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Somewhat more than a year ago, the mighty Mjölnir (or dupehammer) was rolled out. With this feature, gold badge holders for a tag can close-vote questions in that tag as duplicate with only one vote as opposed to five votes.

Terms being used that inspired me to ask the following questions were:

it's a [trial] run - guess we'll see how it goes :)

And:

This is being deployed initially as an experiment, I think there's enough sanity here to prevent most abuse cases, and we don't really have a very large rate of incorrect duplicates. If this pans out well, we might consider giving gold tag badge holders more weight in other areas, and possibly considering silver tag badge holders.

So: is the dupehammer still being evaluated? How is that going? Is it used as often as anticipated, as well as expected and not generating many complaints? Are there numbers on it (I feel like I've used it at most 50 times last year)? Is it being used to full satisfaction, and are future changes to gold or silver badge holders still in the pipeline?

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    "gold badge holders for a tag can close-vote questions in that tag as duplicate with only one vote" -- too much power IMHO. Give them 2 votes if you like, but I don't think one person should be given overwhelming authority to close a question. I got dupehammered incorrectly by a gold badger, 6 minutes after posting, who didn't read the question properly. He reopened it, but left me in angry limbo for a while.
    – Jason S
    Commented Jul 9, 2015 at 15:48
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    @Jason one incident doesn't make it useless for every case. It's been in use for more than a year now, and a "resounding success" according to Tim below.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jul 9, 2015 at 15:49
  • And FWIW, while closing a question has little effect on the long-term status of the question (it can be reopened easily), it can have a huge social impact. If all you care about is question curation (and not fostering a cohesive community), go ahead, wield the dupehammer, give it to anyone with a badge, whatever.
    – Jason S
    Commented Jul 9, 2015 at 15:51
  • @JasonS Tim Post is technically an employee, not a moderator. (Opinions may vary on how that affects his credibility.)
    – Air
    Commented Jul 9, 2015 at 16:20
  • @JasonS "I don't think one person should be given overwhelming authority to close a question" So you disagree with moderators and employees being able to do this, as well?
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 9, 2015 at 21:04
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    I guess I can deal with mods/admins/employees/whatever (people with the diamond next to their username), since they are more directly accountable to the community... but would still feel better if it always took at least 2 people. It doesn't seem like that big a hurdle, and it's a counterbalance to a momentary lapse of judgement.
    – Jason S
    Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 1:23
  • So far, my only experience with people using that privilege is negative. While only anecdotal evidence, there appears to be a trend to be overly coarse when deciding whether a question is a duplicate. In fact it usually reminds me of 1st level support forwarding tickets based on key words simply appearing in the ticket description, no matter the weight or role of that words' occurence in the text. And it carries a similar emotional effect. Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 9:40
  • @hiergiltdiestfu close votes (of whatever kind) are a way of saying "Nobody should answer this". This happens through duplicate-voting for clear duplicates, and unclear-voting for questions that are, well, unclear, just as too broad votes for questions that are multiple questions in one. A close-vote is never permanent. Sometimes a question is so unclear or broad that nobody could properly answer it (so it should be closed), but parts of it hint towards being a duplicate of an existing question. I can see a gold badge user being tempted to use the Mlölnir to prevent anyone from answering.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 9:46
  • @CodeCaster thanks for your answer. This is probably related to rep-based privileges*, but to me, close votes appear to be permanent. I can only think of flagging wrongly/abusively closed questions for mod attention, to get them removed. And this is a hurdle I'll not jump most of the time, because most misuses are minor (aka questions are closely related, but strictly no duplicates). (*Close/Reopen vote privilege, obviously.) Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 10:20
  • @hier yeah, once you can vote to close (as opposed to flagging), you can vote to reopen as well.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 10:27
  • I do like the dupehammer, it's a nice bonus. However, as with anything like this, those people can make mistakes. Perhaps it's worth allowing commenters to ping the user who used it? I don't think this can happen at the moment?
    – DavidG
    Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 12:42
  • @David it works if someone pings the closevoter. Probably because of the auto-removed "possible duplicate" comment that gets posted in your name if you do so. Maybe the possibility could be mentioned in the close message.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 13:07
  • @CodeCaster I just feel that a Mjölnir wielder has a little more responsibility to be called back to re-check. With great power... yada yada yada!
    – DavidG
    Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 14:01
  • @CodeCaster I think CVs are more a way of saying "This question does not meet the requirements of the site" more than "Nobody should answer this".
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 11, 2015 at 7:11

1 Answer 1

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It's something we're always going to continue to keep an eye on, because it is quite a bit of power to wield. It's working very well in the hands of people that currently have the ability.

That said, we're calling it a resounding success. While I have questioned the choice of duplicates in some instances, there haven't been many where closure was completely inappropriate, and many of those were fixed by someone else with a gold tag badge.

It's permanent, and we're considering other ways to extend more privileges at the gold and silver tag badge levels. It helps the site, it's a big help to moderators and it removed quite a few frustrating clogs.

Future directions? We need to find a way to gracefully deprecate answers that were once great but now get in the way, or are actively harmful. I'm pretty sure I'm going to require that you have at least a silver badge in the original question tags in order to be able to vote to do this, and perhaps your votes will carry more weight if you have a gold badge. I'm still forming the idea, I'll be tossing it out on MSE today or tomorrow for discussion.

But, yeah, the presence of the badge is a pretty reliable signal that someone should be able to do more in their vested tags.

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  • Thanks for answering. As for the "deprecation" you talk about - do you suggest we might be able to change the accepted answer on old questions? Looking forward to the discussion.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jul 8, 2015 at 13:28
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    Change? No. But it would lose the elevated 'on top of stuff that's way more useful today' status, get sort of grayed out, with a post notice saying it was once spectacular, and still useful for historical reasons since you might see something done this way, but more recent answers should take precedence as you decide on your implementation, or something to that point.
    – user50049
    Commented Jul 8, 2015 at 13:30
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    Effectively, it would just take its rightful place in history and get out of the way of more useful (and possibly 200% less dangerous) answers, with its proudly-earned check mark preserved for posterity (unless the question author accepts a new answer) Note also, this would be available for answers that aren't accepted, but meet a certain criteria (which I'll talk about on MSE when I nail that down some more)
    – user50049
    Commented Jul 8, 2015 at 13:31
  • Woohoo for the Future direction. Can it include something towards addressing the questions that were never any good, would now be off-topic, are popular (votes and views) but have no genuine locatable (by the search-enginer visitor) value? Tags I use, the "All Time" questions on the Top Users screen are largely occupied by such rubbish. I asked a question about this recently (for COBOL as an example). Lo, the rubbish question I highlighted has gone, but one-at-a-time with a Meta question is considerable investment of time by lots of people. Would improve if there was something more targetted. Commented Jul 8, 2015 at 13:57
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    "Future directions? We need to find a way to gracefully deprecate answers that were once great but now get in the way, or are actively harmful." that would be amazing, this is something that has been bothering me for a long time. Being able to deal with those would be awesome. Commented Jul 8, 2015 at 14:12
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    haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer haltenhammer! haltenhammer! haltenhammer! haltenhammer!
    – user1228
    Commented Jul 8, 2015 at 14:28
  • Even more weight to votes won't stop the time. Just a crazy idea; what about some sort of expert approved visual flags that would fade out after some time and notify the expert to review the thread?
    – TLama
    Commented Jul 8, 2015 at 15:41
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    At risk of improperly jumping in before the MSE discussion, let me say that if only silver badge holders are going to be allowed to vote to deprecate answers, everyone should be able to flag them for those folks to review. The sheer number of answers required to get tag badges excludes very capable people who spend more time editing and curating than writing answers, yet those people will potentially have hugely valuable input.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 8, 2015 at 15:54
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    Then we should talk about the “original question tags”. I don’t like the idea that the effectiveness of this new feature should depend on something chosen by someone who doesn’t have to have any prerequisites, i.e might get effectively disabled if the questioner hopelessly mis-tagged the question originally (as the decision about whether an answer is up to date can only be made by experts of the real topic, not the ones of the wrong tags). That isn’t a problem for the dupehammer as there is still the ordinary close voting mechanism, but that suggests that the new feature requires similar.
    – Holger
    Commented Jul 9, 2015 at 10:05
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    @Mark Amery: it seems, you totally missed the point. “original question tags” implies that it doesn’t matter what edits you make to the tags. That’s how the dupehammer already works today. You can not fix the tags and then use the hammer.
    – Holger
    Commented Jul 9, 2015 at 13:41
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    Sometimes the dupe hammer comes along after a proposed dupe has been made, and confirms it. I wish there was more direct way to associate a comment in opposition of the close vote. Something where someone would click the close link to see votes, and see there was a vote against that explained how the proposed dupe was actually a different distinct question. Just as added information for a mod or a gold badger to consider before leveraging the hammer. Otherwise it has to go through a messy cycle of being closed and then proposed for reopening. Would help avoid mis-fires.
    – AaronLS
    Commented Jul 9, 2015 at 16:16
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    @TylerH The freedom to express an opinion without imposing it on others :) Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 2:46
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    @JonathanPotter: so you are now more careful than before when using your close votes. I call that a win. Don't vote to close when not sure, wether you can hide behind the rest of the community or not.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 7:03
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    @MartijnPieters The auto-generated description for a dupe vote is "Possible duplicate of...". Everything is open to interpretation. I feel comfortable voting to say "I think this is a dupe, what do a few other people think?". Except now I don't have that choice, I have to be absolutely certain. Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 7:11
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    @JonathanPotter: That comment is posted because someone was sure when they voted but others may still disagree. I'd hope the individual was still convinced about the vote. Please do apply that to your other votes too!
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2015 at 7:21

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