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Probably asked, but really just stating a case here and really not going for the "meta effect" that I have read before, but here is the link anyway:

Get range of values with group by clause in mongodb

This mostly gets to what "I believe" to be a plagarized (is that right?) answer recieving any kind of attribution due to any reader information not being available to assess the "copied" content for themselves.

Moving on.

So here is the summary of my points:

  • Yes the answer submitted by myself was submitted first and yes there is "upvote" attribution to that. But.

  • I did leave a comment to the author of the other anwer that said (sic) " you may have come to the same conclusion yourself, but there was at least a 10 minute timespan in between". Sic, editorial mostly because I can no longer see the exact wording (because it has been removed), but basically along those lines and by no means offensive or not-contructive as it makes a valid poit as to why submit an answer after such as duration? When one already exists to the same conclusion (being nice).

But because of the duration, and also mainly because of the "lack of explaination" ( it think I made reference to that as well ), then to me at least this looks like outright plagarism of an answer already given.

To one end, I could not care less as long as the poster of the question gets the answer that resolves their problem. But to the other end, this is not the first time I have seen this behavior in about a month of activity here.

Some people seem to think that this is okay to do, just copy the content from a correct answer and post it for yourself. In "all" cases, the same "just a block of code" with "no explanation" about why the code needs to be that way.

In "all" cases I have observed, the user doing that gets rewarded with at least an "upvote" or many, and sometimes acceptance of the answer even though it was posted later than the other response ( mine, but not really the point ).

To me this is "plagarism", pure and simple. Sure similar responses can always come about, but given the content of the responses it "reeks" of "copy" to me at least.

Therefore, considering the "comment deletion" that was intended to alert viewers of the actual sequence of events ( and I am keeping in mind that revisions are not displayed in granular "minutes" after an hour has passed ), how are people meant to work the "plagarism" out for themselves unless there are comments or some other intervention.

Should I have just flagged "plagarism"? Because I did once on just such a case and it just got thown out, so that option does not seem the good one if it is not going to consider the facts as I have presented here. And to be fair, we just don't get the oppurtunity to present the full facts in the comment space allowed anyway.

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  • 3
    Haven't checked these if same, but user also answered same question after you here stackoverflow.com/questions/31587340/… , stackoverflow.com/a/31242500/3041194
    – CRABOLO
    Jul 24, 2015 at 12:48
  • @BlakesSeven you can see the timestamp as hovertext (tooltip) over the "1 hour ago".
    – ryanyuyu
    Jul 24, 2015 at 12:53
  • @ryanyuyu Can you. I was not aware. And I don't really think people look at that. I agree with the comment to "Dronehinge" and I actually did not notice it was the same user. But as I said. Not just on my anwers, but I have seen the same behavior a few times. Jul 24, 2015 at 12:55
  • @Dronehinge Interesting. I did not notice it was the same user. Jul 24, 2015 at 12:56
  • @Dronehinge the first of those two looks pretty suspicious. The later code even has the exact same missing space after a comma that the original code did.
    – resueman
    Jul 24, 2015 at 13:03
  • I don't think you can read too much into those answers. Your answer is better. The other user mostly favours a more succinct style, but a random walk through their answers doesn't reveal anything systemically outrageous to me. You're both short-termers targeting the same content. What have you done to get so many profile views in your short time? Jul 24, 2015 at 13:04
  • @resueman the code is different (if you mean the first link of Dronehinge's). I've had that done to me, someone just copy to get the basic guts then make their change. It's just a typing short-hand. I often "copy" from the question. Copying 95% of the code of an answer is not plagiarism if the remaining 5% is significantly different (it is different in this case, I don't know about the signinificantly). Jul 24, 2015 at 13:07
  • @BillWoodger The "thumbs up agree" here is that the "better" answer should see though. But what I was getting to is the "attribution" of "upvote" or "acceptance" where it is just clearly a copied response. For you last part, I am only trying to provide correct and informative answers. I already stated "as long as the OP gets it" then that is fine. But why should outrigh plagarism get credit? Jul 24, 2015 at 13:08
  • You have knowledge of the subject. Go through the user's answers (take a break first). If you still, from further evidence, believe it is a systematic thing, flag. Please in the future consider not naming names on Meta. There is a Meta Efffect, which at times can be terrible and stunning to the named user. And get that apostrophe fixed in your username. Jul 24, 2015 at 13:13
  • @BillWoodger Did take a break anyway so that is okay. There is nothing heated here, I am just saying that the general behavior seems a bit "rife" and that not making that clear to people viewing as well as rewards being given for that behavior is basically unfair and not in the spirit of creating knowlege for those to come. I already said that "I hope" the right thing wins out in the end, but this is really about attribution to those who really do not deserve it. Jul 24, 2015 at 14:14
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    Plagiarism is taking someone else's work an calling it your own with no changes and no attribution. The code here is different, including variable names and properties. They, the code is very similar and I'm sure not significantly different, but the point is that the code is different. If this was a case of plagiarism, the code would have to be exactly the same for such a short answer to be clearly copying you. As it stands, even if they did copy it, there just isn't enough to go off of here to prove it. All you've got to point to is a similar code block- But not an identical one.
    – Kendra
    Jul 24, 2015 at 15:58
  • 1
    Also note that maybe they didn't see your answer for whatever reason- Perhaps they don't get the notifications that pop up to warn you another answer has been posted while you're working on yours. Perhaps they didn't bother to scroll up when they posted theirs, instead just reading theirs to check that their code was correct and going. So that could very well be why they decided to leave their answer- They literally did not see yours. 8 minutes may seem like a lot of time to you, but if they were testing their code and slow at typing, it's a very reasonable time-frame for similar answers.
    – Kendra
    Jul 24, 2015 at 16:00
  • 1
    I also realize it's not pleasant to be told that no one, or very few people, agrees with you on this- But accusations of plagiarism can damage another user's actual real-world reputation. They shouldn't be made lightly, and this may very well be why your comment was deleted.
    – Kendra
    Jul 24, 2015 at 16:01
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    If you want to go to sleep, go to sleep. Turn your device off and walk away. My commenting here is certainly not stopping you. I am not ranting, I am explaining how the scenario could have happened. Yes, you mentioned you made a comment. I mentioned that in my comment as well. I continued typing as I was finishing my thoughts, my apologies for having enough to have a few points yet not feel like I had enough for an answer. I read the question, I read the answers, and while I can certainly see your side of this, there just is not enough here to prove anything.
    – Kendra
    Jul 24, 2015 at 16:05

3 Answers 3

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I think your comment was rightfully deleted. It's simply not constructive to accuse another user without any real proof. Furthermore, I believe unsubstantiated accusations can be actively harmful for potentially innocent users. So I would't leave such a comment unless I was absolutely sure plagiarism was happening. Which leads me to the next point.

Should I have just flagged "plagarism"?

Yes, instead of just accusing the user, raise a custom moderator flag (other flag) and explain why you think plagiarism is occurring. Please be very specific, otherwise the moderators will not be able to accomplish anything and will decline your flag. For reference, this is how Shog (a diamond mod and SE employee) defines plagiarism.

IMO however, this is a weird set of coincidences. Here are a few reasons I don't think it's plagiarism (or at least very hard to prove):

  • The post timestamps are very close, so it could reasonably be coincidence:
+----------+-------+
|  Poster  | Time  |
+----------+-------+
| Question | 11:23 |
| You      | 11:31 |
| Suspect  | 11:39 |
+----------+-------+
  • The other user's code is actually distinct from yours. Variable names are different, and the $project section includes two extra arguments/properties (id, name) that yours doesn't. This suggests that the other user created this independently from your answer.

  • The code you claimed was copied is a rather short snippet. For code this short, there is often a single common solution that many users will arrive to independently.

  • Browsing the other (visible) answers that user has posted, they have many other real answers. That user has a bad habit of not explaining of lot of the code, but there are many contributions that look original, including being the only answer for some questions.

I think it's a pity that the other answer is as highly voted as yours since it lacks explanation, but I don't think there's plagiarism or anything malicious going on here. I would have preferred if the other user had just upvoted your answer instead of posting a similar one. Because the other user didn't explain the code-only answer, you could consider downvoting the answer as "not useful" due to the lack of explanation or redundancy. More on "duplicate answers".

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  • Well to me at least 8 minutes is a long time, and more than enough to realize there is a response already. For myself, if I was posting and someone said the same thing and I found that ( and more like seconds really ) then if I thought what I had to say added nothing more then I would delete it. But what I am saying here does not suit that case, even if it is not my own choice of actions. The comment should not have been deleted, and I have no faith that a flag would have resulted in an appropriate action. Jul 24, 2015 at 14:17
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    @BlakesSeven the phrase "reasonable doubt" comes to mind. And if you "have no faith that a flag would have resulted in an appropriate action", then why bring it up in a comment? That's really throwing around accusations blindly, especially if you don't expect that they will be actually helpful.
    – ryanyuyu
    Jul 24, 2015 at 14:23
  • Cannot disagree more. "Reasonable doubt" cannot apply over such a time span. I also believe there was another citation here ( again deleted ) attributing that the same user has done the same thing at least once before and on an question answered by myself. Also the clear "meta effect" is seen here where that plagarised answer has received even more attribution. Please understand my reasonable response of "no faith" when I see such actions. You may mean well, but the effect does not come out the same. It plainly is not fair to plagarise the work of someone else. Jul 24, 2015 at 14:26
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    @BlakesSeven then raise the flag yourself. I personally don't think this is plagiarism. You haven't provided enough evidence of something that could potentially really hurt an innocent user. And "Cannot disagree more"? I don't see any downvotes on my meta answer. (wait, am I asking for a downvote?)
    – ryanyuyu
    Jul 24, 2015 at 14:32
  • What can I say other than when was the last time you posted the same answer as someone else without explanation or improvement? Can you judge that the post by the other user there is an improvement? Or do you not actually know? That is what it means to be on my end of a moderator flag. Just so you know. It's plagarisim and should be stamped out and certainly not encouraged. Appreciate that you think you are helping here, but helping is considering and taking action. Jul 24, 2015 at 14:41
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    @BlakesSeven It's not uncommon for two very different people to come up with the same solution to a programming problem. It's also not uncommon for users to post their answer, without reading the answer that was posted while they were drafting their answer. You may be correct, he may have copied your post, but bringing it to meta isn't going to help your cause, you should have just flagged it instead.
    – Kevin B
    Jul 24, 2015 at 15:24
  • @BlakesSeven You're missing the point. Meta isn't the place to discuss this. We (the community) can't do a damn thing to help you with this problem, only elected moderators and SE staff can.
    – Kevin B
    Jul 24, 2015 at 15:31
  • @KevinB I don't think I am missing the point at all, but surely you are. We the community are the only thing that can make the moderators who do not give a damn to do anything right. So thanks for your support. Signing out. Jul 24, 2015 at 15:36
  • @KevinB I've got your back here. I don't understand what "action" the OP is expecting.
    – ryanyuyu
    Jul 24, 2015 at 15:39
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    @BlakesSeven No, there was not a significant amount of time. It was 8 minutes. It is entirely reasonable that the user saw the question before your answer was posted, and started writing his solution without realizing that someone else was also working on a very similar solution. They may have realized after they finished writing the answer that there was a similar answer, at which point it's certainly not that uncommon, or unreasonable, for them to have left their answer instead of deleting it. If he had posted the answer many hours, days, or years later, then that's different.
    – Servy
    Jul 24, 2015 at 15:44
  • I give up. But seriously if you do not understand the content ( which most of you clearly do not ) then do not cast votes. And just because I disagreed wth your "opinion" is no reason to cast downvotes on a legitamate and helpful response that you clearly do not understand. Clearly no point reaching out to the "community" ever again. Jul 24, 2015 at 15:46
5

I copy code from answers. Highlight. Copy. Paste. Change.

That "Change" is the important part. The changes I make are significant. The code which remains is insignificant, it is "the stuff you're going to need" anyway. If I see a sentence which uses "the" and "and" and "is" and such-like, it doesn't indicate my sentence has been copied (even if it has) and those words do not represent my original thinking.

I have also started to answer questions when something comes up before I can finish. Time goes by. Another user has answered in the mean time. There's other content, but from the timestamp alone, there's always going to be the sneaking feeling from the malicious reader that I've copied someone else's idea and passed it off as my own.

Actually, I don't believe that. I believe the next reader along is at least going to give me the benefit of the doubt, if not find solace in two answers which both support a crucial part of the solution to the problem.

Oh, and that time that I'm away from an answer? Off the top of my head, up to a few hours.

I'm not alone if having gone through a number of other answers by that user. I can see nothing suspicious there. I even saw a comment of yours pointing out a code error in an answer of theirs.

The second part of your title says "When is a similar conclusion acceptable?". You do seem to have prejudged the situation and put that as the first part of your title.

I've had experience searching for plagiarism in student's work. It's such a strong accusation that certainty is required, with multiple evidence to support. Your strongest evidence is simply eight minutes.

For the record, I'll repeat from some comments. Your answers are better. I can't see evidence. Take a break and then check for yourself. A plagiarist is not a once-off type of person. If you find new evidence, flag for moderator with the custom flag. Explain. Otherwise, accept the state of things (not plagiarism) and move on to the next answer. Or just move on to the next answer.

Get that apostrophe fixed.

7
  • What "change". Do you understand the API in question here? It seems that if you did the only apparent change is { _id: 0 } which is just the exclusion of a "grouping key" that is valid to the results, as othewise there is just a list of values without any data to represent what that data belongs to. This is just another rant from someone who does not understand the source material they are commenting on. It is a "copy" made in a significant time period between the posted answer that it is a copy of. Jul 24, 2015 at 14:55
  • There is also as quoted in the question, "no explanation" and "no resourceful links" for benefit of the OP who posted the question. Therefore the person posting such a response does not actually understand the response they are giving. Because it is a "copy". That is the very definition of plagarism by the guidelines given in the site help. Yet you want to argue against that. Jul 24, 2015 at 14:57
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    I'm stating what I do. I can't read minds. An API can easily lead to very similar code. Now, I certainly don't understand the code in the two answers, and can't tell whether the changes are "significant". The format, use of quotes, spacing, naming are different. Yes, eight minutes could be spent doing that. No, I couldn't find evidence in other answers that this is what they do. So "acceptable similar conclusion". Jul 24, 2015 at 15:01
  • Look "Bill". You are not "stating" anything. You just want to arguem and I have no time for that. If you wanted to say something insightful then you would have. This is just a rant. No more time. Goodbye. Jul 24, 2015 at 15:04
  • 1
    The style of that particular user in answering questions is poor, as you point out. I found very little substantial text in their answers. That I did, I checked for, and found to be highly likely original. Personally I don't see much point in those type of answers, but they are popular (and sometimes very popular) it seems for people who want to paste-and-go into their project, no need to understand, just ask if the same thing happens again. Your answers are better. Jul 24, 2015 at 15:04
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    Lack of explanation does not guarantee lack of understanding of presented content, nor does it indicate plagiarism. Often times well written code doesn't need to be explained to be understood.
    – Kevin B
    Jul 24, 2015 at 15:07
  • And besides, the edit button exists for a reason. Feb 7, 2018 at 19:57
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Plagiarism is irrelevant imo in the online Information Age to stuff having no monetary value that you post on the Internet. If someone takes time to find and copy an answer that resolves a question, helping the Asker, give thanks. This discussion reminds me of folks who put their code on github and complain when somebody compliments the work by forking it.

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    "Plagiarism is irrelevant". I don't agree with this, and neither does Stack Exchange. There is a difference between enhancing other's work while giving attribution, and straight-up stealing it.
    – ryanyuyu
    Jul 24, 2015 at 14:44
  • 6
    Plagiarism is plagiarism. There is nothing in the definition which fits your interpretation. I'm sure dodgy students around the world will agree with you, however. Jul 24, 2015 at 14:53
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    Using another's work isn't plagiarism. Plagiarism is using another's work and claiming it as your own original creation. Using others' work while properly citing it is very different. Additionally, I don't see how copying and re-posting someone else's answer to the same question (even though that clearly didn't happen here) would be helpful. Re-posting that same information in a different location could potentially have value (although you should cite the source when doing so), but a second, duplicate, answer to the same question isn't helping that question author get an new information.
    – Servy
    Jul 24, 2015 at 15:50
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    With so much plagiarism going on on Stack Overflow every day, I look forward to seeing your reaction when you inevitably catch someone red-handed stealing your work. I mean, it's free, right? The time and effort you put into creating it yourself is irrelevant anyway. No, you didn't create it - they did.
    – BoltClock
    Sep 9, 2015 at 3:58

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