98

Every once in a blue moon, I notice an answer that matches the pattern:

  • It's on a popular topic
  • It's getting views
  • It has a lot of upvotes, sometimes even an upvoted "thanks!" comment.
  • It is completely and utterly false.

Here are such two examples:

These are just the quickest two I found, but there are such answers I run into every once in a while. I'm not talking about deprecated technology that changed, but about answers that are downright wrong from their conception day.

So, what should I do when I encounter a factually incorrect old answer with a lot of upvotes?

Is commenting enough? It seems not to be the case for the strings answer, but worked for one of the Angular ones. Is flagging appropriate? Should the upvoted answers be posted about in meta on a case by case basis?

Related:

17
  • 4
    Comment, downvote. It's the same for all answers. If your comment is correct, it will be upvoted and seen. Then more downvotes.
    – bjb568
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 18:51
  • 14
    @bjb568 clearly, that doesn't work in all cases - I chose that JS string answer example since it's over half a year old. Commented May 16, 2014 at 18:52
  • 1
    Of course not, but there is no better way. Flagging is inappropriate. Deleting is extreme.
    – bjb568
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 18:55
  • 2
    @BenjaminGruenbaum That's nothing :) This answer is still the accepted answer, at -5 :) I flagged this for mod attention when I found out it was wrong (jan 4th). It has gotten 3 downvotes since.
    – sehe
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:04
  • 6
    My assumption: if the user was expert enough at the time to give a credible answer, then he's now either retired from the profession or he's aware that it's wrong and wants to consume a passive rep flow. In either case you're in for an uphill fight. I admire you for bringing this up!
    – Gayot Fow
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:09
  • 1
    @sehe I delete voted it, now two more people have to read this and do the same - my problem is bigger with highly upvoted ones. Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:11
  • 1
    It's not that wrong. The part of it that answers the stated question ("strings are immutable") is correct, and you repeated it in your comments. Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:11
  • 1
    I don't agree that the Javascript String answer was wrong at the time. Not everyone used ECMAscript in 2008, and the concept of "Object" was not well defined for Javascript. The concept of immutability is applicable to primitive types; for example, in some versions of FORTRAN, numeric "constants" were mutable.
    – Warren Dew
    Commented May 17, 2014 at 7:27
  • 2
    @WarrenDew Even if not everyone used ECMAScript in 2008, that statement was still vastly incorrect, but in 2014, it's even more incorrect. That said, I'm not asking about that specific question here - look at the other one for instance. Commented May 17, 2014 at 11:54
  • Hilariously enough, that JavaScript answer (and the rhino book it quotes from) is actually correct. Everything in JavaScript is an object (even primitive values). Strings (and all other primitive values) are immutable, you cannot change a string (or any other primitive value) once it has been declared, but you can create a new string object and assign the reference to that object to the variable which previously held the reference to the original string as its value.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 5, 2017 at 23:15
  • 2
    @TinyGiant no, open the spec - ecma-international.org/ecma-262/7.0 - " The ECMAScript language types are Undefined, Null, Boolean, String, Symbol, Number, and Object" - You can see this more specifically in the section about types: ecma-international.org/ecma-262/7.0/… - you're incorrect and are demonstrating why this question is important. Commented Jun 6, 2017 at 7:28
  • Sorry, but youre reading that wrong.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 6, 2017 at 14:39
  • 6
    @TinyGiant Instead of appealing to authority via my own spec work - I'll just prove it var str = "foo"; str.bar = 5; console.log("this is undefined", str.bar) - if str was an object it would log 5, or throw. It boxes str to a string object. In particular, read the part about the string boxed object vs the string value type: es5.github.io/#x4.3.18 Commented Jun 6, 2017 at 15:53
  • 1
    This SO answer has 524 upvotes, 4 downvotes, and is completely wrong. It has been a community wiki for 8 years, yet nobody noticed or changed anything. I'll modify it this weekend. Commented Jan 5, 2018 at 9:45
  • 1
    @RokeJulianLockhart debating the duplicated-ness of two 10+ year old irrelevant and inactive questions is the most meta.stackoverflow.com thing ever. None of the people who participated in that discussion are even active here anymore :D Commented Jul 4 at 15:38

7 Answers 7

41

Just my opinion, but I think the correct approach is to first write a comment to the author of the answer, and if (only if) they don't respond in some reasonable time, edit the answer, but with formatting to make it clear that your text is an edit, reading something like:

This answer was historically accepted as correct, but may be outdated as a result of [changing language standards/modern optimizing compilers/whatever...]. Readers looking for up-to-date information on the topic of this question should consult further resources, or ask a new question citing this question and answer and explicitly asking for new information on things that have changed since they were written. ...

For what it's worth, I think the comment approach usually works well. I've had it done to my answers several times (e.g. one answer stating that anonymous unions are not a part of the C language but a nonstandard, non-portable extension, which was made incorrect with the advent of C11) and I've quickly added notes similar to the above myself, or simply updated the answer to reflect the modern situation while leaving notes about what the correct answer used to be.

3
  • 2
    Agreed taking a positive tone instead of trolling is a much better approach.
    – TJA
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 4:15
  • @TJA this is a question answering website. We should not be positive towards incorrect answers. Obviously trolling is bad too, but it having incorrect answers online and upvoted is misleading and can make a huge number of people believe something that is proven to be factually incorrect. There needs to be an avenue for correcting incorrect answers that have been accepted, as they may be the basis on which people make future decisions. Answers should be correct. Correct answers are the only thing that make this site valuable at all.
    – ICW
    Commented Aug 21, 2019 at 18:13
  • 3
    @YungGun The rationale behind "a positive tone" is that I have had correct answers that I have spent several hours working on down voted. I have then double checked their validity and am left at a loss as to why they were down voted, and without comment I will never know. That kind of trolling really reduces my desire to contribute correct answers to the community.
    – TJA
    Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 11:07
35

Flagging is absolutely inappropriate for anything to do with the factual accuracy of posts, which in the general case is for the community to decide on by peer review and not you, me or some moderator.

Of course, you're correct that downvoting is not enough, though, because the 5-minute FGITW period has long passed for these questions and you can't fight all those upvotes.

I reckon the best thing you can do is to write a comment to the author, hope he engages, fight it out, and cross your fingers.

4
  • 5
    This answer also expresses my personal opinion. I also thing flagging is inappropriate here. I also think meta discussion on a per question basis might also be viable. Commented May 16, 2014 at 18:56
  • 3
    @BenjaminGruenbaum: Possibly. I'm not convinced you could get a score reversal even if you were right and even if you posted about it on meta. Commented May 16, 2014 at 18:59
  • 12
    So, basically the answer is "nothing can be done about it".
    – user626528
    Commented Jan 14, 2015 at 7:13
  • 5
    Aaah! The joys of democracy. Commented Apr 18, 2015 at 13:17
6

In egregious cases, you could make a post highlighting the incorrect answer on meta or in chat (as you've already done for three such answers). Doing so might enlist several other users to downvote the question and move it down the list, or at least make it clear that the accepted answer isn't quite right.

3

Downvoting is obviously not enough. Old answers with high numbers of votes which are now wrong (or were never right) have zero practical chance of being downvoted under a newer, correct answer.

I would propose two solutions:

  • A user's reputation in a tag is a multiplier of their up- and down-votes on answers in that tag (i.e., Jon Skeet's upvotes on C# answers count for more than mine)

  • Users with certain badges or rep in a tag (1k? 2k? 5k?) can vote to bury an answer.

There's obviously some overlap, I'm just suggesting a couple of obvious mechanisms.

Most of my time on SO is spent evaluating the correctness of answers. I'd like to save other people the trouble in the tags in which I have expertise.

1

In the case of the Javascript question, I am not sure that the answer is wrong enough to warrant all this fuss.

When someone asks, 'are strings immutable', they almost certainly mean:

Is there some way to change the contents of a string?

As in:

a = "HelloDolly"
b = a
a[1] = 'i'

and end up with 'HilloDolly' accessible to both a and b. The answer in Javascript is 'no', and so, for practical purposes, well, the strings are immutable.

The fact that Javascript achieves this immutability by treating strings as primitives instead of immutable objects is language-lawyer-land.

I bother to engage in this argument to make a point about the many upvoters. 66 people thought that this answer added value. It helped them. My point is that this answer is not nearly wrong enough to call all of them sheep. The OP accepted it. It helped her or him. That's the voice of the community speaking. If your other example is otherwise, OK, I am not qualified to judge it.

9
  • 11
    It's still harmful to post an answer that states the correct conclusion but has an entirely invalid analysis for basing that conclusion.
    – Servy
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:03
  • 1
    The answer quotes a slightly ambiguous statement in a reputable book. 'Entirely wrong analysis'? I don't think so.
    – bmargulies
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:08
  • 10
    It spreads misinformation, and if you read the question - it asks if you need a string builder (which it does not answer). Moreover, it perpetuates a myth that is harmful in several other JS coding scenarios. That said, I only downvoted this because it's not the topic of this meta discussion - if you check the other (Angular) question for instance - it's completely and 100% false. Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:08
  • 10
    @bmargulies But it's not ambiguous, it's clearly wrong. The fact that its from a reputable book is all the more reason to draw attention to the fact that it's wrong. Incorrect information that people believe is correct is way more damaging than incorrect information that is obviously false to all readers.
    – Servy
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:11
  • 2
    I think that the book is using the word 'object' in an informal sense to describe the behavior of Javascript to people coming from other languages. You think that it should distinguish primitive values and objects while making this point. OK, we disagree.
    – bmargulies
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:17
  • 2
    @bmargulies please read the passages in the book that surround that clause. Even if you don't - without context, this passage alone is harmful. JavaScript objects and value primitives have way different semantics, are passed differently, and so on. When someone does (function(){ this === "myStr"; }).call("myStr") and gets false, they won't understand the issue if they're unfamiliar with autoboxing. There are a lot (like, a lot) of subtleties with value and object types, and calling them immutable objects is no different from calling numbers immutable objects. Again, this is offtopic. Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:23
  • 4
    @bmargulies: Re: "I think that the book is using the word 'object' in an informal sense": O.K., but do you also think it's using the sentence "Strings are assigned by reference, not by value" in an informal sense? How about "you can have multiple references to a string object"? The passage makes the same specific claim in several different ways; I don't think you can so easily brush that off as terminological looseness.
    – ruakh
    Commented May 17, 2014 at 6:46
  • 1
    Having read all of the discussion on the answer, and here, I see plenty of acknowledgement that Javascript strings are immutable, and plenty of justification for the claim that they are "not objects" in a sense that is meaningful in a Javascript-specific context. However, I see absolutely nothing to challenge the claim that they are assigned by reference. Is it being claimed that, whenever a string is e.g. passed to a function, a copy of the underlying character data is made? If so, given that the string is immutable, what observable effect could this have? Why do it? Commented Nov 13, 2022 at 8:49
  • 1
    Or else, what else could "assigned by value" mean? Commented Nov 13, 2022 at 8:50
1

As others have said, flagging for moderator attention is not an option; instead you should downvote and comment.

However, if the answer is popular and at the top of the list (or worse, accepted), it can take ages for a better answer to come up. Editing the answer to point out that it is no longer accurate may be morally right, but I thought it was against SO policies. R..'s answer suggests it may be right - great!

There is another semi-effective measure that has worked for me:

Leave a comment on the question and ask the OP to revise the answers.

You can hope they'll accept a correct one. In my experience, about half the time this was the case, while in the other half the OP has moved on and stopped having enough current knowledge, interest or time to review the answers, or was no longer active on the site.

I'm afraid this is the best we have. So, downvote the answer, comment on it, then leave a comment on the question, and hope the asker will have a second look.

-7

TL;DR

In my opinion, if post is incorrect, then it score is irrelevant. Thus, rules for usual incorrect posts are same as for "highly upvoted" incorrect posts.

"Historical"

Yes, there are many such examples - in, I believe, most of tags. This "historical" means that - may be, that time there was not enough experts to judge the post. It attracted upvotes - and later it was up-voted only because of it high score. May be up-voters even didn't read it. May be they read it and didn't understand (but thought "hm, it's highly up-voted, may be it's because of lack of my knowldge I think it is wrong?")

So - yes, unfortunately, what you're saying is true sometimes on SO. This is the case when score system fails.

Resolution

In my opinion, such answers should be:

  • Commented to indicate that they are bad
  • If there's no feedback from their author, then they should be flagged as custom flag with explanation of details.

You also may vote to delete (that I would did too) - but I think it's better to indicate to post author graceful that it's incorrect so he will decide what to do. This will result in less negative attitude (because, obviously, direct deletion will cause author of the post to loose many reputation points)

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  • 5
    This entire answer (particularly as it begins with the ridiculous "If post is incorrect, then it's [sic] score is irrelevant") is predicated on the assumption that you know best. That you alone must be right, and all those upvoters must be wrong. That's offensive, and bigoted. This is a community. If you think more debate needs to be had on the merits of an answer, then you should try to draw attention to it and engage people. You shouldn't stomp in going "I KNOW BEST" trying to delete everything. How do you know you're right? Who are you to decide that for everybody? Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:00
  • 5
    This entire topic is about "I know that post is incorrect & I can prove it". So - yes, in some sense, the person who knows that the post is wrong - is better in that tag. But that's why I suggested to comment first - so explain your arguments & discuss with OP. Also, what is said in this post - is only my answer, thus, it's only my opinion Also, about deletion: I can not do that with only my own vote - and for high-score posts it will require lots of votes. So it it will be deleted, then it's really wrong.
    – Alma Do
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:02
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit on one hand, I agree with the notion that one person knows best. Then again, that entire line of thought is what drove Mike Pall away from Stack Overflow. Sometimes an individual does know better than the community consensus, I fully agree with you that flagging is harmful and dangerous, what about meta discussion about it on a per question basis? Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:06
  • 2
    @Benjamin: Yes, of course, sometimes an individual is right where the community concensus is wrong, but only in objective matters and only where that can be proven upfront. Where somebody decides for themselves that they are the authority on what is and is not correct, that's a problem. Arguably, the default position should be that "high post score" = "correct", because that's what lots of upvotes means: lots of people thought it was correct. If you are more qualified than all of those people combined, then you have to prove it. Not just march in and delete stuff, as Alma would like. Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:09
  • @AlmaDo: Granted, since multiple votes are needed, there is at least some merit in that. I don't think you can VTD accepted answers, though. Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:11
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit you did not get the idea. Or somehow ended with conclusion about my answer that "one decided that he has the authority..". No. He has not. He may vote to delete, but that will require lots of votes. That naturally will indicate that post is wrong - because not every user may vote to delete. Also - yes. If user may del-vote and decided that post worth it - it's an opinion of that user. Why then we have del-votes mechanics? May be it's wrong at all then? Why can we then express our opinion through it? Yes, it's not about accepted answers - but about high-rated wrong posts
    – Alma Do
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:11
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit I agree that I'd have to be more qualified than all those people combined, and the fact that most of the time - any number of those people combined have a better understanding than the average reader. However, I'm specifically asking what to do when you're absolutely sure that all those people combined are wrong (as in - have a specification reference, and the relevant source code to disprove it empirically and objectively. I'd just like to note I acknowledge that the fact these cases are extremely rare is what makes Stack Overflow work so well. Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:14
  • 1
    Delete votes are not for expressing dissatisfaction or disagreement with content. That's what downvotes are for. Delete votes are for removing spam and offensive material without bothering the moderators. Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:15
  • 1
    @BenjaminGruenbaum: Again I think the most effective and most appropriate thing to do is show that evidence to the answer author and the question OP and hope they see it and agree with you. Ultimately, as a democratic system, you may not get your way even when you are convinced you are correct, and this must be acceptable. Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:16
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit how so? Spam & offensive posts are subjects for flags. They can not be handled by community (while sometimes it is so). Where it is said then del-votes are for offensive/spam posts?
    – Alma Do
    Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:16
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit While again, I agree with that sentiment, I guess my question really boils down to : "How do I get these questions the community attention I believe they deserve, so that the on-going damage they cause can be mitigated". Is that clearer? Commented May 16, 2014 at 19:17

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