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In the spirit of trying to improve the quality of Stack Overflow, I've been looking for closed questions I think I know something about, to see whether they can be salvaged.

As we've discussed many times here, there's no reputation gaming incentive to do so, but I was in a good mood, and I don't really need points anyway.

My first attempt was this two-year old question which was "closed as not a real question" at the time, but it had a couple of answers (including one of mine).

I think the closure at the time was legitimate (no argument about that). The question was indeed rather vague, but I think this had more to do with the asker not necessarily being a native speaker.

The question was however sufficiently short and, although poorly introduced, it was really mainly about details about one method in the Java API (SSLContext.getInstance(String)). Hence, I reworded the question to try to make it more suitable, and voted to re-open it (although it had a delete vote in its past form).

I think the resulting question can be it on-topic, but that's of course debatable. (I'll admit being biased because one of the answer is mine, but I would suggest my answer at least adds value to Stack Overflow in that it provides direct references to three paragraphs in three different official documents as well as a link to the relevant source code, which an RTFM to the JSSE Reference Guide or API document it itself wouldn't give you.)

Within a couple of minutes following the edit, both answers were downvoted.

I get the impression that some people just have this idea that downvoting answers to off-topic or closed question is the right thing to do because it discourages answerers to answer such questions (and thus should discourage askers to ask that type of question). Is that just an impression? Is this the semi-officially recommended behaviour?

I was going to try to go through a number of old questions I have answered over the past four years to try to improve them when applicable. However, this sort of behaviour is certainly not encouraging any curating effort.

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    Do the answers answer the revised question?
    – JJJ
    Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 14:43
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    @Juhana, yes, I think so. Don't you?
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 14:45
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    I have no expertise on the subject matter, so I can't tell.
    – JJJ
    Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 14:46
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    The point is that sometimes if the question is poorly worded people might misinterpret and answer to something that wasn't asked. In that case it's valid to downvote after the question has been clarified.
    – JJJ
    Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 14:48
  • @Juhana, yes, you're absolutely right. This can happen. However, if you look at the revision history, the punchline of this question was "So I wanna know that the real meaning of the parameter protocol in SSLContext(String protocol)", which ends up being a rather straightforward request for clarification on that particular point of the API. (I could have misinterpreted this, of course, but it doesn't seem too ambiguous, even for someone who wouldn't know this part of the API, IMO.)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 14:52
  • I wouldn't have adapted the question in such a way my answer no longer made sense. (Although adapting a question to make your answer fit should not be done, of course.)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 14:54
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    It looks really good now, kudos for the effort. Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 15:44
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    @Juhana - yes, they do answer the question (both original and revised). Bruno's answer also includes valuable insight that is not readily apparent in the Java docs. Namely, you have to call setEnabledProtocols with the actual protocols you want (its not sufficient to call getInstance("TLS")). I filed a security bug against Oracle for that behavior a couple of years ago.
    – jww
    Commented Jul 13, 2014 at 0:30
  • @Bruno FYI I voted to close and delete in Oct 2012, and it was thoroughly deserved as the question was at the time, but it seems to have only just reached a quota. I also upvoted your answer at the same time. The other answer is poor quality and I am about to downvote it.
    – user207421
    Commented Jul 13, 2014 at 2:05
  • @EJP, indeed, I was assuming you hadn't cast any vote on this yesterday. Your votes were justified back then and I have no problem with that. What was annoying was the votes that came straight after my edit, once the question had shown signs of recent activity. Even once undeleted (but left closed) by Brad Larson yesterday, there was a point where there were 4 votes to re-open, but another new vote to delete, without any justification, despite the fact I'd left a comment pointing to this Meta question. I'm all in favour of closing bad questions, but some users just seem to be trigger happy.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 13, 2014 at 14:10
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    @Bruno I totally support your efforts. I believe that there is a lot of room to improve the general mood and attitute to make S.O. more welcoming, and taking the time to improve other's questions can go a long way, even if there is no point reward in that.
    – ffflabs
    Commented Jul 13, 2014 at 14:18
  • @Bruno The question is now open and the answers are positively evaluated. I just wonder, does it mean that you'll continue? Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 11:36
  • @Trilarion, good question. I don't really know myself. I tend to participate on SO when I have a few spare minutes, typically waiting for something to compute or having a quick break. The associated involvement on Meta.SO seems more time consuming and much less "rewarding"...
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 12:04
  • @Bruno Just to gather more statistical results maybe try the improvement of three more questions and see if your can improve them without going to meta.SE. If yes, continue, because as you say you enjoy improving SO, if not, do something else. :) Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 12:06
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    @Rendall, I think it's a rare occurrence, possibly too statistically insignificant to detect automatically well. Sometimes, cross downvotes between users are not necessarily malicious. I've had the experience once. We both had answered the same question and downvoted each other. I had by pure coincidence spotted another answer of his that was wrong and downvoted it too. It took a couple of days of comments to point out the mistakes (links to specs/docs, ...). All answers involved were fixed/clarified in the end, but an automatic algorithm could have seen that as revenge, when it wasn't.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 15:55

2 Answers 2

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I get the impression that some people just have this idea that downvoting answers to off-topic or closed question is the right thing to do because it discourages answerers to answer such questions (and thus should discourage askers to ask that type of question). Is that just an impression? Is this the semi-officially recommended behavior?

Yes, some people believe this. I am not one of them, nor are most of the community managers I've talked to about this.

I believe that answers should only be voted on based on their technical content and how well they answer the question at hand. I think that downvoting good answers left to what someone feels is a bad question will ultimately do more harm than good, by discouraging or driving away experts while doing nothing about those asking bad questions. There are better ways to address the influx of bad questions by focusing on the questions and the askers.

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    I agree, but on a secondary point, do you think this question (which has now been deleted, although one of the delete voters voted to undelete shortly afterwards), was unsuitable for SO in its re-written form?
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 15:16
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    @Bruno - I like your edits, and it seems decent enough to at least have a discussion about, so I've undeleted it. I may defer to others with more subject matter expertise as to whether to reopen it, but it reads reasonably well to me.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 15:20
  • Thank you. That makes sense. In my experience it can take days for something to be re-opened (especially on low-traffic tags), and sometimes re-open votes expire before anyone has given a good look at it, but we'll see.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 15:27
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    The downvote tooltip says "this answer is not useful", but it doesn't say to whom or for what, which I think is the core of the debate: to the asker, to the community, for the overall quality of the SE network? Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 16:08
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    Some of us take the (nuanced?) position that answers to questions that would be rude/obnoxious/LMGTFY-worthy in any internet context should be downvoted for the good of the site, but that answers to questions that are off-topic but show a degree of netizenship should be left alone. That is I try to discourage rewarding jerks but assume the goodwill of both asker and answerer where there is room for it. YMMV. Commented Jul 12, 2014 at 18:07
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I know Brad Larson's answer plays into the "semi-official" part of this question. But from an observer of this phenomena I couldn't help but answer as well.

It is a disservice to downvote answers solely because there is something wrong with the question regardless of what is wrong with it. If the answer provides value, then there is no reason to downvote it.

Over the years, this topic has been debated multiple times. The reason that this still occurs in my opinion is because the status quo has gone both ways at different times - sometimes going with the approach of downvoting will discourage answers and thus discourage that type of question.

The reason that is no longer the suggested course of action is because that approach has been proven to fail. Taking a negative approach to good answers is not a solution.

There has been a lot of work lately on making sure the question end of this equation has oversight. That is where gains can be made, but punishing people for posting valuable content is just flat out not helping.


Optimizing for pearls not sand - Stack Exchange blog

We feel that the world is awash in questions, but not answers. Answers are the real unit of work in any Q&A system. Therefore, the only logical thing to do is to maximize the happiness and enjoyment of answerers. If this means aggressively downvoting or closing unworthy and uninteresting questions, so be it. Without a community of people willing to answer questions, it really doesn’t matter if there are questions at all, does it?

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    I'm surprised downvoting answers to bad questions (irrespectively of the quality of the answers) was ever recommended, even only semi-officially. (Maybe I was mostly ignoring Meta.SO all that time...). The voting guidelines now say "When should I vote down? Use your downvotes whenever you encounter an egregiously sloppy, no-effort-expended post, or an answer that is clearly and perhaps dangerously incorrect.", which is what I thought had always been the case. I'm getting the impression that this type of downvote is relatively new.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 17:57
  • @Bruno - It was towards the beginning of 2013 when it was really examined. There were a lot of out of the box ideas being thrown around trying to wrangle in an ever expanding close vote queue. Down voting answers was one of them, and it didn't help the problem at all. All it did was discourage valuable users from answering or trying to help.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:03

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