bonus for close votes (when accepted). 2 sounds about right (we give that much for editing things, after all).
  • Add a rep bonus for answering good questions. Now, I know his is hard, because 'average' in a busy tag scores higher than 'excellent' in a niche tag. But as simple as say, +10% extra rep for each upvote on the question, and -10% for each downvote. So a +10 question would be worth 10+10 rep per answer-upvote, and a -5 question would be worth 10-5.
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    Award rep for going to the effort of finding a dupe. That's a sure way to get users closing questions as dupes left and right, often wrongly, in order to accumulate more reputation. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 11:38
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    @FrédéricHamidi: Perhaps. But if someone contests a particular dupe target they can flag the "possible dupe of" comment. Or something...
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 11:41
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    Yes. But... how does that differ from posting the "easy" answer? Maybe you could have a 'nominate-and-accept' which is more or less what we have with the autocomment 'possible-duplicate-of' + close voting.
    – Sobrique
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 11:41
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    As long as the people asking or answering gain nothing from these other actions. I really like this answer. It works in with the idea of reward rather than punishment.
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 12:13
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    Well, if a dupe-close removed rep awards on answers - that means even the most enthusiastic rep finder could hedge their bets - write the answer, nominate a (decent!) dupe.
    – Sobrique
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 12:20
  • Yeh and I guess that would ameliorate the loss of rep
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 12:41
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    "Award rep for going to the effort of finding a dupe" ONLY if the question is then closed with at least 3 of the closer choosing the given dupe. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 13:34
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    "2 rep for vote to close on an existing dupe proposa" NO, this will lead to people doing incorrect closed voting just to get rep. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 13:35
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    @IanRingrose: In an earlier question I also proposed only rewarding dupe finders if their dupe target is selected by a majority of close-voters. However, this doesn't work so well when a question is hammered by a Mjölnir-wielder.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:10
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    @pm2ring, This can be got round by making the Mjölnir-wielder close vote always give the reward, (but not to the Mjölnir-wielder themselfs!) Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:15
  • @IanRingrose: I suppose so, but I don't know if the Mjölnir-wielders will be happy with that. :)
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:19
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    @PM2Ring, I don't think people with gold badges are much given by rep, as they have so much already. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:31
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    This was also proposed formally by the inimitable Pekka a few years ago: Reward finding duplicate questions: +10 +2 -5
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 19:41
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    Speaking as a gold badger, @PM2Ring, I wouldn't care one iota if I didn't get this proposed rep reward for using the dupehammer. I'd think it a bit unfair if I did, in fact.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 19:43
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    I agree with @JoshCaswell. Carrying a JS badge, I'd rather see loads of people get rep on questions I hammer shut after they suggest a dupe, than people getting rep on answers on those trivial / obvious dupe questions. Mjölnir owners have nothing to gain either way.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 7:32
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If you want to penalize someone, you should penalize users who repeatedly don't take the time to check for answers, before asking their duplicate questions.

I think the ideal solution is a combination of:

  1. reducing the number of dupes being asked, and
  2. closing dupes faster (to shorten the FGITW window).

By reducing the number of dupes, this will also lighten the burden of everyone who takes the time to close all these questions. (It may also make a noticeable dent in the CV review queue.)

It's difficult to close questions with less common tags, because they don't get enough views by people who can (be bothered to flag or) vote to close. By stopping dupes from being asked, people don't have to hit up SOCVR to get low-viewed questions closed.

Address the real issue

We should cut down on the number of dupes, rather than placing more burdens on people who give of their time and knowledge to help.

I think it's a mistake to place a penalty on anyone who answers, and it may alienate valued users you'd want to retain.

FGITW needs a more general solution

The FGITW issue is not isolated to dupes. If you want to address that problem, it would be better to come up with a general solution which would improve the quality of non-dupe answers.

As an aside, I've seen a 100K person with a gold badge answer dupes. Frankly, if you really are determined to penalize someone who answers, you could go after people who do have the power to immediately close a question, but don't do so.

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    There's a difference between disincentivise and penalise. AFAICS, the OP only proposes the former. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 3:21
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    It's a fine line. Not letting up votes ever count seems like it hurts the wrong person.
    – user4151918
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 3:28
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    Frankly, if you really are determined to penalize someone who answers, you could go after people who do have the power to immediately close a question, but don't do so. good point.. can't see it ever happening.. maybe take off 10k per dupe answered :D
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 3:30
  • @PetahChristian: But there is a way to make those upvotes count: Get the questions merged because the new answer actually adds something new! Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 3:53
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    "closing dupes faster" That's a tough one. I often see people post answers even before the initial dupe vote gets cast. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 4:21
  • 6
    I strongly suspect that the majority of dupes comes from new users. Systemic disincentives are meaningless for someone who does not know the system, so in this case the hammer, if any, has to fall on the answering side.
    – alcedine
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 10:47
  • 2
    There's been at least one case where I answered a question, because it was a well-asked question, then (after having answered) went "surely this must already have been asked?" and ended up dupe-flagging the question I'd just answered. So, clearly, I acted in good faith, trying to sort dupes out.
    – Vatine
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 10:53
  • 8
    I respectfully disagree. It is those who continue to answer obvious duplicate questions that should be penalized (read. not gain from it). Especially high-rep users that have a gold badge in the tag and should know better. Because by not giving incentive to stop this, the future OPs know that whatever they post, it will be answered, so there's no point for them to look for duplicates.
    – Tunaki
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 11:07
  • 6
    The whole point of stack overflow is to gamify answering. You get rep. It should not be a surprise to anyone that people optimise their strategy for 'what gives me rep' because that's the whole point of doing it. You need to change the payoff, such that 'doing the right thing' is the optimal strategy. This is probably a lot more complicated than just rep-for-upvotes though.
    – Sobrique
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 11:45
  • 2
    @Sobrique Exactly. The rep system and current incentives were set precisely because the creators of SE realise that goodwill and the motivation to do the right thing alone are not enough to convince people to leave good answers en masse.
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:05
  • 4
    I've seen gold badge holders claim that they didn't think the question had been asked before, when in fact they themselves have answered the same exact question in the past. So yes, I do think these users should be punished. Even when you point out that the questions are duplicates, these users do not remove their answer because they want the rep from it.
    – cimmanon
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 16:20
  • 7
    @cimmanon To be fair, there's 3/4 of a year between those two answers, so it's not quite inconceivable he forgot about the old one. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 16:23
  • 2
    @Vatine You're a good data point, then. If you had known that, by flagging it as a dupe, you were potentially going to lose half or all rep garnered by your newly-minted answer.. would you still have cast the dup vote? Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 19:29
  • 1
    @LynnCrumbling If I erroneously answered a question that should have been closed, and later realized it, losing points for my answer would be a disincentive for me to close the question. I would leave it up to someone else. In that specific regard, the consequence would not encourage what is best for the site.
    – user4151918
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 19:39
  • 1
    @MsYvette No. Keeping it open would be unreasonable; it should be closed. But a person would have to give up whatever rep they gained to do the right thing, and you should expect some resistance to doing that, since there's no tangible upside, yet a tangible downside.
    – user4151918
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 21:28
22

I happily upvoted this because I believe that folks answering obvious, blatant duplicates do not deserve reputation. But this comment ruined my day:

if this was ever implemented... you'd end up with a lot less people voting to close duplicates (because then people would lose some rep!) or even reopening clear duplicates that they've answered and had upvoted. This could easily backfire to the point that less duplicates end up (and stay) actually closed

Per what I observed in the past this is most likely what will happen. Unfortunately.


What would be interesting to try instead of such an appealing but probably unrealistic measure is showing a modal popup to the answerer if the question is voted / flagged as duplicate.

With the link (or better yet, full text) of possible duplicate and a message like: There is possible duplicate here, please make sure that you don't repeat already existing answers.

This would serve several goals:

  • For responsible answerers, such an explicit warning would help to make better informed decision, whether to abstain of answering or even support a duplicate with their own flag / vote, or do the opposite, that is answer and challenge duplicate suggestion if they believe it's wrong.

  • It will prevent complaints like "why am I downvoted, I simply didn't notice possible duplicate comment when answering".

  • The last but not the least, it will throttle FGITW shooters who will have to go through an additional screen before dumping their garbage into the question. Especially if the popup shows full text of the dupe target (and its answers!) and if the button to proceed to answer is at its bottom. And especially if the dupe target is a typical question, with lengthy and / or multiple answers.

Implementing such a feature needn't be effort consuming, at least in its simplest form: warning message text, link(s) to duplicate(s) and two buttons for user to pick either to proceed or abstain of answering.

(Certainly cheaper than attempt to change license, possibly even as cheap as 3CV experiment at Programmers.)

And it can be tested say, at MSO / MSE prior to making decision on whether to give it a go at main site.

20
  • 1
    UI might get bit tricky if there's more than one suggested dupe. That would be an interesting UX design challenge to handle this
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 5:58
  • 2
    I really like this answer. We are also working on a chat bot that reports potential dupe targets into suitable chat rooms. Between the two, this should help alleviate the problem (except we prob need to enlist the help of some gold tag badges for dupe hammering). I'm tempted to accept this as the answer, but don't think it's fair at this stage to do so. Let the community decide.
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 6:17
  • voted down likely by a fastest-gun guy scared by a perspective of such an obstacle (not that I complain:)
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 6:49
  • Have a look at my answer, I'm curious to see what you think.. and yes - re the downvote - we're fighting against the ever looming lowest common denominator and the only way to beat it, is to educate them, so by the time they have the rep and mod tools, they are responsible.
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 7:03
  • @MsYvette well my experience with chatbots so far (Smoke Detector and Duga) makes me feel it's very well worth a try. Though you'd have to be prepared to quite a lengthy and effort consuming tuning of bot heuristics (IIRC at Programmers folks messed with Duga for a few months before it "learned" to do things really right way)
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 7:09
  • I have little experience, although and pretty capable with c#, I have an experience bot person, and am hoping I will come through this will good knowledge.. I enjoy programming and the thing with meta, is it doesn't help programming skills, so this is just the perfect thing :D And yes I'm committed.
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 7:11
  • Why limit this to duplicates? If there are certain amount of any type of close votes, then show the dialog. It could even be dynamic based history of the answerer: If he has a lot of answers on closed questions, dialog would show up more easily. Dialog chould also tell why it's shown to him.
    – user694733
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 11:02
  • 1
    @user694733 UI and message would be different than those I describe. Very dfferent. That said, there seem to be a separate, quite popular discussion of this topic: Show current close votes to low-rep users who are considering answering a question and to the OP
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 12:18
  • 5
    The problem is that questions like these often get answers before even a single person thinks of marking it as a duplicate. There are several high (50k+) rep users that consistently answer low quality questions / obvious dupes without even considering closing it, unless called out on it. A popup like that would simply be too late. These are users with multiple gold badges, that just don't search for dupes, even though they can close them on their own.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 12:56
  • @Cerbrus I hope that active (and responsible) Java / C# regulars will be generally faster in dupe voting null pointer / reference questions than FGITW answerers. Because if they won't, there's probably no hope at all
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 13:08
  • 3
    @user1803551 productivity tip: if you feel like there's firmly established canonical dupe then prior to searching for it simply click "close" ("flag -> close" for users under 3K), pick "duplicate" and take a look at system-supplied list of possible duplicates. It often happens that dupe is already in that list, near the top. Not always mind you but really often
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:16
  • 1
    @user1803551 your experience matches mine in cases when there's no easy-to-detect or tag-specific canonical - but when there is one, things tend to go much smoother
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:47
  • 2
    The popup requires someone to suggest a dupe target, though. This won't help with FGITW answers. Frankly, I wish we could aBANdon users like that... They may have much rep, but most of it is gained from extremely simple answers that don't benefit SO in any way.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 15:17
  • 1
    @Cerbrus oh! I see what you're getting at. In that case, popup would help build stronger evidence to aBANdon them, wouldn't it? "Answered 100 dupes total, and 25 of them knowingly (by clicking through and ignoring the warning)" :)
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 15:43
  • 1
    @gnat If you would like to give some input: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/316680/… Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 17:06
17

I like Gnat's answer and IanRingrose's answer particularly as a way to circumvent the issues of reputation loss and to address motivating people to close dupes.

I also have a suggestion, which could work well with Gnat's as a two fold approach to reducing dupe activity.

To create a prototype chatbot that searches questions for duplicated questions. Similar to SmokeDetector who reports certain keyword, phrases and website urls to the appropriate chat rooms for user to review.

This way users in SOCVR and any other chat rooms deemed suitable will be alerted as quickly as possible of any potential duplicate questions.

This prototype, known as Ada, after Ada Lovelace, one of our original computer programmers, will be tested in the SOCVR Testing Facility on the content of following two posts.

What is a NullReferenceException, and how do I fix it?
What does "Object reference not set to an instance of an object" mean?

One being a duplicate of the other and between them covering the main keywords and phrases for a null reference exception.

We will modify Ada as required. If you feel like a spooky trip, look at her repo.. but be warned, it's a work in progress.

7
  • I expect this will be downvoted, as most of my posts here and on SO are routinely downvoted.. :D that's what happens when you rub people the wrong way ;)
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 7:04
  • 4
    Enjoy your up-votes before camp 2&3 glance at your answer. Here's a challenge for your bot: stackoverflow.com/search?q=%22is+a+reserved+word%22+is%3Aanswer Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 7:10
  • @Bjørn-RogerKringsjå good idea thanks. And once we get some kind of working format, I think we will need community input just like that. Yeh camp 2&3 can get lost.. my code at the moment is dreadful, as I'm a first time bot parent.. but this is going to be a great project and baby to undertake to improve those programming skills! yay win win :D
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 7:14
  • 4
    If this actually works out, let's pester the devs to add it to triage too. It's basically the equivalent of the list of possible duplicates on the Ask Question page, but after-the-fact. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 22:17
  • @JeffreyBosboom we're working on it as we speak :D
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 22:42
  • @MsYvette I commented on Shog's answer and Shog asked me to post a feature request, so I'm writing that up now. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 22:43
  • 1
    @MsYvette Feature request posted. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 22:47
9

If you believe that the question is so useless that the people that spent their time answering it, should lose their rep, you can vote to delete it.

If the question is just closed, and not deleted, I don't believe that there should be reputation loss. In general, we don't want to discourage the people that are likely to answer your next question.

22
  • 4
    Do we not want to discourage people from answering duplicate questions?
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 7:24
  • 9
    @Magisch: The person answering may not know that it is a duplicate, or may believe that they are different. Don't assume that everybody's intent is bad.
    – user000001
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 7:26
  • 8
    I can reasonably assume that high rep users should know to do their dilligence in looking for a dupe before answering it, no?
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 7:27
  • 5
    @Magisch: Well, finding the right duplicate may be harder than answering in many cases. I am afraid that some people would just not answer at all, instead of marking it with the right dupe.
    – user000001
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 7:29
  • 3
    @Magisch: Thats the thing. I don't believe that it is illicit. Any upvotes will likely be from people that found the post helpful, so it is legitimate imo.
    – user000001
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 7:34
  • 3
    The problem is, the post isn't helpful. Not linking the dupe instead deprives the asker of the ability of looking at better answers, and creates clutter and noise in the general QA.
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 7:38
  • 2
    If you're worried about not finding the dupe, you could specify a threshold (how many times in the first half hour it's marked as dupe, for example). You could also not apply the rep nullification below a certain reputation threshold.
    – alcedine
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 7:47
  • 2
    Why does it matter what the intent is? If you don't know it's a dup and still answer it, then the onus is on you to do better research before answering.
    – bjb568
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 9:56
  • 4
    @bjb568 But nobody knows that it is a dup until some guys decide it is one. Benefit of the doubt - thing. (Of course for some cases it's kind of very obvious it will be one. But sitll the asker could still edit the question and make it a non-dup.) Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 10:16
  • 4
    Dup-hunting, in many cases, takes too much time, which is why the question-posters don't bother. Why put in the effort of searching when SO contributors are stup.. conscientious enough to do all that hard work for you? Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 12:09
  • 3
    @Trilarion So as an answerer, you should be the guy who looks for dups.
    – bjb568
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 12:14
  • 13
    Only a tiny fraction of the users of the site have delete votes, and each of them has onlya few delete votes each day. The idea that they could delete all the craps, pointless, duplicates of the NPE questions alone is laughable.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 14:30
  • 4
    This train of thought does not seem to take into account that this is specifically about well-known dupes (as in questions that get picked as dupes a lot), not just any dupe. In such cases it should be easier to reason that a question is a dupe, and to find the root question. Heck, probably it will be in your browser history if you're the kind of site hero that actually searches for dupes.
    – Gimby
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 14:52
  • 3
    @Trilarion Fine, but if you're not sure, don't be surprised when your rep is gone for not being sure enough. Answering dup questions needs to be disincentivized. That has nothing to do with intent or knowing whether it is a dup.
    – bjb568
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 15:46
  • 2
    You know, iff the new answer is actually worth it, there's a simple way to address that: Flag for merging. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 2:01
3

TLDR

A new queue is created, called the Pending Questions queue. It receives certain questions. It is possible those questions never become live and see the light of day.


I respectfully disagree with MsYvette's suggestion if I had to say Yes or No on it. I do agree with what it is trying to accomplish and that is new questions arriving that are of some benefit to some stakeholders, that we want to keep around, and that show at least some research effort.

I am also not defining some benefit and showing research effort in this Answer. They are nebulous, and I am not going there. Gets back to what a Reasonable Person would think if one were a lawyer.

First and foremost, I must say we do want new questions. But they need to meet minimum standards. I am not defining that either.

But MsYvette does ask for suggestions if we disagree. So here is mine.

I suggest the creation of a "pending question" status. Along with it would be a new queue. Questions are classified as a pending question if they come from:

  1. OPs with under nnnn rep, up for discussion.

  2. Repeat offenders that violate any reason for question closure enough times. It will be a max value that is known by them and seen in their profile assuming they are so attentive. Or they could be flagged and that bit flipped by a mod.


A "pending question" arrives, here is what happens

No answers are accepted before, say, 5 minutes. This can be extended for that question including indefinitely. How is yet to be determined as this is high-level.

The following is the cast as this pending question attempts to hit the press and active state:

A. the OP. Just sitting there wondering what is going on with his or her masterpiece, yet, desiring help.

B. Those that, shall I say, defend their tag against dupes or other atrocities. This camp has time to find that dupe target reference or objection. I would not limit the objection to just dupes. Perhaps the time is extendable but not without good reason.

C. Those that are in the camp of General Question Acceptance based on site standards are determining the "readiness" or "suitability" of the question to be accepted at this time. This group is not group B primarily. This camp would deal the the likes of a 10 word question and a link, or posts hocking skincare products or stuff to lose those love handles.

D. The FGITW crowd readying their post to illuminate the world. Can't forget them afterall.

Actions that can be performed

E. Comments from anyone are logged under the question as normal. This information and their timestamps are important.

F. The "pending question" can be frozen somehow until ready for prime time. It is left available for the OP to repair or delete but is not visible to others. How this is performed is not addressed in this answer.

G. The ability to "Publish Now" can exist. Up for discussion, especially the part of how one action here can trump another.

H. The duration of "inaction" by any groups B and C above is reached. The question goes live and camp D above goes wild with it.

Other issues:

I. Abusing powers to squelch questions from coming live is dealt with by the removal of those privileges described above.


Other comments

Concerning 1 and 2 above. Some metric can be calculated such that after achieving successful recent posts, that that OP becomes exempt from the Pending Questions queue and their questions go live immediately.

Concerning A: We want your questions. We just want them ready for prime time and showing some research effort.

This presentation is just a stub for conversation. It seeks suggestions from anyone concerning how groups E, F and G achieve the necessary status or privilege and how they overrule one another.

I am a little surprised that this system, with all its queues, doesn't already have this implemented to avoid all the trash that arrives here such as spam. Many of us spend much of our time getting alerted by bots to live posts. Much of that would be avoided with this. Especially if a dedicated group of volunteers are really into it.

There naturally exists the possibility that the Pending Questions queue is not visible to all users of stackoverflow. One pleasant side effect of this would be receiving a more gentle rebuke of question quality with a stock cut and paste "your question is not quite ready yet" as opposed to going live immediately and getting wailed upon by the masses. Additionally, it saves the cherished close votes available for many of us that deal strictly in moderation activities.

A new question in the Pending Questions queue is handled in a short time period without depleting the close votes available to the deciders. If the question is put on hold, it goes back to the drawing board for the OP to fix and to the end of the queue in a lower priority. It getting fixed and re-presented for acceptance is so marked and obvious to the reviewers, and there is a limit to the number of times it can be re-thrown at those reviewers.

I am seeking input as to how certain users here could achieve status to be the deciders in the above, and how their decisions can trump one another. Because, after all, a final status has to be given to the new question.

And I am clearly suggesting that new users' questions do not immediately go live. If there are no objections during this short period, it does go live.

I said it at the top and I will say it again in closing: we want new questions from new or any user.


There it is. What say you?

7
  • 6
    So, you want to change the triage queue? Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 2:03
  • @Deduplicator I am suggesting the above. Any insight would be welcome. Thanks.
    – Drew
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 2:07
  • 3
    @Deduplicator whether or not a question ends up in the triage queue after the fact is secondary. This is a first contact firewall wedge. And as I see it, it benefits the community is various ways, such as spam and new account generation tomfoolery. If the caretakers are asleep at the switch or out eating cheeseburgers, the question goes live.
    – Drew
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 2:26
  • I will get back to you Drew, I need more coffee and a re-read :D
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 3:40
  • Nice to see this answer has risen from the downvotes
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:37
  • We don't have willing caretakers, otherwise the close review queue would be empty! Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:47
  • I agree Ian. Some try for a while then give it up.
    – Drew
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:50
1

If I understand correctly, there's already a mechanism to prevent people (only high-rep users apparently) to answer too quickly (Throttling trusted users). I'm glad I never stumbled into it BTW.

So why not just increase the delay, and give more time for commenters/closers to act before someone answers? And see if the graph improves... Else, increase again, repeat...

(I wasn't aware of this feature until someone mentionned it, and I was proposing it here: Add a 1 or 2 minute delay before being able to click the "answer" button)

0

I don't see this as a major problem but let's assume it is.

I just can't see this working, for a few reasons:

  • This punishment isn't preventative, it's retroactive. It doesn't happen instantly. I think it is idealistic to believe that it will make users more thoughtful, when in reality it will just create irritation and confusion. If anything I suspect it will teach users who would have unknowingly answered a duplicate that any answer they give has the possibility of being "nullified" at some unknown point in the future. I think we will more than offset the savings of this with the cost of having to explain a delayed, inconsistent (remember it relies on dupe votes) "punishment" mechanic over and over again.

  • I don't see this discouraging the asking of duplicate questions. The type of person who asks a duplicate question doesn't seem likely to be the type of person who may care about loss of rep at some unknown point in the future. A lot of times they might even be a new user with nothing invested in the rep system yet anyways (and thus it isn't an effective deterrent).

  • I don't see this discouraging the answering of duplicate questions either, for similar reasons as above but slightly more complex. Attempting to run through a full scenario of a user answering a duplicate question, I just can't see this working. I don't think this type of person will even understand this as a consequence. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems the goal is to cause people to search for dupe targets instead of answering dupes; but the only people this will affect are people who are meta-aware enough to know this is happening, and those people probably know not to answer already anyways.

I agree with Shog's deeper assessment here, but just looking specifically at the surface-level proposal here, I can't see it having any effect beyond additional confusion and bitterness with the same rate of dupes.

2
  • 2
    How well does NAA/VLQ answer deletion work to discourage recidivism? Those would be good stats to have on hand to make this argument; dupe-based rep-nulling would usually happen with similar or better speed. Commented Feb 13, 2016 at 2:39
  • 1
    If you see it as a punishment to revoke the incentive in a timely manner, consider just awarding it delayed until dupe-closure would likely be done, and not counting dupe-losing more than that time after answering. Of course, the point Nathan raised should also be considered, Commented Feb 13, 2016 at 3:43
-2

I have to ring in that I ask a question sometimes that I see has been asked before, however of 5-10 of the questions I searched, there were few or no votes for an answer.
I love this site, and will absolutely continue to use it, but I have to say that beyond the personal embarrassment of being marked as a dupe, being directed to a question that has 5 responses and maybe 1 vote is still shotgunning..

Thanks for all this community does!

2
  • Well, get 4 more rep, and you can help marking good content as useful. Get to 125, and and you can also mark bad content as bad. Commented Feb 13, 2016 at 0:48
  • You know, I don't know why I bother. It is tough being in this sandbox, I can't even give a guy kudos for good work. When I do have time to sit and look for questions to answer I get clipped in one of 2 ways... someone answers for me, or, worse, I loose the points because the guy doesn't like my answer.. anyway I've used this site for more than 3 years - maybe 5 in some form or fashion, I guess its just going to be like that for me. The way its setup its discouraging to me. I'm sure there are others like me, but hey! the site is my goto for tech questions either way. Commented Feb 13, 2016 at 1:34
-6

I'll summarize a bit of my comments from below.

I used to be a FGITW user. I would come to the site, look for questions to answer, and answer them as fast as possible. It was a game to me, I wanted to earn rep, and the fastest way to earn it was through answering easy questions. I didn't care if the questions were dupes, or should be closed, etc, because 1: I wouldn't lose my rep from the dupes, 2: any rep I lost from a question being deleted or closed wasn't really a loss in rep, I just didn't gain rep for the short amount of time I spent answering, and 3: it felt good helping someone. The only thing that pulled me away from this was running out of privileges to earn.

That said, from my point of view, I can't see removing the rep gained when a question is closed as a dupe as being a suitable deterrent to make any kind of dent in this problem. Sure, they may lose the rep they gained from the answer, but at most they're only losing maybe 30 seconds to a minute of time spent, they aren't really losing rep. There's no real negative impact. You can't lose more rep than you gained. This means that to overcome this penalty, you simply keep answering questions.

The only way a deterrent like this would work is if the answerer actually lost rep in the end rather than breaking even.


What if we throttled these users from answering after so many of these occurrences? In a way these users are no different than the users asking questions other than their reason for doing so is rep rather than getting an answer. So, lets slow them down so that they have to put more effort into choosing which questions are worth answering (in addition to removing any rep gained/lost due to votes on popular dupe closed questions).

13
  • 5
    Feeding the help vampires does cause problems though. It encourages more bad questions.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 21:25
  • 1
    if it's a bad question, close/downvote/delete it as such, they'll lose the rep.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 21:25
  • 2
    And they won't care in the slightest because you fed them, so they'll be right back 2 hours later with something else for you to google for them because they know you'll do it. It doesn't matter if the question is closed, how many downvotes they get, or whether the question is deleted (although it's quite rare for such questions to get enough attention from high enough privileged users to get deleted), if people are doing their work for them, they'll keep asking.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 21:26
  • and then it'll happen again, and they'll eventually end up question banned.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 21:28
  • 2
    And then they'll create a new account, and it'll continue until the end of time. And that's assuming their questions are reliably downvoted, and closed. Often the type of person who likes feeding help vampires is going to upvote their questions, so that they can have more bad questions to get easy rep answering, preventing them from being question banned.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 21:28
  • I don't see how this proposal will change this situation. The same thing is true for the FGITW users. Sure, now maybe a few of their answers will result in negative rep, but overall they'll still get positive rep due to quantity.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 21:30
  • 3
    If you dis-incentivize people from answering questions like these, and people learn that their questions will just get closed and not answered then they'll learn what it takes to make their questions appropriate enough to get an answer (or go elsewhere, either way is a win).
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 21:31
  • I don't think dis-incentivizing people from answering them will solve the problem though unless you actually remove chunks of rep that they didn't have before answering. Just removing what they gained isn't going to matter.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 21:41
  • 1
    It would help. I agree it likely wouldn't solve the problem. Creating an even stronger dis-incentive to answer questions like these than just not giving them rep would plausibly be better, I'd agree with that. Honestly I have no expectations of even the idea as presented ever actually happening, so naturally my expectations of something dramatically stricter are...not high.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 21:45
  • 1
    I re-iterated a bit on my answer, i will agree that it is a problem.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 10, 2016 at 22:23
  • 1
    I love your honesty, and the idea of throttling users if users get a notification when answering a questions that's deleted, with a warning this can lead to a post ban.. Man you need to post this as a question.
    – user3956566
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 3:43
  • I've often thought about throttling users, but suspected I would get a ban, and probably arrested:( Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 16:57
  • it would be hard to come up with the right ratio->throttle algorithm because with so many answers being spat out by one of these users, it's likely the ratio of dupe answers to good answers will constantly get smaller, not bigger. Even restricting it to only counting upvoted answers vs obvious dupe answers isn't going to work because the first answer is very likely to be upvoted anyway.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 17:03

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