-9

Compare this 2 questions:

What is catcomplete in jQuery's autocomplete plugin?

and

Define: What is a HashSet?

What is the meaning of the 'aria-describedby' property?

https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=What+is+the+meaning

Compare the questions I linked. One got downvoted for lack of effort in googling, the other got upvoted. Googling for hashset was actually very easy, while answering the other by googling was impossible. So I get confused on the commens which are reported here in cursive. We can find many reasons to close one and upvote the other. But in this discussion I would like to focus just on one which is very well cleared by some comments:

How about learning something about 1) JavaScript objects ({}), 2) jQuery callbacks 3) jQuery plugins?

Do you have a point or are you just ranting? Consider just learning your lesson and doing more research next time to ask a better question.

*There are thousand of questions which lack of any efforts (which the community liked for other reasons) how can it be considered not simply an excuse when the sentence: "lack of effort" is used to blame questions we don't like?**

The problem which annoys me more is the attempt to hide the emotional mistakes of some community member when they go to an excess, if the excess is in the direction of asking questions to be improved.

It can be made a (very distant of course) paragon with the american police which defends policeman wich beated black color men, which violated the laws.

So SE defends users which, for example, dowvnote too much, without any comment, without any attempt to make it really constructive.

14
  • No, sorry, not every question on SE can be answered by googling... unless you accept answers from SE you get from googling... then you're right! Oct 31, 2014 at 13:48
  • 5
    I'm still confused about what you're asking here. Oct 31, 2014 at 13:51
  • @AnthonyGrist: compare the questions I linked. One got downvoted for lack of effort in googling, the other got upvoted. Googling for hashset was actually very easy, while answering the other by googling was impossible. So I get confused on the commens which are reported here in cursive.
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 14:03
  • 5
    @AnthonyGrist You have to proceed from the axiom that Revious is being mistreated by the users of SO, and any evidence has to be interpreted so as to confirm the axiom.
    – Louis
    Oct 31, 2014 at 14:09
  • @Louis: come on, don't be childish. And no one mistreated me. I don't care of the downvote at all. I see those guys as homer-like peoples.
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 14:11
  • 3
    Questions are DVed for more than only lack of research. The first one is much broader, with a flurry of 10 (Ten) different questions, some of which are "not useful" (who picked the name). The second, while too broad by todays standards, still asks a succint, useful question: how would I make use of this new thing. Note that the comments from that time are a bit dismissive of the question. Oct 31, 2014 at 14:53
  • 6
    I would point out that the current version of the question has at its core the following question(s): I've splitter it into pieces. The questions are many: who is catcomplete? How JQuery autocomplete calls it? What are minLenght, source, open and select? Who decided their name? Which part of code knows how to use them? Are them a JQuery standard? The plethora of subquestions makes it hard to fit into the Q&A format that is tailored to a 'one question per question' layout.
    – user289086
    Oct 31, 2014 at 14:55
  • 1
    The hashset question got 10 DVs. You scored 15, surely you got the bonus ones by commenting that SO users are lazy. Insulting users is your prerogative, just don't expect anybody to be thrilled by it. Oct 31, 2014 at 14:58
  • @MichaelT: your observation is good, even it it's OT here. Here we are focusing only on the observation reported in the comments: the error of the people who saw a lack of effort in my question. I would like this "excuse" to be not used anymore when it's not fitting to a question.
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 14:58
  • 1
    possible duplicate of How much research effort is expected of Stack Overflow users?
    – user289086
    Oct 31, 2014 at 15:01
  • @HansPassant: months ago I suggested that it could be fair to warn users before banning them. Shog9 answered that we have 2 ears and 1 mouth and I should listen... this community almost never says: "ok, we can improve" it seem only to look excuses to prove they never do mistake. But.. the community decided to change on the warning part.
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 15:02
  • @MichaelT: I really don't see the duplicate.. can you explain which parts of both the questions are in common?
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 15:02
  • 4
    Study the answer - you cant have done so in 42 secs (time between dupe comment and your rejection). Oct 31, 2014 at 15:03
  • 7
    As I said, it is your prerogative to insult users and ignore the loud sound of 15 DVs. It is a strong violation of the SE policy but that isn't one that's enforceable, it is just a code of conduct. You'll bear the consequences. Which are pretty mild, you cannot even get blocked from asking questions anymore, just slowed down. You can continue posting insults, you just can't post as many as you want to. Oct 31, 2014 at 15:17

3 Answers 3

-14

Basic questions are ok on Stack Overflow. Our goal is to be the repository of all programming Q&A. This isn't just a site for experts.

13
  • But so why I got downvoted and told that I should study javascript? I tried to google but it was almost impossible to google for ({})
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 14:55
  • 2
    @Revious, because some people don't understand the purpose of this site and the purpose of downvotes. Oct 31, 2014 at 15:10
  • 13
    Basic questions are fine here, but they still need to be good questions. Well formatted, show research, good title, ask the question(not questions) in the first paragraph, etc.
    – Kevin B
    Oct 31, 2014 at 15:21
  • @KevinB, absolutely. Oct 31, 2014 at 15:24
  • 12
    The answer here is correct in the sense that the sentences in it are true but it does not address the issue presented in the question. The question was not whether basic questions are acceptable but why one question was treated differently from another.
    – Louis
    Oct 31, 2014 at 15:25
  • 1
    @Louis: both the problems were issued here. Thanks a lot to Lance Roberts.
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:39
  • @KevinB: can you write a brief, but detailed, comment explaining why the question was poor? So that I can improve it?
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:40
  • 3
    @Revious Sure. The primary problem with the question you asked is that you didn't ask a question, you asked many questions. That makes the question very difficult to answer because any complete answer would have to answer all of the questions correctly. Additionally, to avoid downvotes due to lack of research, you should have at the very least provided a link to the plugin's documentation.
    – Kevin B
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:42
  • @KevinB: have a look to this question: stackoverflow.com/questions/4582694/…. I would like to have a magic genius to look for every question on SE which shows lack of effort and was upvoted. Probably after the first 20000 every high rep op and mod would beg for pity. The "truth" is that it's pretty annoying that some emotional users dowvnote on their mood and mod try to find a justification which is: "if you improve the question more and more they will not downvote".. which is true.. of course it is.
    – Revious
    Nov 3, 2014 at 15:27
  • But the "truth" is that SE fights against bad questions and doesn't fight at all against bad voters. Why? One reason is probably that there isn't a simple way to solve this problems. So, instead of saying: "we know that some users are not putting effort when they vote, and that it can be annoying, but we are not able to handle them and, however, you can solve your problems by improving the question which is also an advantage for us (even if their behavior stays unfair to you..)" they prefer to say: "it's YOUR fault if you fault downvoted"
    – Revious
    Nov 3, 2014 at 15:32
  • To be OP's fault would require rules to be fairily applied. But this cannot be realized in a community of people which are not even payed. This is what annoys me: "the attempt to hide the emotional mistakes of some community member when they go to an excess, if the excess is in the direction of asking questions to be improved". Exaggerating it can be made a paragon with the american police which defends policeman wich beated black color men which violated the rules. So SE defends users which dowvnote too much, without any comment, without any attempt to make it really constructive.
    – Revious
    Nov 3, 2014 at 15:36
  • 5
    Instead of just ranting about it, come up with a solution. this is pointless.
    – Kevin B
    Nov 3, 2014 at 15:40
  • How about for every downvote or upvote, user must provide a reason. Then bot/moderator can reject the vote if the reason is not acceptable. This way it will not solve all problems, but people at least need to think before randomly/emotionally click the arrow.
    – Reci
    Dec 18, 2014 at 3:12
16

When I compare these two questions here's what I see:

The second question:

  • Is formatted well (showing they took some effort to present the question in way answerers can easily digest).
  • Provides a link to the documentation on MSDN (demonstrating a modicum of research)
  • Asks specific questions in a clear concise way, using a numbered list.
  • Has a title which could be better.
    • The OP is not really asking for dictionary definition, but rather is looking for how to use the class in question.

The first question:

  • Also has a poor title.
    • Stack Overflow is about solving programming problems, not about analyzing other people's code.
  • Has buried the questions in the text.
    • If I have to read several paragraphs before I know what the question is, I'm going to move on.
    • Remember, people are volunteering their time to answer questions. If you want a good answer, you need to provide a good question.
  • Does not seem to have been researched well.
    • A quick search for "catcomplete jquery" brings up another Stack Overflow question from 2012: documentation for catcomplete, which would have told the OP that this is a jQuery plugin.
2
  • 8
    Good answer, well researched ;p
    – AbdulG
    Oct 31, 2014 at 15:20
  • 1
    Yet, if you did that search when the first question was asked, in 2010, the SO question wouldn't be found... I say lack of research! Oct 31, 2014 at 15:26
12

One thing you seems to have missed is the second question is from 2010, where the standards for questions was quite different. That question wouldn't fly high today.

People can downvote as they want, which is not always constructive but there's nothing that can be done to change a downvote if the person that did it doesn't check back the question after a while. There's no notification of a question/answer edit after you have downvoted it so you could potentially change your vote.

Since I don't have the knowledge of Javascript to know if the first question required to be downvoted, I can't really help on that.

14
  • I like the second part of your answer, but I strongly think you are wrong on the first. What will you say if I find 20 questions which could be googled and are more recent? Would you bet 100$ that I will not find them? I would love you would bet that money, but of course you would not.. people vote according to their mood, not to ideological values, since they are humans. Ps: +1 however.
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 14:07
  • 3
    I'm not saying there isn't recent cases of questions that lack research but rather that the high upvotes count wouldn't happen. I doubt you would find a +10 question that, initially (first 30 mins of being asked) was lacking research in the last year. Any data explorer wiz wanna search? Oct 31, 2014 at 14:15
  • 5
    To be honest, your downvoted post feels all over the place. Its more the structure of the question as opposed to the research you have done.
    – AbdulG
    Oct 31, 2014 at 14:23
  • 1
    No, basic questions are ok on Stack Overflow. It's not just for rocket scientists. Our goal is to be a repository of all programming Q&A. Oct 31, 2014 at 14:47
  • @AbdulG: ok, I can understand that but then let's ban whoever speaks of lack of effort in an improper way. It's a provocation and a joke of course. But what would you do to orient the efforts of the community to solve this problems? I always hear people saying: "meta is harsh but we can do nothing..", downvoters could add a comment but we can do nothing... SE is a great community but we may examine the problems. For example by giving the right names to problems.
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 14:54
  • 2
    @Revious I guess i just fail to see this as a problem. Downvotes are there to do two things: Communicate to the community that the question isn't interesting or worth looking at, and secondly (and less importantly) to indicate to the owner of the post that something is wrong. The question you referenced that got downvoted definitely has far more things wrong with it than the other, and i would have downvoted it as well so that it wouldn't show up in my question feeds. (The downvote would have also been accompanied by a close vote.)
    – Kevin B
    Oct 31, 2014 at 15:07
  • @KevinB: both the reason you say are rational reasons. Instead people are emotional as Hans was stating "surely you got the bonus ones by commenting that SO users are lazy". I am not complaining. I care nothing of 12 persons which downvoted the questions without even thinking and putting their thought into discussion. But since 12 dowvnotes cannot be called rational, and since the question was not so bad, is it really profitable for the community to consider this votes? And even more to try to climb mirror to justify them (by saying I lacked of effort for example, which is clearly false).
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:14
  • @Revious What are you saying? the votes should be reversed? they shouldn't affect the question feeds? what?
    – Kevin B
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:15
  • @KevinB: let's simply start by not defending this users.. mod and high rep users here behave like coaches. Most of time they face little children which deserve a lesson. And I like the way they solve the problem. But I would appreciate when they would not climb mirrors to defend users which downvoted me 12 times for a question which showed no lack of effort. This is really mirror climbing.. (even if my question could be improved, you have to compare it with other questions)
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:16
  • @KevinB: if you would like to say: "but your question was bad for this reason and deserved 12 downvotes" we should take the 100 questions of yesterday and make a comparison with my question to see if the score is objective or not.
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:19
  • 2
    @Revious What do you want done about this though? we aren't going to reverse downvotes, and we aren't going to take that ability away from users. All you can do is learn from this experience and ask better questions in the future.
    – Kevin B
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:21
  • 2
    Clearly you wanted some kind of action to happen, as otherwise you wouldn't have brought this to meta. I am defending the downvotes because the question itself is a poor question worthy of downvotes. I myself would have downvoted, if i didn't have a self-imposed rule of not voting on meta linked questions.
    – Kevin B
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:23
  • @KevinB: the action I would like to have stated from an high op: "the users which blamed you for lack of effort probably did a mistake. Also a downscore of 12 seem exaggerated and unuseful. However the question is bad for some reasons followed by a clear explanation". The best would be to have it as a unique comment to the question deleting the previous which are chatty. What I would like is that the community would give a good direction not only for writing questions, but also for voting them. And your comment would help a lot in that.
    – Revious
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:29
  • 5
    the users which blamed you for lack of effort incorrectly downvoted in my opinion. They should have instead downvoted because the question is poor, however, maybe that is why they downvoted. Only the user that downvoted knows why they downvoted.
    – Kevin B
    Oct 31, 2014 at 16:30

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