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Can we please delete the thread What is the single most influential book every programmer should read? For reasons unknown, it was made community wiki and locked by diamond mods.

It is the worst subjective nonsense I have ever seen on SO. The thread is explicitly off-topic as book recommendation, but also unclear, opinion-based and too broad.

Even if it was on-topic, many of the books listed are downright awful/harmful and plenty are not even about programming. Several of the book suggestions seem like genuine trolling or possibly vandalism.

I see no reason whatsoever why we need to keep this thread. Can we please nuke it from space?

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  • 23
    It has a historical lock because it has a history of deletions and undeletions. It was made CW long before that, to encourage collaborative editing.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 11:12
  • 24
    I see only a single reason to keep it: using it as an example of a question that should not be asked on SE. +1 for nuking from orbit, and I'd love to hear the arguments of the downvoters why a random list that includes Alice in Wonderland and similar nonsense should be preserved. Also, SICP is only #3 in the list, which is blasphemy!
    – l4mpi
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 11:23
  • 4
    That "Alice in Wonderland" entry has an obvious error in the author's name. Does that need correcting, or is it part of the whole "This be a bad question" experience?
    – Jongware
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 11:56
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    I thought we only kept the question because it is a museum piece. It's 7 years old after all.
    – Mr Lister
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 14:40
  • 13
    @BSMP: see Community-led deletionism: a protocol for sanity; a historical lock makes a post a museum piece; something that is a) off-topic and b) controversial (the community cannot decide wether or not to delete it) can be locked if after discussion (preferably here on Meta) the post is deemed preservable.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 17:54
  • 2
    @BSMP: wether or not the post is CW has no bearing on a historical lock. I was merely setting the record straight as to why both applied to the post.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 17:55
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    Well, now I know with great assurance why book rec questions are off-topic on SO! Commented May 28, 2015 at 18:29
  • 17
    That thread might have historical significance if you count nostalgia for the days of useless posts. There's no merit for keeping it based on the value of the content, though. The top-voted answer is literally a plain list of books, no value judgement, no commentary, simply a list of books. One can obtain identical content by browsing Amazon or GoodReads, plus those resources have commentary and rating to provide some rubric for choosing a good book versus a bad one. Commented May 28, 2015 at 18:52
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    Personally, my favorite part is the endless string of comments under the accepted answer, referring to "this" (singular) book.
    – jscs
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 19:05
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    It has at the very least 1 useful piece of info: To search: Use the search box in the upper-right corner. To search the answers of the current question, use inquestion:this.
    – Tim
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 19:12
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    But what search terms are going to give me useful results, @TimCastelijns? It's a search of very limited text; unless I'm looking for a particular book, it's hard to see that searching is going to get me better info than just browsing. And if I'm already looking for a particular book, I probably don't need this page.
    – jscs
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 19:16
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    For what it's worth, we kept that question as something to link to because we were tired of deleting the duplicates literally every single day. Commented May 28, 2015 at 19:39
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    @JoshCaswell I'm sure you noticed, but "this" is referring to Code Complete. It was the only book listed in the answer until someone added all the other books on Feb 21 '12. Pretty hilarious the way it turned out.
    – basher
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 20:11
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    Can you put a historical lock on a deleted question to prevent undeletion?
    – Jason C
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 20:13
  • 6
    @JasonC If it's deleted by a mod, it cannot be undeleted by non-mods.
    – Artjom B.
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 20:24

3 Answers 3

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I wanted to throw out a few observations that first hit me when I looked at this question:

  • There is no clearly defined topic. It's literally just as you say -- a list of books -- everything from language-specific to general programming to not even about programming. There's no organization and no real focus on anything in particular. Might as well just go to the book store.

  • Many of the books listed there have no authors or links to where you can find them. Sign posts directing people where to go are bad enough, but when all the signs have fallen off the post and are just laying on the ground, you might as well just take out the sign post.

  • Hardly any of the books have any description of what the book is about. The top-voted post has no information whatsoever. Books are great, but different users need different books depending on the specific skills they're trying to get and their level within the field. You don't want to send a beginner off to read an expert-level book that talks about advanced mechanics of programming.

We have a whole lot of information listed in that question, and none of it is really useful to anyone. The user still has to dig through it to locate things that could be potentially, maybe relevant to them, and then go do all the research themselves to figure out which book would be best for them to read. I would personally be offended if someone pointed me to that question after I asked them to recommend a programming book for me to read.


Update: I'm going to go ahead and delete the question for the reasons outlined above, and for another reason: there is a much, much better resource out there, available on Github:

Free Programming Books

While it only covers book which are available for free, it still has a vast list of books available and they're actually organized in a way that lets you find them easily. It's even available in multiple languages. I found that page via this linked question out of the sidebar, which I'm also deleting for the following reasons:

  • It's a huge violation of our "not an answer" policy, literally saying "Nope, we don't actually have anything here. Go here instead." While it might have made sense to keep it around for a little bit as a sign-post pointing to the new location (for those who were still going to the old one), a year and a half is plenty of time for those moves to happen and we shouldn't be responsible for permanently hosting a sign-post that just redirects users somewhere else. Even our migration stubs get automatically deleted after 30 days.

  • It already outranks us on Google. Great. It made it to the top. Sign-post successful. Let's get rid of ours now and let them be happy, and also prevent users from continuing on down the list on Google and running across a page that redirects them back to something they've already looked at.

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    I agree: there are a few nuggets among the dross, but the lack of organisation makes it near useless. Answers to specific questions like “What books do you recommend to learn X?” would be far more useful, though I get the impression that that might be considered too subjective for Stack Overflow. “X” could be many things: languages, methodologies, techniques, theories, could also specify a level.
    – PJTraill
    Commented May 28, 2015 at 23:22
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    646 answers, more than 2/3 deleted. If that question isn't one of the main points for the "no recommendation-questions"-policy... especially considering the individual answers quality. Commented May 30, 2015 at 23:40
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    The top-voted post HAD information, until a user hijacked it (the revision note actually contains the word "hijack"). I think that particular edit merits a stern moderator warning, actually.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented May 31, 2015 at 17:43
  • Clearly, the future of the book list is in the hands of the diamond mods. So maybe you guys can come up with a consensus and post it here, and I'll accept that as the answer. Unless the lock by Jarrod Dixon is already the mod consensus, that is.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 1, 2015 at 6:56
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    That was inappropriate. It was extremely popular, locked and doing no harm. Commented Jun 2, 2015 at 22:31
  • @BenVoigt - I agree! The user essentially hijacked the entire post. Without that list of junk, and with the original book there (suggested by Joel) it made more sense as it had an image, a link, and an explanation. In fact, the top two pages of answers seemed to follow the pattern of image, link, and explanation and I find it hard to believe that someone could come to the conclusion that there were no "sign-posts" left. I really hope this was discussed at a level beyond just this one moderator. I don't see how a locked, closed, historically significant post was "poisonous".
    – Travis J
    Commented Jun 4, 2015 at 19:40
  • There is no reason to delete this question, my proposal is just delete all answers excepts first and leave it in this locked state. There are a lot of links to this post over internet when developers recommend to another devs what to read. It's useful, you can't reject this. Maybe it's need some refactoring for book lists, but not deletion. Commented Jun 16, 2015 at 5:57
  • It's a wonderful resource, but again, sullied by questions like the book list
    – random
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 14:53
-1

I'm restoring this. I know, call me crazy, but I'm very disinclined to continue deleting evidence that programmers really want this kind of content and we've yet to come up with a suitable place for them to put it.

I completely agree, this doesn't belong in Q&A format, because Q&A format won't ever do decent enough justice for a curated list of resources such as books you might find interesting if you're interested in algorithms, or perl, or C++, etc.

The amount of views, amount of votes and amount of favorites say this is valuable and we need to have it. The question you raised says this is a really great example of how to do Q&A wrong.

I'm writing up an entry scope for an initiative revamp the tag wiki system to facilitate curated lists of books per tag in a manner that:

  • Lets the community list books and great things about them, while maintaining the relevancy and accuracy of the list
  • Provides some rep and possibly up-to-silver badge rewards as a motivation (not much, but a little)
  • Makes the content easy to discover for folks that have shown that they're interested in a particular set of tags (perhaps surfacing it in the sidebar in a manner folks are unlikely to find annoying)

... and maybe some other stuff. It'll be part of the site, it'll be useful by fixing the problems Q&A presents to these sorts of lists, and it's mostly out of your face unless you're looking for it.

Expect a much fuller / baked idea on MSE in about two weeks, as other sites would definitely appreciate this functionality as well.

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  • That sounds like a great idea! I'm looking forward to seeing the details.
    – Jeremy Banks Mod
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 6:57
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    "The amount of views, amount of votes and amount of favorites say this is valuable and we need to have it." - having many views/votes/favs does in no way correlate to the content being valuable or a neccessity for the site. Please remember that popular != good. You could use the same argument for restoring the "favourite programmer jokes" post or many others of the top deleted SO questions. Programmers also seem to really want this kind of content, that's still no reason why it should stay on SO. Very disappointed with your decision.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 10:07
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    Or do you by chance mean "valuable" in terms of ad revenue? Because I can certainly see that a question with ~800k views and a high google ranking is a monetary gain for SO. The content itself however is not valuable, as has been described in this meta question, animusons answer, and various comments under the question - you could even consider it outright harmful.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 11:24
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    @l4mpi I can understand why you'd fear that, but in the three years, I've been here (and pretty surely before) we've truly never made a decision about what should be open/closed/deleted/featured/made-into-a-tee-shirt based on an ad revenue consideration. But even if it's hard believe take my word for it, consider this: this question has ~800k views ever. We get more than 600 million every MONTH. Even if you added up ALL the closed questions this popular, they wouldn't pay for Joel's gourmet coffee habit.
    – Jaydles StaffMod
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 11:53
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    @Jaydles I didn't think so either; it was a wild guess as to what would be "valuable" about that crappy post. As I said, there are plenty of arguments here as to why the content of the answers to the question under discussion are worthless; none of which have in any way be countered by Tims answer here. So it seems like the decision was made based on popularity alone, which is arguably even worse than it being a monetary decision.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 11:56
  • @l4mpi There's another distinction, books on programming aren't mindless fun. I'm not going to spend developer time on something that doesn't potentially make people better at programming. I understand, very well that Popular != good, I'm the one that closed half of these along with Robert Harvey when we were elected and it became an issue. Making a place for this stuff where it can be properly curated isn't harmful. When that's set up, I will happily delete the question again.
    – user50049
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 12:35
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    And again, I'm not saying we need to have this question, I agree that it's not optimal for many reasons. What I'm saying is, I'm not deleting another one like this until we have some place to put what useful information it contains.
    – user50049
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 12:37
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    I do agree with creating better options for curating stuff like this in the tag wiki, I just don't get why you feel the need to undelete the question until that's finished. As stated multiple times by many people, the content of that question is simply not useful in its current form. But at least you've clarified that you don't intend to have it stay undeleted forever. Looking forward to the day you're finished creating the tag-based solution and the post is gone again.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 12:41
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    You could status-on-it these when you get around to the new feature meta.stackexchange.com/questions/122121/… meta.stackexchange.com/questions/122197/…
    – random
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 14:35
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    Maybe we can create a sister site crapflood.stackexchange.com where we can move all these threads without losing precious ad revenue?
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 29, 2015 at 6:18
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    It's been two years. Can we please delete this garbage once again, since it will be another 6-8 years before stackoverflow.com/bookrecs enters public beta? Commented Jun 15, 2017 at 5:48
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    Did the "much fuller / baked idea" that @TimPost promised ever materialize?
    – user149341
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 21:06
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    @TimPost, seeing we are about 4 years down the road, (and 4 years >> 6-8 weeks) your new feature would definetly be in place now. So can we please get rid of this horrible question?
    – Luuklag
    Commented May 14, 2019 at 12:18
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    Almost 6 years later and this terrible question is still here. Should we just give up on anything being done about it? Commented Feb 25, 2021 at 20:11
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    @JohnMontgomery if you didn't get the memo, you should pretty much give up on anything SO related that does not directly correlate with new user signups or unique visit counts. Give it a year or two and the question will probably be featured in an SE blog post and unlocked...
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 26, 2021 at 15:33
-10

While you are all correct and the question is primary opinion based and off-topic because it's asking for books, there are other factors that should be taken into account:

  1. The question has ~731k views;
  2. The question was marked as favorite by 5777 users;

I've bumped into that question even before I was a member of SO, when I was looking for books not really directed to programmers, but to the environment that surrond us.

Some of you have said that the most voted answer was just a list of books and you are correct. Nevertheless this single off-topic (with today's rules) question has provided me with invaluable knowledge.

I've found books such as Peopleware or The Inmates Are Running The Asylum because of this question. These books are not directly related to programming so I had very little chance of getting to know them without this question.

So I say (and probably the other 33 downvoters - but that's just a guess): give this question a break, keep it for historical motives or whatever reason you can live with. At the end of the day, as off-topic as the question is (again, with today's rules), this still provides quality content to whoever finds it.

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    StackOverflow has a mission, and it's not to help you find books which are not directly related to programmer but still interest you.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented May 31, 2015 at 4:19
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    If you like, take the book list (with an appropriate citation of SO) and create a "Good books to read if you're into programming and/or computers, or even if you aren't, whatever" blog post. It'll still help people looking for books to read, and it won't clog the pipes around here.
    – MattDMo
    Commented May 31, 2015 at 4:49
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    @BenVoigt its mission is also not to break the internet by turning a page with substantial external visibility into a 404 :)
    – hobbs
    Commented May 31, 2015 at 5:48
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    @hobbs well, that's not our fault that the content became stale and poisonous to us.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 31, 2015 at 12:29
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    @Braiam to say that it did is absurd exaggeration.
    – hobbs
    Commented May 31, 2015 at 16:49
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    Number of views is easy to get when you add a ton of random spam to a page and you are a site that Google ranks high in searches. Search for "programming books" and that page pops up as number 7.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 1, 2015 at 6:35
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    Also, I'm glad you found some random books you liked, but this is not a self-realization site, so that argument is quite irrelevant... Indeed I bet you would have much higher chances at finding those non-programming books elsewhere than on a programming site where book recommendations are explicitly off-topic. Would you also visit the library, not to look for books, but to ask for help with your programming problems?
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 1, 2015 at 6:45
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    @Lundin As I've said, it is off-topic with the rules of nowadays. I have a hard time removing old questions because they are now offtopic, but that is on me. However, I compare this to burn all the books 1000 years old, just because they don't make sense nowadays. But you are right, the question is offtopic and should probably be deleted if the community reaches a consensus. I'm just saying that at the end of the day, this is just one question and if it stays I won't be worried about that (as there must be others in the same conditions).
    – Luís Cruz
    Commented Jun 1, 2015 at 10:35
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    @milz It is only 4 years old and therefore of very limited historical value to mankind... And it didn't even make any sense when book recommendations were on-topic.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 1, 2015 at 10:54
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    Now the inmates are running the asylum :(
    – Adam Arold
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 14:24
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    Let's add some kittens and p0rn to frontpage then? It will amount millions of views and will be bookmarked by hundred thousands.
    – Kromster
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 5:20

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