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Recently there have been some very lengthy discussion threads on metaSO on downvoting. Askers have really concerns about downvoting. At the same time downvoters support their stand by saying downvoting is essential to maintain quality of this site. There are various solutions suggested on this problem. Both, short term and long term, complex and simple solutions.

The main disadvantage of making votes immediately visible is, it could possibly make experts prejudiced about the question by looking at its vote score. Especially if its downvoted they may think 'Why should I bother? It's already been downvoted' Thus questioner and (future viewers as well) could miss few more good answers/comments to their question. Also, having less experts have visited, the question will not have accurate score.

As an simple and quick solution, can we please hide question's real score for some time so that they can't see it has downvotes ?

If clicked on up or downvote button, SO might want to display message similar to 'Thanks for your vote. It will be visible after XXX time.' (Now the correct time limit needs to be decided, weather its good to hide score for 2 hours or 2 days etc. But I guess those all are implementation details and development experts at SO are best to decide on those details)

This way, we'll have maximum users visit the question and thus score of a post can be made more accurate as we'll have more people reviewed it.

(Just my two cents in solving this big issue)

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  • 31
    Saving experts time by letting them avoid low quality questions is not a "disadvantage" of down voting. May 9, 2014 at 4:41
  • 2
    It's not clear who you want to display downvotes to, and why. If a question has a negative score, everyone already knows that it has at least 1 downvote. Furthermore, users with 1000 rep or more can choose to see exact vote counts, if they wish.
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 4:46
  • 5
    @Andrew what if an expert is the first person who downvotes the question, thereby saving other experts the trouble of also having to view the question?
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 4:48
  • 14
    @Andrew are you trying to hide downvotes from "experts"? Is that what your feature-request is? If so, then it's not going to happen. The whole point of voting is to save other people time and effort by very quickly signaling, with a reasonable degree of accuracy, how well-written a question is, so that users don't have to waste time on poorly written questions.
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 4:55
  • 7
    @Andrew what kind of "good answers" do you expect to come out of a bad question? More often than not, bad questions do not have great answers that benefit anyone other than the original asker of the question.
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 4:55
  • 4
    What is the tradeoff here? Trading off answering a poor question in favor of answering a good one. Time is finite. Keep in mind that no one's forcing experts to disregard downvoted questions - downvotes are signposts. May 9, 2014 at 4:58
  • 5
    @Andrew just because an answer has a lot of upvotes, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a great answer, that it's a useful answer, only that it's a correct answer. In fact, on bad questions, that's exactly what upvotes mean. Bad questions, for the most post, do not encourage great answers. No one is going to benefit from those types of answers other than the question poster.
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 5:00
  • 6
    Stack Overflow is not a help-forum. It's a Question and Answer site, and is meant to help a lot of people, not just one.
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 5:06
  • 5
    @Andrew: I'm not a sheep. I don't ignore a question because someone else downvoted it. I ignore it because it's not a good question. The downvotes are just a symptom of the same problem that causes questions to be ignored and/or closed.
    – cHao
    May 9, 2014 at 5:16
  • 2
    'Quality' is perception. A question on science might be 'bad quality' for a scientist working in NASA at the same time for a teacher teaching in small school it could be a good quality question. But why the scientist would want to shout and tell everyone (including the teacher) that the question is bad and that its not worth to read through ?
    – Atul
    May 9, 2014 at 5:19
  • 3
    It sounds like you're against downvotes entirely, Andrew - you seem to argue against the very reason they're here. Valid position, though you'd find a lot of opposition against it. May 9, 2014 at 5:20
  • 13
    @Andrew the quality of a question is not relative. A bad question is a bad question, period, no matter who is reading it. Also, "Stack Overflow is a question and answer site for professional and enthusiast programmers.". It's a site for experts. This is not a help-forum for help-vampires who ask basic questions that could have been solved on their own if they had put a little more effort into the problem themselves first.
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 5:22
  • 3
    I do not see the votes on this question. Is it a bug or a feature?
    – devnull
    May 9, 2014 at 5:23
  • 4
    @Andrew if you want to go ask questions on a Question and Answer site that doesn't vote on questions, then I recommend that you ask them on Quora instead. Or heck, just go to an actual forum somewhere and ask your question.
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 5:37
  • 6
    @Andrew: SO is not Facebook. We have upvotes and downvotes. And we expect both to count for something. (Just so it's said, though, you know how many times i've gotten annoyed over Facebook's lack of a "dislike" button?)
    – cHao
    May 9, 2014 at 6:13

3 Answers 3

24

There's a pretty serious flaw with this suggestion. Consider what would happen if we implement this idea, then i cast a downvote on a new question.

What should the next person visiting the question see?

  • If they see nothing, they'd know there's something weird about the votes on that question -- and a quick trip over to mSO would explain it. So now someone knows anyway that the question has been downvoted, and you've gained nothing -- but given up the ability to show that it's only been downvoted once. (And no, before you even go there: a "hide/show votes" box for the question's owner will never happen.)

  • If they see 0, the system is flat-out lying. It's rather like stuffing a ballot box, and the voting system itself starts to feel a bit shady.

I understand not liking downvotes. But they happen, and they usually happen for a reason. And it's pretty myopic to make the site lie to users because you want more "experts" answering a question despite someone already finding issues with it.

The more likely outcome will simply be more downvotes on the question, from the people who would have skipped over it had you not convinced SO to trick them into reading it. Or from those who would have abstained or even upvoted if they could see when a question had already taken "enough" or "too much" punishment, respectively.

1
  • 5
    Your point about getting more downvotes is so true! That's exactly what would happen! Then the original poster will get question-banned very quickly, so everyone ends up losing anyways :P
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 6:17
11

Let's accept this premise at face value:

The main disadvantage of downvoting is, it demotivates experts from looking at the question by thinking 'its already been downvoted'.

So instead of letting them see that a question has been downvoted, which they would skip (because they are demotivated), they'll see a question with a score of 0, which they'll look at (because they are not demotivated). So they check the question out and find that it is an absolute piece of crap. They downvote and perhaps vote to close. Oh, and they'll notice immediately that their downvote has no immediate effect on the total score of the question. How motivating! And they move on to another question which was downvoted but whose real score is still invisible.

This way of doing things would have the net effect of demotivating experts from coming to the site at all.

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  • 1
    "it is an absolute piece of crap" or may be they find that it is absolute great? (perception is relative, you see). "Their downvote has no immediate effect on the total score of the question" obviously yes. But why it would demotivate them? Because once its implemented and documented, may be SO can display relevant message after voting that the score is going to visible after two days. Still by downvoting or upvoting they can do their duty.
    – Atul
    May 9, 2014 at 11:50
  • 1
    @Andrew, the one who has duties is the questioner. And failing on them translates into downvotes that are real-time feedback for everybody. No, but thanks, your proposal is flawed.
    – brasofilo
    May 9, 2014 at 12:19
  • 8
    @Andrew it sounds like you want people to look at questions that might be OK. Maybe it has some downvotes, but maybe it's decent enough to get a few upvotes too, if only enough people look at it. We don't want questions that might be OK. We want great questions that are unambiguously great. Write good questions. Questions are often downvoted because they're poorly written, so just write well-written, well-researched questions.
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 19:55
  • @Andrew so you didn't really explain it clearly and honestly up-front in your original question, but it sounds like you want to do something like temporarily hiding a question score, like what reddit does.
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 20:27
  • 2
    @Andrew Reddit does this for a different purpose than what your goal is: reddit wants to stop mass-sheep voting ("the bandwagon effect"), you want more people to look at a post and score it more accurately, we want to avoid people having to look at posts altogether. An argument can be made that the score of a post can be made more accurate by having more people review it, but please note that that is a very different goal from why we even have post scores and votes in the first place.
    – user456814
    May 9, 2014 at 20:29
  • @Cupcake: "score of a post can be made more accurate by having more people review it" yes that's precisely is my stand behind posting this question. If SO has different goal altogether in having votes, that's perfect. Please can you post this as an answer so that I can accept. Will be probably helpful for those who come here in future.
    – Atul
    May 10, 2014 at 1:18
  • @Andrew what I posted isn't really good enough to be an answer, I'm just going to leave it as a comment. If you want to revise your question to be clearer about what you're trying to propose, then maybe we can have a more productive conversation about it. Or, if you give me a few days, I can help you revise your question (as best as I can).
    – user456814
    May 10, 2014 at 2:10
  • @Cupcake: Many thanks for positive consideration towards the question. Just now I've edited the question and have tried explaining and making the point more clear. I have't now emphasized on downvote as it could jeopardize the discussion. So I've made it generic for 'voting' as such. Please feel free to edit if you think something is still not clear/elaborated.
    – Atul
    May 10, 2014 at 8:46
  • @Andrew I'm sorry, but I'm just not going to have time to devote to this anymore. You're on your own. If you want people to take your proposal more seriously next time, you need to be completely honest about what it is that you're trying to do. If you have a friend who can write English very well, have him or her review your question before posting it next time, not so much for minor grammar and punctuation issues, but for how well you expressed your idea in the first place. It will help a lot next time.
    – user456814
    May 10, 2014 at 8:57
  • @Cupcake: It's not about honesty. Its mostly because I just didn't given complete thought about it before I post. More I had focused on only from downvote perspective. But later (after getting comments here) I realized its better if overall voting could be hidden for some time (till the question gets enough visibility).
    – Atul
    May 11, 2014 at 9:34
  • @Andrew OK, I believe you. You could try to make another feature request proposing the new idea, but you need to make your argument clearly, because you should expect strong opposition to it at first. Back up your argument by pointing out how Reddit hides votes temporarily to prevent mass sheep voting. Good luck.
    – user456814
    May 11, 2014 at 9:38
-1

The easiest way to address the previous answers' concern and OP's proposal is to hide the score from only the asker for a few days.

The concerns like demotivating experts from coming to the site and What should the next person visiting the question see? are not valid as the content rating/voting system is in place and viewable by experts and the others(say, with a minimum rep of 105).

This also addresses concerns like

Leaving a comment accompanying a downvote can lead to negative consequences, like revenge downvoting and even off-site harassment.

Comment system and Voting system Independence: Because the vote is only provided to the asker after a few days, the comment won't be tied to the vote by time(OP won't be able to guess the downvoter just from the commented time).

  • Comments form a system of providing voluntary feedback to the poster and

  • Voting form a system of providing voluntary feedback to future readers

They don't mix.

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