How to deal with hugely upvoted, bad and outdated answers?
Martijn was right in his answer/comment, which has 34 comment upvotes:
34 - You downvote, comment, provide a better answer, and sit back and let time and the community do the rest. – Martijn Pieters♦ Oct 1 '14 at 9:04
So that's:
- Comment
- Downvote
- Provide a better answer
- And wait...
So I'm going to expand on that in a full answer here - in a way, I hope, that addresses Stijn's concern, with 101 upvotes,
101 - @MartijnPieters with that score it could take a while. – Stijn Oct 1 '14 at 9:05
The problem is that some answers are hugely upvoted, bad, and outdated!
Sometimes, the reason they're at the top is because they're accepted.
In 2008, the site was new, and many low-effort, unsophisticated answers were easily accepted - and the questions became the canonical Q&A.
Sometimes the answer might not even be accepted, but it is just an over-confident or overly marked-up effort that seems clever but really isn't - and to recognize it requires a bit of sophisticated expertise.
What can we do about these kinds of answers within the pre-existing structure and guidelines?
I'll address some issues and provide some ideas to handle them.
Issue: Too Much Visual Noise
Sometimes people say, "Brilliant! Plus one! Love getting an answer!" Sometimes they follow up with "How does X work?" And other people respond in the comments. And some respond incorrectly. And some may even write brilliant short answers in a single comment. And someone else may even write a criticism, but the criticism is lost in all the noise - and the critical message doesn't get through.
Sometimes, after scrubbing away the chaff, what's left are some legitimate criticisms. Maybe there are already upvoted critical comments, but they're candy-coated and take careful reading to realize they actually mean the answer is wrong, instead of affirming the answer.
Ideas to resolve:
- Write a better, clearer, more direct criticism.
- Flag poorly written, but critical, comments that do not directly address the actual issues with it.
- Flag any other uncritical comments. If there is information in comments not already in an answer, put them in your better answer or append their substance to the answer current answer, and flag them as no-longer-needed.
Issue: Trivially obsolete code
Stack Overflow is about a decade old, and getting older. So is much of its most popular content. This means that new solutions sit at the bottom, while old solutions may be pinned at the top.
For example, Python 2 is reaching end-of-life soon, and most companies are transitioning to Python 3 now. Old code may not even run.
Idea to resolve:
- Update the code with a trivial edit (minimize lines changed please!)
- write a critique if the trivial edit is not accepted.
- write a better answer.
What is the rule for changing code? Usually don't, because it can change the meaning of the answer - and we don't do that.
However, the help page on editing says:
When should I edit posts? [...] To [...] add updates as the post ages
So, this would be the uncommon use-case. So, especially if you see opportunities in my answers, for example:
xrange(...)
to new code:
range(...) # xrange in Python 2
Note that this doesn't change the meaning, to my view, because xrange
becomes range
in Python 3. I for one would be happy to see those kinds of edits on my posts by people who really know what they're doing.
If the answerer or another user objects, fine, let them roll it back and be wrong.
Then flag poorly executed comments, comment yourself, downvote, write your better answer, and walk away.
Note that this suggestion requires careful judgment and domain knowledge, and the recognition that even though you may be "right" you may be going out on a limb. If you're wrong a lot (and even I am sometimes wrong about what I think an author will accept as an edit) then rethink this part of the strategy.
This issue for Python 2 & 3 is addressed in more detail with different opinions here, and I think the top several answers all have good points and all have points I'd quibble with: When is it permissible to update other people's answers for Python 3?
Issue: other meta issues
Sometimes a poor answer seems to be an answer, but it's not actually an answer. Maybe the question asks for an apple, but it provides an orange. Maybe it's actually a convoluted link-only answer.
And maybe we just haven't to this point in time actually identified the fact that on close inspection, it's not actually an answer.
Idea to resolve:
- Flag it on those grounds. Maybe we can side-step the entire thorny issue of its "badness" with a technicality - it's nice when that happens.
- If you're confused, ask about it on meta. Nothing like sunshine to wash away badness.
Will these suggestions get results?
I know they can. I have seen an accepted answer go from ~100 net upvotes to 0 (at one point losing about 2 points per day), whereupon the answerer asked a mod to delete the answer.
I have seen accepted answers be updated with small snippets of code from others, and as the answerer did not roll them back, the edits were accepted. I try to work with any editor of my own answers as well. But if the community objects, don't get involved in a rollback war.
I have seen cluttering Not-An-Answers eventually get deleted when intelligent people finally realize they're not actually answers.
Prescriptive Conclusion
So...
How to deal with hugely upvoted, bad and outdated answers?
Do this.
Do a good analysis of the issues with the whole Q&A - then, in this approximate order, do the following if apropos:
If the issue is trivially obsolete code, offer minimalist edits if you think the answerer will be accepting of them - if accepted, the problem may be solved! Give them 24 hours to a week. Otherwise, next...
Downvote it yourself.
Write your own critical comment, be clear, write plainly, and don't sugar-coat it. If the answer is still getting upvotes after your comment, either your assessment is wrong or your comment wasn't clear.
Flag all comments that don't clearly request improvement.
Write a much better answer (maybe don't publish it immediately - really polish it first, and who knows, the asker might unaccept the old and accept your new one. This has happened to me on several occasions - and why I'm taking my time with this answer now.).
Address the content from the comments you wish to flag in your answer.
For other meta problems with the answers, flag for a moderator or ask on meta if you're confused.
Note that while writing a much better answer is optional, not doing so may inhibit your ability to legitimately flag outdated comments, and hurts the overall strategy.