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This is the description of the ansible tag:

Ansible is a model-driven configuration management, multi-node deployment/orchestration, and remote task execution system. Uses SSH by default, so there is no special software has to be installed on the nodes you manage. Ansible can be extended in any language.

Likewise for puppet and chef. There are something like 1k questions with the ansible tag, 1.8k with puppet, 2.8k with chef, and a few with salt-stack. I wonder if serverfault would be a more appropriate site for these.

This has been asked before. The answers seem to imply that these questions are mostly off topic. Go figure how to clean them up. I used to flag them each time I got across one of these, but now that I found out there are 5k of them I see it doesn't make much sense.

Maybe a good feature would be to put up a warning each time a user tries to put the tag on a question. Update: Assuming this is not possible, this paragraph could be added to the tag description:

Note that questions about ansible/puppet/chef are likely to be off-topic. Questions on professional server, networking, or related infrastructure administration are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly involve programming or programming tools. Ansible/puppet/chef are not programming tools. Server Fault or Super User may be better places to ask your question.

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    Related: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/294879/… May 21, 2015 at 12:09
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    Chef provides full Ruby -- in all its glory -- not some minimal DSL. Questions which come up when using Chef are thus quite frequently more Ruby questions than they are system administration questions. May 22, 2015 at 16:18
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    @CharlesDuffy I guess there is "Ruby code that happens to interact with Chef" vs "Chef proper" question distinction
    – Sled
    May 22, 2015 at 17:05
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    nginx is even worse - 13k questions, and a much better fit for serverfault. May 23, 2015 at 6:34

4 Answers 4

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If it's about programming Ansible / Puppet / Chef / Salt to do a specific task, it's on topic. The fact that they are all (in one sense or another) declarative languages for which it is easy to write language extensions doesn't matter. Otherwise, all -related questions would be off-topic here, as would discussions about constraint-based languages like , and questions about configuration issues with logging frameworks like .

There is a lot of overlap in these tags with ServerFault too, but that's just the way of the network. Different communities already have the same problem. Should I ask my bash-related question on Stackoverflow, Unix and Linux, Ask Ubuntu, Ask Different, ServerFault, or SuperUser for example? It depends on the specific context of my question (does it fit the standards of the community) and which community I find the easiest to understand.

There are plenty of off-topic entries in these tags, but that's because they are (in general):

  • Too broad: "How do I set up my CI stack using "
  • Primarily opinion-based: "How do I convince my team to do CI with "
  • Requests for recommendations: "What's the best solution for deployment of secrets to an environment in "

Those sorts of questions need to be dealt with in the same way as any other off-topic question. Comment, downvote, vote-to-close (as the situation warrants).

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It seems not very different from any other variety of scripting questions. Consider the bash tag: we get a lot of questions about command-line arguments for find, but those are not programming questions.

As a rule of thumb:

  • If you need help putting your command together, it's a computer administration / software usage question, not programming.
  • If you know the one-off command and need some help automating it / adding complex logic, such as loops and conditional to iterate and filter data structures to get variable data that should appear in the command, it's an on-topic programming question. Information about the data structure containing the variables and the command template which will vary according to the data must be included in the question.
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  • Those are reasonable rules of thumbs, but the problem remains for questions that are about computer administration within the context of software development (i.e. outside the scope of Server Fault, and probably too specialised for Super User).
    – Bruno
    May 24, 2015 at 16:40
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    @Bruno: There is no off-topic reason for "too specialized". Computer administration questions are on topic at Super User, even if that computer hosts developer tools.
    – Ben Voigt
    May 24, 2015 at 16:57
  • What I had in mind was more along the lines of setting up the environment into which the application runs: e.g. which options will the developer setting up the services used in development need to activate on the database server (or other service) to enable the application being developed to work, what impact will that have w.r.t. to the sysadmin team once in production, and so on. Many of these questions are ultimately sysadmin-related questions, but they are absolutely relevant to the development process, and don't really belong on SU. (I would include the "devops" questions in that.)
    – Bruno
    May 24, 2015 at 18:01
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Solution -- devops.stackexchange.com

Stack Exchange Q&A site proposal: DevOps

However, I would consider these to be programmer tools. For instance, if there were hotdogs.stackexchange.com, would buns be off topic?

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    I think if we're going to have more and more specific SE sites nibbling at the margins of each others topic spaces, we need to look at how migration works / who it's accessible to - e.g. should users over X reputation be able to propose migration to any site, not just those in the shortlist on the close dialog?
    – IMSoP
    May 22, 2015 at 16:32
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    xkcd.com/927
    – Zombo
    May 23, 2015 at 4:28
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    @IMSoP I don't think it's just about migration, it's also about (a) wasting time arguing whether or not a question should be on SO, can be on SO but would be better on DevOps, or should have been on DevOps in the first place, and (b) making knowledgeable users monitor and repeat similar stuff on yet one more site. Sure, we can link accounts on SE, but following similar topics on multiple sites can become too time consuming.
    – Bruno
    May 24, 2015 at 18:05
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Firstly, it can be argued that the tools you mention actually provide domain-specific languages (DSL). Hence, they can be considered as programming questions to some extent. Of course, you'll also have a number of questions asking about how to program extensions for these tools. Again, these can definitely be programming questions.

Secondly, saying it's suitable for another site on Stack Exchange, doesn't imply at all that it's not suitable for Stack Overflow (for example, many SQL questions could be fine both on Stack Overflow and on DBA.SE). In addition, you'll also find that Server Fault is a community that can be quite hostile to questions that sound like they are not about system administration in a professional context, i.e. they more or less a finished product that is ready to be deployed and configured, not necessarily something that is in development (which I guess is fair enough, it's a different site).

Thirdly, there's a historical dimension in the development of these sites. It all started with Stack Overflow, trying to define itself in the process, so it has always been encompassing a broader variety of topics. In contrast, Server Fault was started a bit later, with a quite specific purpose from the beginning.

Besides these points, I get the impression that there are different kinds of software engineers: those who stick to their language and platform (and never want or have to worry themselves about how the environment they use is set up), and those who are more curious (or have to know) about the environment in which their applications run.

I'm not sure how Stack Overflow users, or software engineers in general, fit in proportion into each category, but it seems quite clear that there is a sizeable number of people in the latter category: not only do they have to program their application, but they have to know how to run it. That doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be in charge of setting up the production environment, but they'll need to have a fairly good idea how certain features of the other systems they're using need to be configured to be able to interact with them from their applications (e.g. which options to enable on the SQL server or on the web server). Often, this will involve a step whereby the developers themselves deploy and configure their own development environment (or at least portions of it).

In this context, while it makes sense for a community like Server Fault to be more strict and expect to deal finished products, it often make sense for software developers (to which Stack Overflow is targeted) to be able to investigate the ground they're working on, and ask questions about it. Too strict a compartmentalisation never helps the overall projects you may be working on. Therefore, as I've said here before, I think so sysadmin-related questions can be on topic on Stack Overflow (it's often quite clear that they come from a developer).

Another possibility would be to have an additional DevOps Stack Exchange site for this type of questions. Although it's not a bad idea in principle, I'd be a bit concerned about the fragmentation into multiple sites. I'm not sure people who would have the required skills and knowledge to participate on such sites would have the time to spend on yet on another SE site. (This would probably increase the number of meta-questions about each question that is could fit on either SO or DevOps, with endless discussions, close/re-open votes, and so on, which end up just being a distraction compared with the more interesting matter of the question itself.) SO, SF, Security.SE, Webmasters.SE and even SU can already have a bit of overlap as it is.

Bottom line: if the question is sufficiently good, i.e. quality and other off-topic criteria than their subject matter, and if it can clearly apply to a software development context, you don't have to close it as off-topic. If you don't like such questions, move on, let other users participate in that Q&A. You don't have to look at ansible, puppet, chef questions any more than you have to look at java, vb.net or php questions if that's not your thing. These questions are generally well tagged as what they are, so you're not tricked into wasting time reading them. Every question doesn't have to be potentially interesting for every SO member.

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    The guideline (enshrined in the FAQ) is that it must be unique to software development, not merely "can apply to a software development context". And for good reason. Virtually every question on Super User could "apply to a software development context". If any computer question were permitted here as long as the asker appends "and next week after I get this working, I'm going to install Visual Studio" (or Eclipse, or whatever), it would result in a disastrous loss of focus. So no, merely having some connection to software development is not enough.
    – Ben Voigt
    May 24, 2015 at 16:56
  • @BenVoigt There's quite a few questions that are clearly about how to set up whatever underlying service you need for your application to work, for example "I'm developing an application that needs to access XYZ on the machine or get such and such information on from the web server it's running on, what do I need to do to turn this on". Being overly restrictive on this sort of questions just doesn't help anyone and certainly doesn't make SO any better.
    – Bruno
    May 24, 2015 at 17:56
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    so because I write software using the Win32 API, I can ask about any problems related to Windows? Virus removal and so forth, because it prevents my program and/or my development tools from running? Sorry no, that's a complete non starter.
    – Ben Voigt
    May 24, 2015 at 18:05
  • @BenVoigt That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that if you write software using the Win32 API, which also need feature X activated in the registry, or that will rely heavily on a user-instance of SQL Express (for example), asking the questions that explain the impact of doing so or other sysadmin requirements, should be on topic, since it's immensely relevant to the possibly development paths, and could prove to be a show-stopper in some cases (if this is incompatible with policies or features into which the application you're developing will be deployed).
    – Bruno
    May 24, 2015 at 18:09
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    More specifically, regarding this particular question, questions about ansible, puppet and chef are generally very much related to the whole development/testing/deployment cycle. While some questions may look like "sysadmin" questions, the whole process should be taken into account.
    – Bruno
    May 24, 2015 at 18:14

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