98

I propose that custom avatars should be unlocked as a reputation privilege, say 10 rep similarly to the other "new user restrictions" privileges.

This will stop people "avatar-bombing" the chat rooms where they join the chat rooms with brand new accounts that often have offensive avatars. The default of a gravatar could be used.

Edit: for those interested ThiefMaster has posted a feature-request to meta.SE regarding the problem here.

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  • 13
    we are currently seeing said bombing in a few rooms right now. cough cough Mods help?
    – rlemon
    Sep 4, 2014 at 19:39
  • 7
    isn't there a better solution to this problem? Say, not letting sub-20 user avatars show on the face wall? Sep 4, 2014 at 19:40
  • 9
    Don't remove something for the majority when a minority exploit it. That still won't solve the bombing problem. Sep 4, 2014 at 19:40
  • 3
    @JonathanDrapeau I think it's a good idea for an unlockable to begin with. It would also make spotting new users in questions easier and let us tune our comments asking for clarification to better accomodate them Sep 4, 2014 at 19:41
  • @JonathanDrapeau it's 1 upvote. One upvote does not remove anything for the majority. Sep 4, 2014 at 19:42
  • 1
    Getting to 10 isn't hard and anyone wanting to do it wouldn't be stopped by that. Sep 4, 2014 at 19:42
  • 1
    It would stop those too lazy to go fetch 10 reputation, which would be better than nothing. Sep 4, 2014 at 19:43
  • 3
    The current situation would probably be easier handled if my previous feature request was implemented :p Sep 4, 2014 at 19:43
  • 12
    @JonathanDrapeau yes but the "advantage" of avatar-bombing is being able to fill the chat rooms with several offensive avatars at the same time. If the user has to find 10 rep for each new user then it'll soon slow them down.
    – Ffisegydd
    Sep 4, 2014 at 19:43
  • You said it, slow them down, not stop them. So no, that isn't a good solution to stop them. Sep 4, 2014 at 19:44
  • 6
    That's what all the other new-user restrictions are for as well, would you say we should remove those because ten rep doesn't stop anybody @JonathanDrapeau?
    – eddie_cat
    Sep 4, 2014 at 19:45
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    @JanDvorak I would up it to 100, that would really slow down to a crawl any bombing. Sep 4, 2014 at 19:46
  • 3
    In the meantime, try this out (thoroughly untested): chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/18695580#18695580
    – Zirak
    Sep 4, 2014 at 20:12
  • 4
    All I can say is, maybe we shouldn't have told Adam Barak how to work around the previous avatar heuristic: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/270333/19679
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Sep 4, 2014 at 20:57
  • 2
    This seems pretty silly to me. How much emotional damage can one person inflict upon another with a 32x32 pixels image? Grow a thicker skin! The internet is filled with filth and trolls. You can't police it. Let it go! If the internet disturbs you, don't use it!
    – raven
    Sep 5, 2014 at 23:39

5 Answers 5

33

I'm all for this or something similar - I've already made two somewhat related requests regarding access control for chat users:

Another possible option (that I'd imagine should be quite easy to do) is just make the minimum join requirement be 20 since someone can't write to a room until then they don't need to be present in the room, and if they want to read up on stuff, they can access the transcript.

In short: If someone < 20 rep attempts to join chat, don't let them, instead redirect them to the latest transcript instead.

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  • 1
    I've decided to accept this answer in order to highlight Jon's alternative suggestion, where users with < 20 rep are re-directed to the public transcript and not allowed access to the rooms at all. This will continue to allow low-rep users to read the public contents of the room while seriously slowing down people who try to "avatar-bomb".
    – Ffisegydd
    Sep 5, 2014 at 11:03
  • 1
    If someone gets a sock puppet to upvote some nonsense so they get 20 rep easily then they will be publicly declaring their sock puppet account, meaning their sock puppet could then be handled by the mods too (if it's obviously a sock puppet, etc).
    – Ffisegydd
    Sep 5, 2014 at 11:04
35

In response to the recent (and current) hitler and swastika avatar spam, there is nothing more I could say to this than simply: yes. There is no hindering downside to this. Please make it happen asap. I'm sick of trolls being able to spam us so easily.

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    There's a downside for the vast, vast majority of new users who now aren't allowed to select an avatar because a couple people decided to troll chat. That's just not going to happen.
    – Adam Lear StaffMod
    Sep 4, 2014 at 23:32
  • 13
    @AnnaLear: Is that really a problem though? So a new user has to wait a bit before they can select an avatar? (full-disclosure: yeah, I still haven't bothered with an avatar, so maybe by view's a little bias here). Sep 5, 2014 at 13:35
  • 5
    You could always show the avatar to the user himself (and to mods) while showing the identicon to anyone else until he has let's say 25 rep. That way you could let the user choose an avatar initially but only unlock it for everyone once he reached the necessary rep. Sep 5, 2014 at 20:45
  • @ThiefMaster I like that idea. Sep 5, 2014 at 20:47
  • why swastika avatar is offensive? o.O
    – itachi
    Sep 6, 2014 at 11:18
  • @itachi granted it's historical usage I think that's a pretty obvious answer you're looking for. Sep 9, 2014 at 14:07
  • This would hurt a new user who is trying to upload an avatar because he has been assigned a swastika-like identicon. Feb 14, 2015 at 4:35
30

I don't think this is an efficient solution to the problem. While it doesn't really inconvenience new users, I think adding this distinction could be confusing.

A much simpler solution would be to simply not show the avatars of users that don't have enough rep to write in chat. That way the malicious users would have to gather enough rep for each sock, which takes more time than a mod needs to destroy that sock.

5
  • I think 20 rep is still low, I would really up that. Sep 4, 2014 at 19:58
  • 12
    @JonathanDrapeau It's enough to seriously slow down any malicious user, and coupling this to the chat privilege itself seems to be the most intuitive option. It takes almost no time to destroy a user for a mod, you don't need much of a rep barrier to make the whole approach inefficient Sep 4, 2014 at 20:00
  • 1
    I hope so and that's the kind of solution I would like rather than what is being proposed. Sep 4, 2014 at 20:08
  • 1
    I think this seems like a better solution. Sep 5, 2014 at 13:36
  • 1
    So why does the system show the avatars of mute users in the first place? There may have been some reason that is forgotten? Sep 6, 2014 at 11:40
1

Fix that chat rooms show everyone profile's image. Make it so that the profile's image show only for people with 100+ rep (100 also being related to chat room, would fit well together, create chat rooms and show avatar in all chat rooms) rather than the ability to change your profile's picture.

Those under 100 would either have the same avatar or the one they were "given" at the creation of their profile.

1
  • 1
    I wouldn't suggest a fixed avatar, that'll just be confusing in a conversation (I personally use avatars to identify people quicker than reading their names)
    – Ffisegydd
    Sep 4, 2014 at 19:56
-11

I disagree. There's gotta be a better way to fix this than lock every new user's avatar to a generic image. 99.9% of people never spam chat, never cause problems. This solution is proposing that we throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Something along the lines of integrating something like our Q&A-site spamram into chat sounds like a better approach to me. Balpha's been working on beefing up a few things in chat lately, so I'll ping him to see if he has any other ideas on this.

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  • 3
    Maybe a 'nobody' icon displayed in chat until they get the necessary 20 rep to comment in chat then?
    – user289086
    Sep 5, 2014 at 0:00
  • I think this is a perfectly sane idea.
    – Seth
    Sep 5, 2014 at 1:37
  • @Seth It would work alright for chat.so and chat.meta (unless someone sets up a couple socks for easy upvotes), but not as much for chat.se since the latter is driven by network-wide rep. It would slow people down, but that's about it. I favor harsher approaches - throttle/block people outright and we don't have to worry about fiddling with avatars.
    – Adam Lear StaffMod
    Sep 5, 2014 at 1:50
  • @AnnaLear It isn't really needed on chat.SE, there's never a lack of moderators ;)
    – Seth
    Sep 5, 2014 at 1:56
  • @Seth Eh, even moderators there still could use better tools. ;)
    – Adam Lear StaffMod
    Sep 5, 2014 at 2:00
  • @AnnaLear Indeed, better chat moderation tools would be very helpful, but, since users can't do anything to stop/kick these spammers on their own, better mod tools isn't going to help if no mods are around, which is what happened earlier today.
    – Seth
    Sep 5, 2014 at 2:01
  • There are things we could do - give "kick" some teeth, give room owners more power to reduce the need for diamond mods, feed signal from users into a more robust throttling system, etc. Just hiding/restricting avatars stops nothing especially if we're talking about punishing all users who may not even use chat for the actions of a couple people. To use a hyperbolic analogy, this proposal is like declaring martial law in an entire town because somebody shoplifted some chips after 9pm.
    – Adam Lear StaffMod
    Sep 5, 2014 at 2:10
  • Anyone determined to attack chat can trivially gain rep. 10 rep on a new profile? Keep a sock handy and post gibberish on any question. It'd take effort (and moderators) to notice/sort that out. We need to actually make chat moderation better, and I'd rather spend time on that. (cc @seth, see this ad previous comments.)
    – Adam Lear StaffMod
    Sep 5, 2014 at 2:12
  • 2
    Your example is pretty extreme, a) because this has happened before and will happen again b) because it wasn't anywhere near 9 PM, although, like I said earlier, I think it would be better if we did what Mad Scientist suggested. Gaining 10 rep is somewhat trivial, but gaining 10 rep on 20 accounts is not. I'm all for making chat better though, especially giving room owners more ahem ownership.
    – Seth
    Sep 5, 2014 at 2:15
  • 2
    @Seth Well, I did say it was hyperbolic. :) The 9pm thing was just a part of the example, not really related to what happened today... The point was to illustrate the narrow edge case we're trying to address here by blocking every new user's avatar changes. Gaining 10 rep on 20 accounts is trivial when you have a sockpuppet with 15 rep ready to go. Out of all the suggestions in this post (mine included), I think what Jon Clements is proposing has the best "effort vs payoff" ratio. Doesn't address the "rep is trivial" aspect, but also doesn't hamstring the vast innocent majority.
    – Adam Lear StaffMod
    Sep 5, 2014 at 2:40
  • 8
    Your logic is persuasive, but inconsistent. We currently block all new users from posting images and more than two hyperlinks in a question in order to stave off spam. This is the exact rationale given on the New User Restrictions privilege page. We also forbid new users from posting comments, at least in part to control spam (but admittedly also to drive home that the point is to post an answer). Sep 5, 2014 at 5:07
  • 7
    I agree with you that my proposal is throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but IMO having a custom avatar isn't exactly much of a baby :P you could just as easily view it as a reward, rather than a punishment, along the lines of "Oh awesome I've got X rep, that means I can customise my avatar, sweet!". Incidentally is there any chance we could hear about what Balpha has planned for chat? Or will that be announced in due course?
    – Ffisegydd
    Sep 5, 2014 at 7:59
  • @Ffisegydd I'm hazy on the specifics, but there's work happening around this, for example: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/229905/….
    – Adam Lear StaffMod
    Sep 5, 2014 at 16:10
  • 3
    @AnnaLear what about letting them pick icons but not showing them in chat? Sep 5, 2014 at 19:58

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