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We get a lot of "homework" questions, many of which have no attempted code and so fall foul of Rule 4 from the on-topic help page:

Questions asking for homework help must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it.

When a homework question lacks code, the usual response from the community is downvoting plus "show us your codez" comments.

There are only two certainties I see in these situations:

  1. someone has asked for help
  2. the community gave an unfriendly, even hostile, response (and no help)

This is not good for our site.

Firstly, one should note that rule 4 does not say there must be code, but rather that there must be effort - perhaps some analysis or research instead of code.

Now, here's the rub: What if the user has no clue? Perhaps they are new to programming and simply don't know where to begin or how to think about the problem before them. Maybe they have no teacher (or a bad one), maybe English is not their first language, maybe all they have is an Internet connection and google brings them to us.

My proposal is to answer homework questions, as long as the question meets the other criteria (clear, answerable, etc) verbally - without any code, or if necessary pseudo code - so the asker gets constructive help (but still must write their own code).

I believe this would achieve the following:

  • we would add a "tutorial" dimension to answers (we could even tag the question as such)
  • we would be perceived as more friendly (I believe our "friendometer" score to be problem)
  • we would gain another user to the community (rather than frustrate and alienate them)

And what's the downside?

  • Effort: Not so much. The overall effort to reply may be similar the overall effort of closing (votes, comments, flag queues), albeit born by fewer bees in the hive
  • Quality: I'm not sure an tutorial style response lacks quality. There is plenty of verbiage in answers, and the best answers have lots of explanatory text. So what if there's no code in the answer
  • User learning: Can't say. I have seen code-based responses downvoted for spoon feeding, which is probably a misuse of the vote, but the sentiment (probably correct) is that handing out code may not lead to learning. OK, but how much learning happens when we reject the question? Don't know, because it would have to happen elsewhere, but I can say no learning happened on our site - and isn't that part of our mission? To teach?

Bottom line: Can we please be more friendly?

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  • 13
    We shouldn't make a special rule for homework. We finally banished the homework tag less than 2 years ago, we don't need to invite it back. There is nothing special about homework questions. Previously they were an excuse to offer half-assed answers to half-assed questions and making exceptions for homework would only lead to this again. May 20, 2014 at 23:56
  • @psubsee2003 "half-assed" questions can still be canned. I'm talking about reasonable questions, but missing the "effort" part (referred to in rule 4)
    – Bohemian Mod
    May 21, 2014 at 0:32
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    "Isn't that part of our mission? To teach?" "Teaching" users has never been an explicit part of Stack Overflow's mission, as far as I'm aware. Except, of course, for the part about teaching users to solve their own problems.
    – user456814
    May 21, 2014 at 0:40
  • Effort is not a requirement. Downvoting and closevoting are two different things.
    – bjb568
    May 21, 2014 at 1:36
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    If homework isn't special then why not remove item 4 from that page?
    – Bohemian Mod
    May 21, 2014 at 1:48
  • My fuel tank for trying to make SO friendlier is about exhausted. I'm not going to pursue the idea any further. It is what it is and people seem to like it that way. I'm not passing judgement here, I'm merely changing my stance to acceptance of the status quo. In the words of the Borg... resistance is futile.
    – Bohemian Mod
    May 21, 2014 at 1:57
  • @Bohemian We can be nicer, yes, but why answer them if they're questions we would close anyway? That... seems counterproductive.
    – hichris123
    May 21, 2014 at 2:03
  • @hichris123 It's fine. I'm over it. (although the answer is "because it would help the asker", but apparently not the site)
    – Bohemian Mod
    May 21, 2014 at 2:09
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    @Bohemian - Making the site a comfortable and friendly environment is always something worth working towards. I don't believe that being more friendly and improving the overall quality of content on the site are mutually exclusive goals. It's always worth questioning the way things have been done to see if there's a better way to run the site.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    May 21, 2014 at 3:10
  • @BradLarson Agree, but most seem to prefer a tighter post quality over broader audience assistance, which is valid. I have got another suggestion, that might help both sides of the equation. Maybe I'll post it later if I can refuel.
    – Bohemian Mod
    May 21, 2014 at 3:52

3 Answers 3

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I still stand by my initial comment. There's nothing special about homework questions. We don't need to make an exception for it. If we are going to lower the requirement for homework, then we need to lower the requirements for all questions.

Personally, I am all for being nicer but the issue isn't necessarily homework problems, it is help vampires. That is, people who have zero interest is actually making an effort because they know if they post the question on a website, some random sucker will give them the answer.

Actually, I never thought rule 4 that you mention was necessarily about requiring code or requiring someone show that they made an effort. I've stumbled across plenty of examples (including recent ones) of good questions that don't show much code, and those questions have a number of upvotes and a number of good answers. That "rule" exists to help provide a limit on users who fail to do any research whatsoever.

When a question appears to be relatively simple and looks to be very close to a copy-and-paste from a assignment, then the OP is not respecting the community enough to deserve our assistance, whereas someone who at least appears to make an effort usually will get some help.

So I don't see any reason to change anything to help out someone who doesn't want put out the appearance of any effort, because often, that seems to be more than enough.

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Because I don't see "homework" as a meaningful classification of questions, I want to concentrate on this statement you made:

Now, here's the rub: What if the user has no clue? Perhaps they are new to programming and simply don't know where to begin or how to think about the problem before them.

Then we should show them the door, and invite them to return once they have obtained a clue.

Don't get me wrong, I think on the whole we could be significantly nicer about how we show them the door. I have no qualms with solutions on how we could be "friendlier" in that regard. But I can't envision a world in which we need to invite more easily-googlable questions from students who just fired up their first python interpreter this week. That makes the site worse, not better.

In fact I want to quote something that I put into a comment to another thread.

Honestly everything is summed up for me as: "have you run a few queries through google first?" The internet is a far different place than it was five years ago, in no small part thanks to the vast archive of very good SO Q+A threads. It continually surprises me how bad of a query I can throw at google and still have my exact answer returned in the form of an SO thread. So like you say, questions that add value to the corpus of programming knowledge are great, but we (and by extension, google) have covered the hell out of the "easy stuff" at this point.

Here's the thing. Users "without a clue" need way more help than we can reasonably give them. The user who asks:

title: python class strings2.py exercise E

can you explain why this code is checking for -1?

(some code that uses str.find)

This person doesn't need to be told that -1 is find's sentinel value for "not found". That information exists in tens of thousands of places, inches from their fingertips, if they just knew how. What this person needs is to systematically readjust the way (s)he approaches problem solving so that they can figure out how str.find works on their own. But how much do they already know? Do they know what a method is? Do they know how to use google?

Let's assume that you somehow manage to extract all that prerequisite information from their brain via extended discussion in the comments. Now, explaining the whole approach to solve it takes paragraphs of explanation (which the OP may/may not even read) and cannot feasibly help anyone other than him. Or, well. That information would help lots of other noob programmers, but won't when it's attached to that guy's question. Who would look for it there?

The SE formula works because it pairs questions with answers, and systematically culls out the questions that can't be answered. It's explained to new users right up front: "Not all questions work well in our format."

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Here's how I look at it: if it's homework or not doesn't change how I view a question.

Really, I sort them into two categories:

  1. The crappy questions. These ones are the off-topic/too broad/other close reasons or they're just low-quality. Downvote, close, edit, etc.

  2. The high-quality questions. These ones are the questions that I'd think are acceptable if they had no mention of homework. Maybe some editing is necessary.

The bottom line: I shouldn't be able to tell your question is a homework question except if you mention the word homework. If it's a homework question, that means you're still held to the exact same standards as any other question.

I don't think we should be doing anything special for homework questions, and I don't believe that we should be judging them unfairly just because they have the word homework in them. Just judge them as you always would; if it needs editing, edit it. If it should be closed, vote to close it. If it's high-quality: upvote; if it's low-quality: downvote.

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  • But there is a rule dedicated to "homework" questions, so they are clearly "special". They also frequently (much more than other types) contain no code/effort, usually because the asker is a noob.
    – Bohemian Mod
    May 21, 2014 at 0:30
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    @Bohemian Uh, isn't that what we think every question should have anyway? If it's just a problem dump -> too broad. If it's just a I need help doing this!1111 (non-homework) -> too broad/unclear. It's really the same thing.
    – hichris123
    May 21, 2014 at 0:33
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    @Bohemian there isn't a rule dedicated to homework. There is an excerpt in the help center directed at users who ask homework questions to provide them some guidance on getting help. May 21, 2014 at 0:38
  • My bad - not a "rule", a "guideline". Still, if homework isn't special, why have the guideline? Don't worry - I'm about to give up on the whole idea. There's too much resistance to it. People clearly don't want "no effort made" homework questions answered here. Fine.
    – Bohemian Mod
    May 21, 2014 at 1:51
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    I don't know exactly why those words were added, @Bohemian, but it seems clear to me that the guideline exists because so many people come here with homework problems, not because homework help is our purpose. It's a sign saying "You need tire chains if you're going to drive over this mountain", not "Four-wheeling fun in the snow ahead!"
    – jscs
    May 21, 2014 at 4:12

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