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I just have noticed1, that several tags for online code judge engines like , , seemingly were burninated on SO.

I'm pretty sure, that at least the was there, since I've once posted a tag wiki improvement (think I did the same for later as well).

Well, though I don't think that the kind of questions tagged with these mentioned above, will usually provide any good value for SO.
But the tags alone shouldn't be burninated IMHO.

These still may point out for bad questions (user introduced or not), that should be closed because we can't really tell finally why these online code judge engines reject posted code (That was the essence of my edits to the tag wiki info).

Not finally sure, but you could think of such tags like a "honeypot" indicator, for probably bad questions, and it's stated in the tag wiki info, why it may considered a bad question. I've been watching about these tags, and kept setup awareness regarding the OJ engine related points of failure.

Don't get me wrong please:
I don't think that questions about code posted to online code judge engines are generally wrong, or frowned upon for SO somehow.

But many of them just end up with the intrinsics of these kind of engines, which usually aren't disclosed. Thus such questions inherently can't be answered concisely.

So are there certain criteria I've missed about valid tags, and why were these mentioned tags burninated actually?


1) I just tried to add the tag for a question that clearly stated the relation.

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    Well, that was another fine hack-up job, wasn't it? This time it was a posse organized by the [python] tag. Press the red button when you can figure out why Python programmers don't like coding contests that emphasize speed. Did they actually get rid of questions about [project-euler]? Well, not really. Great, SO users will post these questions all over again. This vigilante tar-and-feathers justice needs to be stopped. May 7, 2015 at 22:00
  • @HansPassant I agree, burning the tag won't solve the problem beforehand. We can play possum, and state it's unclear asking, or 'too broad', but sorting out related to a tag and an explanation looks much better experience for the OP IMHO. May 7, 2015 at 22:06
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    There are plenty of potential good questions about Project Euler, and even more bad ones. The tag doesn't help the good ones at all. If the questioner only wants hints instead of a complete answer, they can say so in the question. (And press the blue button when you can figure out why C++ programmers like coding contests whose first ~30 tests are small enough that getting a 10:1 speedup when you could have gotten a quadratic-to-linear speedup more easily seems to be a good idea. :P)
    – abarnert
    May 7, 2015 at 22:29
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    @abarnert "The tag doesn't help the good ones at all. ..." My point is, that it helps to spot and triage out the majority of bad questions appearing with this (or other OJ engine related) tag. Thus it shouldn't be burned. May 7, 2015 at 22:36
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    Well, almost all meta-tags are good honeypots like that. Homework certainly was. Why, if all other meta-tags are burninated, should this one not be? (And is that one of the four questions for Passover?)
    – abarnert
    May 7, 2015 at 22:39
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    @πάνταῥεῖ If you are really concerned about a honeypot, just go to the late answers list. Part of the reason we killed homework was because people were using it as a honeypot instead of paying attention to the actual post. May 7, 2015 at 23:08

3 Answers 3

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Here's the related request: Burninate Project Euler

Basically, these were judged to be meta-tags (similar to ) and thus destroyed. Personally, I agree, the group/organization looking at the code does not modify the question or help categorize it in any way.

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  • THX a lot for the link, I've seemingly missed the same process was applied for [tag:spoj and [tag:codechefj. I agree, that's similar for what's going on with homework, though these particular OJ tags make the questions more specific. Question is finally, what makes up the criteria for valid tags (duplicates welcome)? May 7, 2015 at 21:37
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    @πάνταῥεῖ If you read Martijn's answer carefully, those were cleaned up at the same time (even though they weren't requested). As to your other question, this is a good place to start: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/250933/… May 7, 2015 at 21:39
  • Changed the title and some body a bit :) ... May 7, 2015 at 21:48
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are there certain criteria I've missed about valid tags?

Yes. Valid tags describe the software engineering question, not the person (or website) asking the question.

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  • " not the person (or website)" So we should consider OJ engines being persons asking questions that are unsuitable for SO (even if tanslated to pseudo code)? May 7, 2015 at 23:10
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    @πάνταῥεῖ I think that is not a context that you should use to evaluate the question. Is a good question, useful and within the scope? The tag shouldn't tell you that, but the question itself.
    – Braiam
    May 7, 2015 at 23:37
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    @πάνταῥεῖ: I'm saying that a question does not need to be given tags meaning "asked by my boss" or "asked for my own curiosity" or "asked by my professor" or "asked by an online competition". That's not the purpose of tagging. I said nothing about whether a question that was originally asked by competition organizers is acceptable or not, I said you do not tag it by where you found it.
    – Ben Voigt
    May 7, 2015 at 23:55
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    @BenVoigt: And to add to that: Sometimes that information definitely is useful… but it's rarely if ever useful in a vacuum. In the cases where it makes a difference, the reason why it makes a difference (e.g., the online question specifies a max input of 999999, or your boss signed off on the spec to the outsource team so the interchange format can't be changed) has to be in the question anyway, just "online competition" or "asked by boss" on its own wouldn't tell you anything.
    – abarnert
    May 8, 2015 at 0:06
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    @abarnert: It can go in the body of the question, certainly. But not tags.
    – Ben Voigt
    May 8, 2015 at 0:11
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    Unlike "this is extremely urgent you must respond today" (add three random spelling errors of your choice) which belongs in neither tags nor question body.
    – Ben Voigt
    May 8, 2015 at 0:12
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    @BenVoigt: Yes, that's my point: the only times the tag would be relevant are times when you'd need to put more information in the body anyway, making the tag unnecessary. So, the tag is never needed. (But "this is extremely urgent you must respond today" is useful if followed by "i dont see why a siet for programmer shuld not let me ask any qestin about program i want who are u to tell me rules".)
    – abarnert
    May 8, 2015 at 0:24
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    @abamert: But "you'd need to put more information in the body anyway" is not the litmus test for whether a tag is useful or not. Tags should link similar questions and answers, which involve the same approach to slight variations on a problem. For example, if I had a real-world need to partition subset-sums, whether an answer would be helpful to me would not be determined by whether that answer was written in the context of a programming contest challenge or not.
    – Ben Voigt
    May 8, 2015 at 0:40
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    @BenVoigt: I read the suggestion here as effectively agreeing that the tag isn't useful for normal reasons, but it still useful for some nonstandard reason. My point is that the implied nonstandard reason (that we get some extra useful information about the question itself from the tag) doesn't really help us anyway. But I may have misread the suggestion, in which case, <Emily Litella/>.
    – abarnert
    May 8, 2015 at 3:23
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    @abarnart I think you're correct that the question says that. OP mentions trying to add these tags to questions. My answer is that they are not valid tags. If you feel that is unclear I can edit.
    – Ben Voigt
    May 8, 2015 at 3:31
  • @BenVoigt: OK, I think your answer already covers what he actually asked, and it's not worth trying to twist it into answering what he really wants. A separate answer may be worthwhile for that, which I'll try to write, but your should stand exactly as it is.
    – abarnert
    May 8, 2015 at 23:00
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Your question asks is "Are these valid tags"? I think Ben Voigt's answer covers that perfectly: No, they're not.

But from your comments (and the fact that you tried to add such a tag after getting that answer), it sounds like that isn't what you're asking at all. What you really want to know is, "If these aren't valid tags, but they would be incredibly useful, shouldn't we make an exception, or even change our whole notion of what makes tags valid?"

First, (as Ben Voigt also explains) the whole point of tags is to link questions, allow searching within a subject area, etc., not to provide extra information for a single question in isolation. Otherwise, we'd just use completely free-form tags. But again, let's go past that; maybe some tag would be so incredibly useful…

Your first argument is that it's a great honeypot. But most metatags are honeypot tags. Homework was the ultimate honeypot. We already have plenty of experience with honeypot tags, and they don't help in general. (As BradleyDotNET points out, they actually hurt: "Part of the reason we killed homework was because people were using it as a honeypot instead of paying attention to the actual post.")

Without the honeypot argument, you can make a half-hearted argument that the tag provides so much information about the question that it's worth having even though it violates our very notion of what a tag is… but that doesn't stick; project-euler adds less information than a typical valid tag like java or mysql or threading, not more. Far from meeting the extraordinary standard that would be needed to add an exception or change the whole concept of tags, these tags don't even meet the ordinary standard that would be applied if they were valid.

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