30

I asked a question and got a comment which hinted on a solution of the problem. Then I followed that hint and after some (but not much) work I solved the original issue.

I then commented that this solved my issue and suggested to the hint giver that he should post his hint as an answer (otherwise I was proposing to answer my question myself). He did, but just as a one-liner which was just a copy of the comment, so I suggested to extend his answer a little in order to be a valuable answer also to future users with the same problem.

He then removed his answer stub and all of his comments, leaving my comments without context (so I also removed my comments).

I then answered my question myself and gave credit to the hint giver in the text like:

Thanks to XY who by now removed his answer-stub and even all of his helpful comments—for whatever reason—for hinting on how to solve this.

This credit I felt was necessary to avoid the impression I solved the issue myself (in other words: I didn't want to take credit for sth I didn't deserve it for).

Now, another editor felt this line was not necessary and edited it out. I would like to keep it in and found nothing appropriate on MSO concerning this special case.

For pointers to some more specific guidelines covering this case or in lack of them just your opinions, I would be grateful.

18
  • 23
    If all you want to do is give credit, how about you just write: "Thanks to XY for hinting on how to solve this". Is there really a point to sharing the backstory?
    – yannis
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 15:50
  • I understand Yannis so that the "backstory" could be too chatty or deprecative. But I don't understand @BoltClock's comment on that.
    – Alfe
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 15:56
  • 24
    @Alfe: Oh I was just poking fun at the fact that some editors will edit out any sentence that dares to thank someone for something, regardless of context.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 15:57
  • 1
    I see. And yes, I had the same feeling (meaning: that wouldn't settle the discussion). Is there any rule to avoid saying thank you? Would make SO a paler place.
    – Alfe
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 15:58
  • @BoltClock Agreeing with Alfe's "paler place", and agreeing with your poking fun... how about a stated guideline? ...that the OP and answerers are allowed to say thanks, but others (commenters just saying thanks) will be removed, so as to not distract from content comments. Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 16:02
  • I'd rather say that adding thanks to a valuable post should be allowed while posting only thanks should be discouraged. In the aftermath I think it would have been a good solution to post my answer without giving a credit and then add the credits as the first comment. But now below the answer there is a discussion about giving the credit, so giving it below the discussion would not solve the issue anymore :-/
    – Alfe
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 16:07
  • Maybe they deleted everything for a reason? What if their employer found out they were spending more time on SO than working?
    – april4181
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 16:12
  • 4
    Clarification required for departed.
    – Compass
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 21:50
  • 2
    @Compass: I got that same thought. Perhaps better to find a synonym that does not coalesce with "our dear departed user..."
    – Jongware
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 21:52
  • 1
    Instead of suggesting that s/he extend the answer, you could have edited the answer with the additional info. Commented Dec 12, 2014 at 18:17
  • +1 to @DavidConrad, and that's exactly what I routinely do with answers to my questions. Instead of complaining, take action to remove the cause of complaint. My reasoning: the user has already helped me---for free---so why go on lecturing them on what constitutes an appropriate answer to my question, when I have all the means to make it that way? Doubly so if I was the one who enticed the user to write the answer. Commented Dec 12, 2014 at 20:05
  • Yeah, well, if I see just flaws, sure, I would improve an existing answer. If there is just one line, it isn't justified to hand over the points for a complete answer and additionally do all the work of writing the flesh of the answer as well. Then answering myself seems more appropriate.
    – Alfe
    Commented Dec 12, 2014 at 23:19
  • If i try to understand the position of the helpfull commenter i could imagine that i was willing to give a helpfull comment but not willing to put in effort to create a good answer. After beeing pushed into giving one OP pointed out i should put in more effort - which seemingly i did not want to do in the first place. Why not improving his answer by editing it and then upvoting and accepting it?
    – surfmuggle
    Commented Dec 13, 2014 at 20:49
  • I feel that edits should not essentially change the nature of a post. To add three or four more lines, adding an example etc. to a single line would certainly do that. In this case it effectively would be more my work than the other's. And that would open a new box of possible problems (like what if my explanation lacks quality and then gains downvotes). In this case an own answer just seems more appropriate. As a reviewer I probably also would not accept an edit which blew up a one-liner to a complete answer.
    – Alfe
    Commented Dec 13, 2014 at 22:49
  • 1
    I can only say that introducing major new content to the original contributor's answer is exactly what I have done several times. I was confident it was good content and wasn't afraid a bit it would cause any trouble. I accepted the answer and the result was a good-quality Q&A page with the least amount of noise. This is my first concern on SO in general. Commented Dec 14, 2014 at 8:22

2 Answers 2

22

That statement is providing attribution for content that was not your own that lead to the creation of the answer. It is in fact important that it be there.

For it to be a more appropriate citation it probably would be better to specify, at least to some degree, what it is that was provided by the other user. For example, thanks to X for suggesting the use of Y, so that it is clearer what of the content is your original content and what is not.

While you could try and make the notation a bit shorter, or emphasize it less, it's certainly appropriate for it to be in the answer.

21
  • 3
    But, most importantly, leave out the thanks. It's an extremely potent allergen.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 16:38
  • 4
    @BoltClock Are you still joking? Clearly it's appropriate here, in context.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 16:39
  • 6
    Kinda. It does seem like the best way to protect from knee-jerk edits and flags (based on what I've seen in my queue) is to not use the word "thanks", somehow.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 16:48
  • 11
    Something like "Based on a comment on the question by XY.." does the job and does not seem to trigger any knee-jerks. Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 18:00
  • Attribution to the author of an answer or comments which he has deleted does not seem reasonable to me. That is the situation Alfe described.
    – HansUp
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 18:10
  • 2
    @HansUp The fact that the author deleted the comments/answers does not give you the right to claim the content as your own original content. It's still not yours.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 18:12
  • 1
    I won't find it useful to read "Based on X's comment ...", then find nothing from X in the thread. But I didn't focus on the implied claim of ownership. Maybe that's the main point for everyone else, but it doesn't matter so much to me.
    – HansUp
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 18:19
  • 4
    @HansUp Plagiarism is not something to take lightly. It may not be a big deal for certain people in certain circumstances, but it can be a very big deal in others.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 18:20
  • 3
    @HansUp Yes, there is. Plagiarism is using another user's works as your own, without property citation. Deleting the source content doesn't automatically move all of that content into the public domain.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 18:24
  • 1
    @HansUp If two people independently create the same content, it is not plagiarism. If I was using your earlier content rather than coming up with it myself, then it would be plagiarism. If I had no idea that you independently came up with it, then I did not. You could have posted the same thing months ago, somewhere in the vast reaches of the internet, and not deleted it and almost certainly wouldn't have found it. Deleting the content doesn't not relinquish ownership. This is actually quite explicit. SE's licence (requiring attribution btw) remains for deleted content.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 18:33
  • 1
    @HansUp The fact that SE's licence applies is evidenced by the fact that if you try to delete something that the community finds valuable, SE can undelete it and continue to hold all of rights that were licensed away. The only way to relinquish ownership would be to explicitly state that you were relinquishing ownership.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 18:35
  • 2
    @HansUp I've brought this up before because I was confused. For me, it seems odd to point someone out specifically when they've explicitly deleted the content themselves. I would consider that a statement of "I don't want this attributed to me" even if the content is still licensed to Stack Exchange.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 20:15
  • 4
    It's pretty common to find comments referenced that are later deleted for various reasons - they're ephemeral after all - and I think it's correct to reference them, regardless of the reason deleted. @animuson I often delete comments of my own after they've served their purpose - I'm not deleting them due to wanting to avoid attribution, just cleaning up my comments.
    – Joe
    Commented Dec 10, 2014 at 22:22
  • 1
    @MarkoTopolnik It's worth noting here that this isn't a bunch of people saying that he necessarily has to cite you, and that it's wrong if he doesn't, but rather that he wants to cite you and others are trying to prohibit him from doing so. If he feels that your contribution was significant enough to merit a notation, I certainly wouldn't want to prohibit him from doing that.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 15:14
  • 4
    A cautious -1 for "It is in fact important that it be there". It's important to provide attribution if you're directly copying - or only slightly modifying - significant chunks of the text of someone else's work; failure to do so is plagiarism and may, depending upon the circumstances, be illegal copyright infringement. But it's not plagiarism (I feel) to base a full answer on someone else's hint at a solution without credit (unless that hint is some truly revolutionary insight, which seems unlikely here). I agree authors should always be free to give such credit, though.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 12, 2014 at 14:18
6

I had a part in prompting this post, in that I rolled back the edit in response to a flag, and left an edit note stating not to put the edit back in.

The flag gave me the impression there was a bit of a conflict about that, and the way I read the note about not knowing why the credited comments were deleted seemed a bit 'on edge'.


That said; I don't disagree with anything else said here, really. I do think the attribution was appropriate. I do think I may have expressed myself a bit too 'sternly' in my edit note, and I apologize for that. Seeing more of the history now, it probably would have been better for me to have simply reworded that notation you put in to feel more 'positive'.

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .