4

Regarding this answer: VS 2013 Controller Scaffolding Fails for the ApplicationUser Model (Multiple object sets per type are not supported)

I flagged as 'not-an-answer' via the flag review queue. To me, it was clear after reading the question that it was a comment. The flag was initially declined, but later accepted after I re-raised a custom flag with explanation. The mod who accepted it made a request:

helpful - Next time, perhaps tell us that, because how were we supposed to figure that one out? "Not an answer" flags are for things that are obvious on their face.

My question is: When is it helpful to raise a custom flag with explanation instead of simply raising a not-an-answer flag?

Also, presuming the explanation can be phrased in such a way that it is helpful to the OP and other users in addition to being helpful to a mod, is it acceptable to simply leave an explanatory comment on the answer with a standard not-an-answer flag, instead of raising a custom flag?

4
  • 3
    This really rubs me the wrong way. I'm a mod on a quiet site (cooking), not like the crazy-busy SO mods, and I still appreciate users who add information to their flags. You've even gone so far as saying that you didn't realize this was a response to a comment at first - why is it so surprising that a busy mod didn't either, and then erred on the side of not deleting it because it looked semi-relevant? StackExchange is all about community moderation, leaving as little for the mods to do as possible - help them out, please!
    – Cascabel
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:16
  • @Jefromi What I meant was, it was obvious that it was NAA without having to dig through and also find out what comment it was specifically a reply to. I thought that having multiple users raise an NAA flag was community-moderated-help enough. If a mod wants to ignore a community decision (and there were no invalid flags raised, btw), then I fail to see how "community moderation" won there. You don't get to unilaterally ignore multiple flags if you aren't willing to look a little more closely at the situation.
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:42
  • 1
    If you regret the phrasing of the question, you might want to also rethink saying that mods are ignoring flags or community decisions. That's not what this is about. It's about them handling them as best they can (while still getting through all of them), and sometimes that means that they make an honest mistake: they see something that looks like it might have been an attempt to somehow answer the question, and don't delete it, when it was in fact meant as a comment. This is way, way better than accidentally deleting an answer that should've been left alone or converted.
    – Cascabel
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:48
  • @Jefromi To that end, I have edited the question to remove the strong bias, and added an answer that summarizes the discussions below. I stand by the bolded statement in my previous comment but it is not directly on-topic. I also stand by my high expectations but acknowledge that they may not be reasonable.
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 20:01

4 Answers 4

12

Thanks! This worked for me.

Not an answer.

Did you ever find a solution to this?

Not an answer.

I'm having the same problem too. Top answer doesn't work for me.

Not an answer.

Google is your friend.

Not an answer.

Actually, since it's public virtual IDbSet Users { get; set; } you should override it.

Other -> "This is a comment in direct response to Stuart Dobson's comment on the highest voted answer."


If something in the answer box can in no way be interpreted as an answer, go ahead and flag it as "Not an Answer." This is a request that a moderator simply delete the post because it makes no attempt at answering the question.

If it's possible that someone who has no knowledge of the subject matter area (i.e., a moderator) might not be able to determine whether that post is an answer or not, it's better to spell it out for us. We don't like to summarily delete posts that might be answers. (Ok, some of us do, we just don't like to admit it.)

8
  • Or "Cancel button will be gone after upgrade to ios7.1", which also did not seem to cause any issue, despite requiring the question to be read to determine it was not an answer. Literally zero of the not-an-answer flags I've seen so far jive with what you've just stated, except the one I am asking about, of course.
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 18:59
  • 4
    @JasonC Sometimes you get lucky and your flag is handled by a moderator who happens to know what they're looking at. Mar 19, 2014 at 19:01
  • @BilltheLizard I strongly disagree that moderators should be casting decisions on non-obvious flags when they don't know what they're looking at, but I suppose that's fair enough given the relative insignificance of this particular issue.
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:09
  • And apologies if my expectations are too high. I took the moderator nominations and vote rather seriously.
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:31
  • 4
    @JasonC No apologies necessary, but that expectation is kind of high. We're still spread way too thin to leave flags waiting for a moderator with tag expertise. If we leave flags without reviewing them, there's no guarantee that anyone will ever look at them. Instead we ask the community to help us out by casting flags that any moderator can process. Mar 19, 2014 at 19:39
  • 6
    @jason It's not that your expectations are high, it's that they're different than what's intended. A moderator shouldn't have to understand the subject matter to handle a NAA flag. It's just not what the system is designed for. Flags would wallow around forever if that were the case. Moderators take moderation seriously too; NAA flags exist to help us streamline a specific type of flag handling. I should be able to open the flag queue on ANY of the 100+ SE sites and handle an NAA flag without any context outside the answer. That's what they're for.
    – WendiKidd
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:46
  • @WendiKidd +1 Sure, I'll buy that, if you put it that way.
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:51
9
  1. Use a custom flag. That is the appropriate action, and the only way to provide a custom explanation of your flag.

  2. Looking at the post in isolation, it looks like an attempt at an answer. You need to look deeper to realize that it is actually a comment. Because it's not immediately obvious from the post itself that it's NAA, you should use a custom flag to provide the additional context (that the post lacks) to the moderator.

  3. Regardless of your expectation, that is not the reality. The moderators expect that if there is a post that isn't very obviously NAA, and that there is something less obvious going on, that you'll use a custom flag to explain it. This is simply the only realistic way they can get through the shear number of flags that they have.

25
  • Should I use a custom flag for all not-an-answers? Also, looking at an answer in isolation without reading the question does not seem to be the encouraged mode of operation here -- am I mistaken?
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 18:52
  • 4
    No. What gives you that impression from this post, or from the decline text. It seems rather clear. If the fact that the post is NAA is very obvious and in your face, use NAA. If it's a bit more subtle and requires a deeper look at the context, use a custom flag to explain the context.
    – Servy
    Mar 19, 2014 at 18:52
  • Because this answer was as clearly not-an-answer to me as every other not-an-answer post I've seen (recall I'm asking about the original not-an-answer flag; of course explanation is warranted in the re-flag). Since I need a way to judge whether or not a custom flag is warranted, yet I am unable to distinguish this from any other not-an-answer post I've seen, my only conclusion is that the safest catch-all is to assume all not-an-answers require explanation. What should my criteria for deciding to provide additional explanation in a custom flag be?
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 18:55
  • (Just to be clear; my question is how should I have handled the original flag, to prevent the whole re-flag situation in the first place.)
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 18:55
  • @JasonC Looking at the answer, it appears to be an attempt at an answer, at least at first glance. After reading through the whole question, the other answers, and having some understanding of the domain, it becomes clear that it's a reply to another answer, but the form of the answer doesn't make it clear that that is the case. It doesn't start with, "such and such's answer is wrong because [...]". A mod reviewing a NAA flag should be able to handle the flag without looking at the question, or any other answers. It should be obvious from the answer alone.
    – Servy
    Mar 19, 2014 at 18:59
  • It's obvious because you have read through the entire context that the post stands in, and with that context it's obvious. Without that context it's not obvious.
    – Servy
    Mar 19, 2014 at 18:59
  • 2
    @JasonC - I was the one who responded to your flag, and what I was trying to indicate is that if it's not immediately obvious why something isn't an answer, you need to give us a little more to go on. If you want us to convert something to a comment, say so in an "other" flag and point out which post this is really a comment on. I had to read the entire post and all the comments there just to figure out where this needed to go. That was not at all obvious to me (someone who didn't handle your original flag), so some additional context was needed here.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Mar 19, 2014 at 18:59
  • @Servy I mentioned this in my post, but it was obvious to me just by glancing at the question; I didn't actually have to do all the research to figure out where it belonged until I was coming up with a rationale for the re-flag.
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:05
  • 1
    @JasonC You could tell by looking at the answer, without reading the question, any other answers, or any of the comments, that this is not an attempt at answering the question? I doubt that.
    – Servy
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:06
  • @BradLarson Thanks; can you recommend a good rule of thumb for determining when a "not-an-answer" requires further explanation? Also, would an explanation in a comment on the answer (if possible) be acceptable? That seems like it would help both mods and the OP.
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:06
  • 4
    @JasonC So you read and understood the question. As I have already said, you should be able to tell that the post is NAA without reading or understanding the question. You are apparently sufficiently knowledgeable about the domain of this topic to understand that this post wasn't a valid answer, and that it must therefore not be trying to answer the question. A moderator will not have that information. You need to provide it. It's not about how obvious it is to you, it's about how obvious you think it is to a mod.
    – Servy
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:09
  • 2
    @JasonC That's simply not feasible. There are way too few mods, and way too many subject areas. Requiring moderators to understand a subject material to respond to flags will simply result in a huge number of flags never being handled. When you flag a post, you should ensure that someone with no domain knowledge will be able to understand your request. If they couldn't, you're not flagging correctly.
    – Servy
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:14
  • 3
    @JasonC - Bill lists some pretty good examples in his answer, but basically if you could only see the answer and nothing around it, could you tell that it was clearly not an answer (gibberish, follow-on questions, "me too" statements, etc.)? If so, use "not an answer". If not, please help us out with some background ("this is a comment on the accepted answer", "this is a plagiarized duplicate of one of the answers", etc.). Otherwise, it's a crapshoot as to whether we'll see what you did. I always appreciate a little extra information if it makes my decisions easier.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:30
  • 1
    Yes, it is, which is why you've been told to use a custom flag. On top of that, information for the post author and information for a mod is unlikely to be identical. I wouldn't expect a comment on the answer and a flag text to be particularly similar.
    – Servy
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:34
  • 2
    @JasonC Mods are not shown comments on an answer from the flag queue. They may look at them if they feel a need to (say, for example, because the flag text states that there is a comment relevant to the problem at hand). Both types of flags are handled by moderators, but there are separate queues for each.
    – Servy
    Mar 19, 2014 at 19:39
3

Based on the other answers and discussion here, the correct course of action is as follows:

When is it helpful to raise a custom flag with explanation instead of simply raising a not-an-answer flag?

A general rule of thumb is: If you have to consider the original question in order to determine if an answer is not-an-answer then it is probably more helpful to raise a custom flag with an explanation instead. If you have to consider other answers, or even the comments on the answer itself, then it is almost certainly more helpful to raise a custom flag with an explanation.

While mods do their best to use sound judgment when reviewing flags, as Bill the Lizard writes:

If it's possible that someone who has no knowledge of the subject matter area (i.e., a moderator) might not be able to determine whether that post is an answer or not, it's better to spell it out for us.


Also, presuming the explanation can be phrase in such a way that it is helpful to the OP and other users in addition to being helpful to a mod, is it acceptable to simply leave an explanatory comment on the answer with a standard not-an-answer flag, instead of raising a custom flag?

Generally, no.

While an explanation in a comment can certainly help others, comments are not displayed to moderators by default, and in the interest of helping them work through flags as quickly as possible while still being effective, it's better to include it as a message in a custom flag (that's not to say a comment in addition wouldn't be helpful, of course). Reviewing comments is an interruption to moderator work-flow, and it is best to make the information as immediately visible as possible.

3
  • 2
    I would add: if figuring out the right course of action, not just whether or not it is an answer, requires looking at other answers or even comments, a custom flag is definitely a good idea.
    – Cascabel
    Mar 19, 2014 at 20:16
  • 1
    @jason Dupe or not, it's a useful discussion (though personally I lean toward thinking that it shouldn't count as a dupe of an FAQ answer). I think it's important to have the background information floating around somewhere :). But that's just my two cents!
    – WendiKidd
    Mar 20, 2014 at 13:08
  • Background information for anybody wondering where the FAQ points came from: After gathering the points discussed here and posting this answer, I requested an update to the FAQ to include these points (in a comment there, now deleted); it was added to the FAQ, and hence a baby bullet point was born.
    – Jason C
    Mar 20, 2014 at 14:51
1

Mods have, in the past, suggested that we skip Not an Answer and go straight to 'needs personal attention' when we have a story to tell.

1
  • 1
    Thanks; but that's exactly my point. I didn't have a story to tell, just like I don't have a story to tell on 99.9% of the other not-an-answer flags that I see. I looked at the answer, read the question, it had all the markings of being a comment, and I moved on. How do I know when a mod expects a story to be told?
    – Jason C
    Mar 19, 2014 at 18:50

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .